Spike 12,049 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Mata wasn't just let go due to his defensive work rate. Mata showed more effort defensively than Hazard. Jose preferred Oscar as the starter; Mata wasn't happy just being the second option and was let go. Similarly, I think if we had Ozil and Oscar became 2nd choice, he'd probably want out and Chelsea would grant him his wish.Whaaaaat? Hazard works far harder in defence than bloody Juan Mata. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantdeville 195 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Whaaaaat? Hazard works far harder in defence than bloody Juan Mata.In his (Chelsea?) defense (no pun intended), I sort of interpreted him saying that Mata worked hard in defense in a different way. I remember one of Mata's first games for United some of the commentators were analyzing the shape of the United team as it absorbed pressure on a few occasions, and they picked out and highlighted Mata on the reel and it was kinda funny to watch as he scrambled around desperately trying to find someone to mark. I mean, love the guy to death, but jumping into Moyes system for him it was like watching him chase a chicken around the pitch. He was turning in circles, closing down needless spaces, marking players who were already marked, it was just funny. His effort = hugeHis effective defending = much less hugeHe definitely expended a lot of energy, it was just...misdirected, to put it lightly. Idk, maybe he's gotten better lately. I think you are right, though, Hazard was a bit more effective in defending, albeit didn't work as hard. The Skipper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meetdoscar 335 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Why is great speed so important when he can travel with a great pass. I think we finally got our own pirlo because as fabregas gets older and looses more pace he will naturally adapt to DLP just like pirlo and lampard to a lesser extent. He will be here for a long time for sure because of this adaptability. I think he will give oscar adequate competition also in the no. 10 role for a few seasons then settle permanently at DLP later which is what I think he was brought in for.Fabregas- World class vision and passing, scores 10 goals or more, adequate pace, adequate pressing, scores with both feet and head, good midfield technique in general, tactically versatile.Oscar- World class pressing and tactical awareness, Adequate vision and passing, scores 10 goals or more, adequate pace, adequate midfield technique, scores with both feet and head.Matic- World class tackling with feet and head, world class tactical awarewness in front of defense. Adequate passing and vision. Scores 4 or 5 goals a season.I think none of our midfielders is complete in all aspects(but who is anyway) but the three make up a very, very conplete and balanced midfield. I expect our strongest line up to be as below.---------Cech/courtoise(who cares)----Ivanovic---Cahill---Terry---Left back-------------------Matic---------------------Fabregas-------------------------------Oscar-----------------Willian------------------------Hazard---------------Diego Costa----------- The Skipper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post! kellzfresh 7,229 Posted July 3, 2014 Popular Post! Share Posted July 3, 2014 A lot of people have forgotten how good this lad was in the PL. He was one of the best in the PL, like a top 3 player. He's going to be immense for us.He was truly immense in the EPL. I used to see him as the best passer I had seen in the EPL since I started watching. So much that I called him "Fabrepass" I just hope barca havent ruined him Daniel1980, Barbara, The Skipper and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzchap 8,966 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 He was truly immense in the EPL. I used to see him as the best passer I had seen in the EPL since I started watching. So much that I called him "Fabrepass" I just hope barca havent ruined himIf anything his time at Barca will make him more determined to prove they fucked up by letting him go This guy could be amazing for us The Skipper and kellzfresh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post! Daniel1980 1,425 Posted July 3, 2014 Popular Post! Share Posted July 3, 2014 He was truly immense in the EPL. I used to see him as the best passer I had seen in the EPL since I started watching. So much that I called him "Fabrepass" I just hope barca havent ruined himI don't think Barcelona ruined him. I've watched quite a few of Barcelona's games over the past few years, and he's still a master at through balls, his vision and passing are still as great, and defensively he's actually not as bad as some people think. Certainly better than Mata. He does quite a bit of clearances.Barcelona's tiki-taka limited him and he somewhat stopped doing riskier passes, but it's not really surprising. At Barcelona losing possession is the worst kind of sin. For the same reason, Sanchez stopped dribbling so much at Barcelona as he did in Serie A and does for Chile. As for his lack of speed, I'm actually glad he never depended on his speed. It means that even when he gets older, his form won't change much--certainly not as drastically as the form of the players who depend on their pace. Players like Pirlo and Fabregas don't need blistering pace. Their vision and passing are their main strengths and those don't become worse with age. I'm glad we got Cesc, though I used to hate him just a few years ago. Players with world class vision are very rare. That kind of vision can't be taught, you either have it or you don't. Barbara, The Skipper, bababoom and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manpe 10,861 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 What about the fact that he's slow?I thought we would play a fast agreesive high tempo game with a lot of pressing?Pace has little to nothing to do with the tempo of the game. Ramires is one of the quickest out there, but is our game really faster with him? Doubt it, his decisions and technique often pull our offensive tempo down despite him being able to run like Gump. The ball is always faster than any player, and Fabregas is exactly that - a ball playing midfielder, not a runner, because an accurate ball travels faster and poses more danger than simply trying to run through things. Our tempo will be quicker with him, mainly because hopefully we'll be able to stick more passes together and not be limited to giving the ball to Ivanovic for a deep cross.Excited. kellzfresh, Muzchap and Barbara 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sainttourist 68 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Xabi Alonso was a heart of Jose RM and he is much slower than Cesc. You don't need everybody run, someone should give ball to run for, and Cesc is one of the best at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono 791 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 On his instagram it says "Central Midfielder" for Chelsea fc so that means he probably isn't playing the #10 role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DYC. 7,542 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Yes but he can't defend, hes a bit lazy like Ozil.We got rid of kdb and mata because of that.As much as fans like to think they know what goes on, you and I don't know why Mata and KDB were sold.Mourinho is a huge Ozil fan, he's a big fan of Sneijder as well. They're both very poor defensively.Edit: Fabregas is comfortably much better defensively than Ozil, Mata and KDB btw. CHOULO19, Peace., The Skipper and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyikolajevics 2,700 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Yes but he can't defend, hes a bit lazy like Ozil.We got rid of kdb and mata because of that.KDB and Mata were already squad members, but it was Mourinho's decision to sign Fabregas. It would be ridiculous if we got rid of him in january. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1chelsea 864 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 KDB and Mata were already squad members, but it was Mourinho's decision to sign Fabregas. It would be ridiculous if we got rid of him in january. Like van gaal getting rid of fellani? That will not happen this Jose choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post! Daniel1980 1,425 Posted July 3, 2014 Popular Post! Share Posted July 3, 2014 Speaking of through-balls, Cesc is still topping the Premier League through-ball chart for last 5 years despite leaving in 2011, which is frankly crazy. He made more through balls in two seasons than other PL playmakers in five. 1) Cesc Fabregas – 64 through-balls in 52 games for Arsenal2) David Silva – Manchester City – 62 through-balls in 130 games3) Wayne Rooney – Manchester United – 48 through-balls in 150 games4) Samir Nasri – Manchester City – 45 through-balls in 149 games5) Frank Lampard – Chelsea – 41 through-balls in 145 games Top 20 players who made the most accurate through balls last season in Top 5 European leagues:1 Cesc Fabregas 0.7 (24 in total)2 David Silva 0.6 (16)3 Isco 0.5 (16)4 Luis Suárez 0.5 (16)5 Roberto Firmino 0.5 (16)6 Henrikh Mkhita... 0.5 (14)7 Francesco Totti 0.4 (11)8 Jack Wilshere 0.4 (10) 9 Andrea Pirlo 0.4 (12)10 Ander Herrera 0.4 (13)11 Philippe Coutinho 0.412 Aaron Ramsey 0.413 Mesut Özil 0.414 Reyes 0.415 Andrés Iniesta 0.416 Johan Cavalli 0.4 17 Yohan Cabaye 0.418 Xavi 0.419 Lionel Messi 0.420 Antonio Cassano 0.4 The chart makes it obvious that, unlike City, Liverpool and Arsenal, last season we didn't have anyone in the team good at through balls and now we got the very best out there. Very excited to see Cesc-Eden-Costa in the final third. yuvala, 1chelsea, sainttourist and 13 others 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellzfresh 7,229 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Speaking of through-balls, Cesc is still topping the Premier League through-ball chart for last 5 years despite leaving in 2011, which is frankly crazy.02He made more through balls in two seasons than other PL playmakers in five.02021) Cesc Fabregas ¨C 64 through-balls in 52 games for Arsenal2) David Silva ¨C Manchester City ¨C 62 through-balls in 130 games3) Wayne Rooney ¨C Manchester United ¨C 48 through-balls in 150 games4) Samir Nasri ¨C Manchester City ¨C 45 through-balls in 149 games5) Frank Lampard ¨C Chelsea ¨C 41 through-balls in 145 games02Top 20 players who made the most accurate through balls last season in Top 5 European leagues:1 Cesc Fabregas 02 020.7 (24 in total)2 David Silva 02 02 02 02 020.6 (16)3 Isco 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 0.5 (16)4 Luis Su¨¢rez 02 02 02 02 0.5 (16)5 Roberto Firmino 020.5 (16)6 Henrikh Mkhita... 0.5 (14)7 Francesco Totti 02 0.4 (11)8 Jack Wilshere 02 02 0.4 (10) 9 Andrea Pirlo 02 02 02 020.4 (12)10 Ander Herrera 02 020.4 (13)11 Philippe Coutinho 0.412 Aaron Ramsey 02 020.413 Mesut 00zil 02 02 02 02 020.414 Reyes 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 0.415 Andr¨¦s Iniesta 02 02 0.416 Johan Cavalli 02 02 020.4 17 Yohan Cabaye 02 020.418 Xavi 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 0.419 Lionel Messi 02 02 02 020.420 Antonio Cassano 020.402The chart makes it obvious that, unlike City, Liverpool and Arsenal, last season we didn't have anyone in the team good at through balls and now we got the very best out there. Very excited to see Cesc-Eden-Costa in the final third.Incredible stats if true. No wonder I used to see him as the best ever EPL passer when he was at arsenal. His through ball rate is crazy, costa won't miss koke's supply at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skipper 20,609 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Speaking of through-balls, Cesc is still topping the Premier League through-ball chart for last 5 years despite leaving in 2011, which is frankly crazy. He made more through balls in two seasons than other PL playmakers in five. 1) Cesc Fabregas 64 through-balls in 52 games for Arsenal2) David Silva Manchester City 62 through-balls in 130 games3) Wayne Rooney Manchester United 48 through-balls in 150 games4) Samir Nasri Manchester City 45 through-balls in 149 games5) Frank Lampard Chelsea 41 through-balls in 145 gamesTop 20 players who made the most accurate through balls last season in Top 5 European leagues:1 Cesc Fabregas 0.7 (24 in total)2 David Silva 0.6 (16)3 Isco 0.5 (16)4 Luis Suárez 0.5 (16)5 Roberto Firmino 0.5 (16)6 Henrikh Mkhita... 0.5 (14)7 Francesco Totti 0.4 (11)8 Jack Wilshere 0.4 (10) 9 Andrea Pirlo 0.4 (12)10 Ander Herrera 0.4 (13)11 Philippe Coutinho 0.412 Aaron Ramsey 0.413 Mesut Özil 0.414 Reyes 0.415 Andrés Iniesta 0.416 Johan Cavalli 0.4 17 Yohan Cabaye 0.418 Xavi 0.419 Lionel Messi 0.420 Antonio Cassano 0.4The chart makes it obvious that, unlike City, Liverpool and Arsenal, last season we didn't have anyone in the team good at through balls and now we got the very best out there. Very excited to see Cesc-Eden-Costa in the final third.That's incredible. Thanks for this. Muzchap 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iseah100 5,612 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Speaking of through-balls, Cesc is still topping the Premier League through-ball chart for last 5 years despite leaving in 2011, which is frankly crazy. He made more through balls in two seasons than other PL playmakers in five. 1) Cesc Fabregas – 64 through-balls in 52 games for Arsenal2) David Silva – Manchester City – 62 through-balls in 130 games3) Wayne Rooney – Manchester United – 48 through-balls in 150 games4) Samir Nasri – Manchester City – 45 through-balls in 149 games5) Frank Lampard – Chelsea – 41 through-balls in 145 gamesTop 20 players who made the most accurate through balls last season in Top 5 European leagues:1 Cesc Fabregas 0.7 (24 in total)2 David Silva 0.6 (16)3 Isco 0.5 (16)4 Luis Suárez 0.5 (16)5 Roberto Firmino 0.5 (16)6 Henrikh Mkhita... 0.5 (14)7 Francesco Totti 0.4 (11)8 Jack Wilshere 0.4 (10) 9 Andrea Pirlo 0.4 (12)10 Ander Herrera 0.4 (13)11 Philippe Coutinho 0.412 Aaron Ramsey 0.413 Mesut Özil 0.414 Reyes 0.415 Andrés Iniesta 0.416 Johan Cavalli 0.4 17 Yohan Cabaye 0.418 Xavi 0.419 Lionel Messi 0.420 Antonio Cassano 0.4The chart makes it obvious that, unlike City, Liverpool and Arsenal, last season we didn't have anyone in the team good at through balls and now we got the very best out there. Very excited to see Cesc-Eden-Costa in the final third.Wow. That's crazy! No doubt in my mind he pickes up where he left off in the PL with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando 6,585 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Speaking of through-balls, Cesc is still topping the Premier League through-ball chart for last 5 years despite leaving in 2011, which is frankly crazy. He made more through balls in two seasons than other PL playmakers in five. 1) Cesc Fabregas – 64 through-balls in 52 games for Arsenal2) David Silva – Manchester City – 62 through-balls in 130 games3) Wayne Rooney – Manchester United – 48 through-balls in 150 games4) Samir Nasri – Manchester City – 45 through-balls in 149 games5) Frank Lampard – Chelsea – 41 through-balls in 145 games Top 20 players who made the most accurate through balls last season in Top 5 European leagues:1 Cesc Fabregas 0.7 (24 in total)2 David Silva 0.6 (16)3 Isco 0.5 (16)4 Luis Suárez 0.5 (16)5 Roberto Firmino 0.5 (16)6 Henrikh Mkhita... 0.5 (14)7 Francesco Totti 0.4 (11)8 Jack Wilshere 0.4 (10)9 Andrea Pirlo 0.4 (12)10 Ander Herrera 0.4 (13)11 Philippe Coutinho 0.412 Aaron Ramsey 0.413 Mesut Özil 0.414 Reyes 0.415 Andrés Iniesta 0.416 Johan Cavalli 0.417 Yohan Cabaye 0.418 Xavi 0.419 Lionel Messi 0.420 Antonio Cassano 0.4 The chart makes it obvious that, unlike City, Liverpool and Arsenal, last season we didn't have anyone in the team good at through balls and now we got the very best out there. Very excited to see Cesc-Eden-Costa in the final third.Through balls hey?So does that means Torres will be a beast again? Muzchap, CHOULO19, kellzfresh and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLyon 9,359 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Whats the bad thing is that neither Cesc or Oscar cant stay back and defend and allow Matic to bomb forward. Last year, Matic was great at runing forward with ball, now with Cesc and Oscar, his role will be very limited. Thats why someone like Pogba would be best in our midfield. To offer some cover if Matic goes forward. And now with Matic limited, he wont be half player he could be. He will be beast in defending, but he can do much more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababoom 4,478 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I was watching some 'Fabregas vs' YouTube videos, what was evident was the difference in styles between Arsenal and Barcelona, you could tell he wasn't used to Barca's slow-tempo, shot passing style. when Fabregas was at Arsenal they played at a high tempo and he was encouraged to take risks.Just compare these two videos, you could tell he never suited their (Barca) style and in a way he was restricted. Daniel1980, kellzfresh, Barbara and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzchap 8,966 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Whats the bad thing is that neither Cesc or Oscar cant stay back and defend and allow Matic to bomb forward. Last year, Matic was great at runing forward with ball, now with Cesc and Oscar, his role will be very limited. Thats why someone like Pogba would be best in our midfield. To offer some cover if Matic goes forward. And now with Matic limited, he wont be half player he could be. He will be beast in defending, but he can do much more than that.Hmm I think I have the polar opposite view on this - having Fabregas (good in possession) with Matic is only going to help Matic!If Matic + Fabregas are attacking, there is no need for defending? It's almost binary in that sense - sure you need a defensive shape should it break down - but I still don't see Matic's career being ruined by having a better player alongside him - it can only help I guess we will see next season Mufassir08, Barbara and The Skipper 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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