Cesc Fàbregas

[The Skipper 20,593]

He has improved his defensive side in recent games since his first half horror show against Swansea, he will never be particully good at that side of the game, but he needs to be adequate if he wants to be long term pivot player.

IMO he is adequate and has been for most of the season, people tend to be over exaggerate how weak he is or has been defensively this season.

[Tomo 21,681]

IMO he is adequate and has been for most of the season, people tend to be over exaggerate how weak he is or has been defensively this season.

He has definitely stepped that side up in recent games however the Leicester, Everton and especially Swansea games I had concerns, when Neville analysed him on MNF, the way the Swansea midfield were playing passes round him was almost identical to what players do to Juan.

However I am confident he will step that side up, but the Swansea first half especially did nothing to ease my initial fears.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

For me the answer is simple to decide who's better: Would I trade Cesc for Luka? the answer for me is no. So regardless of who's better in what, I think Cesc is better for Chelsea and that's all that matters to me. Mata is better than a lot of players, but he isn't better for Chelsea. It's not only about individual quality, but how they fit in the system. Modric would fit here just fine, it's just that Cesc fits better... We need a Cesc more than we need a Luka.

Agree with Cesc, but I disagree if you said Mata isn't better for Chelsea. He just doesn't fit with Mourinho style.

[Nike 373]

Chelsea fans love Cesc because chelsea haven't had a true/good CM since Ballack.

However, I still rate thiago, koke, alonso, xavi above cesc.... However, cesc is better than anyone in the epl, granted yaya is kind of drifting in form since his brothers death....

[Nike 373]

IMO he is adequate and has been for most of the season, people tend to be over exaggerate how weak he is or has been defensively this season.

IDK, Cesc kind of reminded me of Mata defensively, people would dribble right through them like their not even there.....

However, defensively, Cesc is miles better than Mata is and always was.

[iseah100 5,612]

Chelsea fans love Cesc because chelsea haven't had a true/good CM since Ballack.

However, I still rate thiago, koke, alonso, xavi above cesc.... However, cesc is better than anyone in the epl, granted yaya is kind of drifting in form since his brothers death....

No fucking way. Xavi is way past it. Cesc is just better than Xabi.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Incomparable, Cesc is Cesc.

[Barbara 15,149]

Agree with Cesc, but I disagree if you said Mata isn't better for Chelsea. He just doesn't fit with Mourinho style.

No, Mata doesn't fit an English team unless the team is set up around him, it has nothing to do with Mourinho. Why he's on verge of being sold by United and barely made a difference at their side since he's there?

He's suitable for another style, English league isn't the one for him. Even with all the amazing things he brings to the team, he also brings incredible liabilities. We've been through this discussion many times, and tbh, I'm not interested in having it again. We can agree to disagree.

[didierforever 7,349]

No fucking way. Xavi is way past it. Cesc is just better than Xabi.

agree about xaVi. not so about xaBi.

[Mechromancer 262]

Not sure what makes him a better midfielder in general. I agree that Modric is better tactically in defence, but Cesc is better tactically in attack: he reads the game better, sees other player's runs better and makes runs himself, knows when to pass, the weight of the final ball. Modric is nowhere as good in the final third. Unless you're a defensive midfielder, contributing to attack and being more productive is always more important than being just tactically solid. Because in football that's what counts and wins matches: goals.

Interesting. I don't believe that. I mean, just see his productivity in Barcelona. Fucking amazing, right? Better than the others. So why they sell the guy? Because he is ugly and doesn't sell shirts? No. Because he can't defend? No. Because he plays worse than the others? Yes. That positional attack demands a great technique and a great tactical ability. And Cesc has a debt with the movement in front of the ball.

You are good if you play good. See a historical player like Zidane. His numbers are trash, right? Mata is better. Not for Mourinho, maybe. But that's the thing.

The productivity is overrated. Ramsey and Huntelaar approves my post.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

No, Mata doesn't fit an English team unless the team is set up around him, it has nothing to do with Mourinho. Why he's on verge of being sold by United and barely made a difference at their side since he's there?

He's suitable for another style, English league isn't the one for him. Even with all the amazing things he brings to the team, he also brings incredible liabilities. We've been through this discussion many times, and tbh, I'm not interested in having it again. We can agree to disagree.

Ok

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Interesting. I don't believe that. I mean, just see his productivity in Barcelona. Fucking amazing, right? Better than the others. So why they sell the guy? Because he is ugly and doesn't sell shirts? No. Because he can't defend? No. Because he plays worse than the others? Yes. That positional attack demands a great technique and a great tactical ability. And Cesc has a debt with the movement in front of the ball.

You are good if you play good. See a historical player like Zidane. His numbers are trash, right? Mata is better. Not for Mourinho, maybe. But that's the thing.

The productivity is overrated. Ramsey and Huntelaar approves my post.

Productivity is overrated? Tell it to Barcelona fans and their board. Their main complaint about Cesc was that his productivity in the second half of the season wasn't as excellent as in the first. They relied on him to be productive because Xavi and Iniesta aren't productive and someone actually has to do the job of creating to let Messi score all the goals. Now that Cesc is gone, Iniesta's poor form is continuing and since Rakitic isn't particularly creative, Barcelona fans are starting to realize they miss the creativity. Rakitic is tactically very good, but it helps very little when they need to create and they can't rely only on Messi to do all the job. Because of the lack of creativity in midfield, Messi has been playing deeper and creating for others this season.

And they didn't sell Cesc because he sucked as a midfielder; it was more complicated than that. He was their best midfielder in the first half of the season. He had a dip in form in the second half and was booed by the fans. He had probably had enough and got sick of being made the main scapegoat by the fans and the media and wanted to leave. Barcelona needed money for Suarez anyway. Barcelona's farewell letter, in which they badmouthed Cesc, actually speaks volumes. They didn't part on good terms. It is possible Cesc forced his way out or both parties mutually wanted to get rid of each other.

Ramsey? The same Ramsey who has no discipline and goes forward all the time, determined to score? Not a good example I'm afraid.

If productivity is unimportant, what does win matches? Playing well is great, but if it doesn't win matches, if there's no end product, there's less value in that if the team loses. Direct contributions--goals&assists--are very important, no matter which way you spin it. Messi and Ronaldo win Ballon d'or year after year for scoring 40+ goals for a reason.

I'm sure if Cesc has 4-5 quiet games in which he just distributes the ball in the midfield without being creative, a lot of people here will start to complain. Actually, I remember someone likening him to Gareth Barry for safe passes in the game against Leicester. And it was 1 frigging game.

Productivity isn't very important for some midfielders, but Cesc got the reputation of one of the most creative midfielders in the world when he was at Arsenal. No one expects Modric to be productive. No one expects Iniesta to be very productive(at least not the current Iniesta). But people expect Cesc to be productive. Different expectations.

Going back to the point I disputed, Modric isn't better than Fabregas in "practically every thing." That statement was very erroneous. Modric is better tactically in defence. Cesc is better in everything else: attacking, creative passing, creating clear-cut chances, splitting defences with through balls, shooting, versatility, vision. So how is Modric better "in everything"? Are you seriously claiming that a midfielder who creates 28 scoring chances for his team is inferior to the midfielder who creates 10 chances? It's not even about productivity here. It's about creativity. Modric is not as creative as Fabregas.

Though I don't think they should even be compared because they offer somewhat different things. Modric is an excellent midfielder, but he's never been among the most productive playmakers in Europe. If Cesc's productivity was as poor as Modric's, he would have been eaten alive. It's more correct to compare Modric to Pirlo rather than Fabregas. Players like Cesc are actually very rare. There aren't many creative and productive world class CMs around. Koke comes to mind.

[Mechromancer 262]

The board and his fans can't do so much. They don't sign the guy because he is a middlefield who can do 20 assist in a season, i don't believe that. They want domain, not numbers. And in three years, the best of him is in the striker position. The old ones are better. That says a lot. Even in the national team, the most dominant in the last lustrum.

Be an amazing player with a great productivity is one thing, be a good player with a great productivity is another. Koke is a great example of that; in my opinion, a good launcher and not more. Even a player like Song do 14 assist in one season. And that's their best argument.

Like i said, see a player like Zidane, who won a Ballon d'Or, by the way. His numbers can't be an argument, right?

Even for the striker the productivity isn't the best argument. I think in Huntelaar, Cavani, Gómez... ¡Chicharito!(yeah, maybe not).

And Modric is better, yes, technically. If his objective is creates more chances and be more free, maybe his numbers can grow up. Why not? With his wonderful partners is possible. He has the ability to do everything. But his team no need that and isn't his great value. Is more than that.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Mechromancer, on 02 Oct 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

The board and his fans can't do so much. They don't sign the guy because he is a middlefield who can do 20 assist in a season, i don't believe that. They want domain, not numbers. And in three years, the best of him is in the striker position. The old ones are better. That says a lot. Even in the national team, the most dominant in the last lustrum.

Be an amazing player with a great productivity is one thing, be a good player with a great productivity is another. Koke is a great example of that; in my opinion, a good launcher and not more. Even a player like Song do 14 assist in one season. And that's their best argument.

Like i said, see a player like Zidane, who won a Ballon d'Or, by the way. His numbers can't be an argument, right?

Even for the striker the productivity isn't the best argument. I think in Huntelaar, Cavani, Gómez... ¡Chicharito!(yeah, maybe not).

And Modric is better, yes, technically. If his objective is creates more chances and be more free, maybe his numbers can grow up. Why not? With his wonderful partners is possible. He has the ability to do everything. But his team no need that and isn't his great value. Is more than that.

You do realize that creating big chances and racking up assists isn't just a matter of technical ability, right? If it was, Willian would have been (one of) our most creative players and assisters. It takes excellent vision, decision-making, the ability to provide the final ball(not the same thing as general passing ability), through balls, and the ability to read the game in attack. You also do realize that Cesc is playing in the pivot, in a deep midfield role that is as far from free as it can get, right?

But then again, I remember how you once claimed Isco at 20 was more decisive and effective than Fabregas at the age of 20. Once again, your opinion is based on nothing but suppositions, not facts.

P.S. The Zidane argument is just getting silly. It comes up every time to defend a player who shows no productivity. Willian has a great technical ability, great teamwork and little productivity. Let's give him a Ballon d'Or. And Zidane's end product was still much better than Modric's.

[Dion 2,476]

Not to mention that Zidade would would come up huge in matches that really mattered. His WC performances are a testament to that.

IMO, Fabregas is better than Modric and it's not even close. Comparing Fabregas to Koke is also silly. Koke has began his world class performances like the other day, Fabregas has been doing it for several years.

[meetdoscar 335]

Fabregas has been an excellent CM since modric was wearing diapers never mind they are almost of same age. It has been very clear in the last decade that xavi and pirlo were of a different class but also that fabregas would succeed them and so it is no surprise that fabregas is currently the best CM in the world. Call it form or whatever you like but it has since been obvious that after xavi and pirlo you have cesc to succeed. Modric is not as good as cesc and never has been whether at spurs or madrid.

[Victor Von Doom 258]

Cesc isn't better than Modric at shooting @Daniel1980

[Daniel1980 1,425]

^^ Not sure what it proves. I can give you as many examples of Fabregas's goals--and there will be a lot more goals. Modric scored 18 goals in all competitions in 2009-2014. Cesc scored 59 in the same period, playing the majority of the time as a CM. He's a more prolific scorer.

Enjoy, if you can bear watching Arsenal: