🇫🇷 Kurt Zouma

[Pulisicismydaddy 91]

He started the season playing like a complete pub player but as the season went on he started to show his Everton form, would keep him and Rudiger for sure but we need a new goalkeeper for sure.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

With Thiago next to him and reliable GK, I can imagine Zouma become our most improved player next season.

Cant wait.

[kc_blue 265]

2 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

With Thiago next to him and reliable GK, I can imagine Zouma become our most improved player next season.

Cant wait.

I like the optimism but I just don't see it.  Playing next to Silva will help him a lot but a lot of what holds Zouma back is technique and it won't matter who's next to him for that.  Honestly I think Silva will help out AC and Rudiger more in that he will help with their bigger issues of staying focused and organized.

[King Kante 1,643]

1 hour ago, kc_blue said:

I like the optimism but I just don't see it.  Playing next to Silva will help him a lot but a lot of what holds Zouma back is technique and it won't matter who's next to him for that.  Honestly I think Silva will help out AC and Rudiger more in that he will help with their bigger issues of staying focused and organized.

Agree. For me, it is AC that benefits the most as his biggest problems are mental and physical (need to get him some of the Bayern serum.) Those problems however, are more fixable than not being able to handle possession under a high press and reading of the game. AC is totally in last chance saloon but with his current rep, losing him next season instead of this is going to have no minimal financial difference. If Zouma has another season like last he will be worth half the price. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

1 hour ago, kc_blue said:

I like the optimism but I just don't see it.  Playing next to Silva will help him a lot but a lot of what holds Zouma back is technique and it won't matter who's next to him for that.  Honestly I think Silva will help out AC and Rudiger more in that he will help with their bigger issues of staying focused and organized.

AC is mistake prone + not great defender and Rudi is just a nervous mess too often (at his age not fixable). Zouma is not great on the ball, but fantastic defender who just needs someone who can organise the backline. Plus he is the only one good in the air. We will need that in set pieces/corners because with Ziyech, we might finaly be dangerous again. Rudiger cant jump and AC is weak.

Gomes isnt outstanding CB either, but benefits from playing next to Van Dijk. 

Zouma likely wont be world class (althrough he is actualy very good no nonsense defender), but he will be good enough and thats what we need.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

6 minutes ago, King Kante said:

Agree. For me, it is AC that benefits the most as his biggest problems are mental and physical (need to get him some of the Bayern serum.) Those problems however, are more fixable than not being able to handle possession under a high press and reading of the game. AC is totally in last chance saloon but with his current rep, losing him next season instead of this is going to have no minimal financial difference. If Zouma has another season like last he will be worth half the price. 

Is CB primary role there to pass the ball or defend?

Zouma is our best defender by mile, but sure lets have Pep type CBs who crap their pants everytime it matters.

One thing is if CB can defend AND has great technique. The other is if he has the later but cant defend. AC is more composed on the ball, but he clearly isnt dominant enough. Also been too many times where he just lost it and gave away possesion, something that was supposed to be his strong point.

So if I have to choose, Id choose the one who can defend first. And thats Zouma. He held his own very well vs Bayern where others played bad. And that wasnt the first time.

[communicate 2,703]

3 minutes ago, King Kante said:

Agree. For me, it is AC that benefits the most as his biggest problems are mental and physical (need to get him some of the Bayern serum.) Those problems however, are more fixable than not being able to handle possession under a high press and reading of the game. AC is totally in last chance saloon but with his current rep, losing him next season instead of this is going to have no minimal financial difference. If Zouma has another season like last he will be worth half the price. 

Our team get smaller with thiago n chillwell n if we play werner as cf, and now you want to pair ac with silva. 

How do you defend set pieces next season is beyond me

[King Kante 1,643]

7 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Is CB primary role there to pass the ball or defend?

Zouma is our best defender by mile, but sure lets have Pep type CBs who crap their pants everytime it matters.

One thing is if CB can defend AND has great technique. The other is if he has the later but cant defend. AC is more composed on the ball, but he clearly isnt dominant enough. Also been too many times where he just lost it and gave away possesion, something that was supposed to be his strong point.

So if I have to choose, Id choose the one who can defend first. And thats Zouma. He held his own very well vs Bayern where others played bad. And that wasnt the first time.

The problem with Zouma is not just his work on the ball, it is also his positioning. Take for instance his great tackle against Palace. That only had to come about owing to his position in the first place. 

To be honest, if it is Zouma that stays it doesn't really bother me as all four of the CB's played awful last season in one shape or form. I give Tomori the least criticism as he is the youngest and was in his first year, however, when it comes to Zouma v AC v Rudi it is a little bit of me predicting what the club will do. From my point of view AC still has the greatest scope to improve as his failings are easier to iron out. However, if he gets culled I wouldn't be that surprised. 

7 hours ago, communicate said:

Our team get smaller with thiago n chillwell n if we play werner as cf, and now you want to pair ac with silva. 

How do you defend set pieces next season is beyond me

That is true, but last season Zouma was hardly superman at defending set pieces. Read my comment above.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Our team get smaller with thiago n chillwell n if we play werner as cf, and now you want to pair ac with silva. 
How do you defend set pieces next season is beyond me

Height isn't everything though. Sure it helps but none of the players you mentioned are short. All around 6ft or just under. Havertz is 6ft 2 and we'd still have giroud and RLC to come off the bench if we are defending a lead.

Tammy is lanky as hell but he's terrible in the air. We had quite a tall team defending set pieces last year with rudi, alonso, tammy etc but we were terrible at defending them.

It'd also help if we can bring in a big keeper who can come out and catch a lot of those that come in around the 6 yard box something kepa didn't do once all year.

[killer1257 3,282]

 

 

 

Height isn't everything though. Sure it helps but none of the players you mentioned are short. All around 6ft or just under. Havertz is 6ft 2 and we'd still have giroud and RLC to come off the bench if we are defending a lead.

 

Tammy is lanky as hell but he's terrible in the air. We had quite a tall team defending set pieces last year with rudi, alonso, tammy etc but we were terrible at defending them.

 

It'd also help if we can bring in a big keeper who can come out and catch a lot of those that come in around the 6 yard box something kepa didn't do once all year.

 

Tammy headed 23 clearances away in 2200 minutes, while Giroud had 13 in 1000 minutes. So if he played the same amount of minutes, Giroud could have gotten around 28 headed clearances. I do not think Tammy is that bad compared to Giroud when it comes to headed clearances. Werner will have way worse stats.

 

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[kc_blue 265]

10 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

AC is mistake prone + not great defender and Rudi is just a nervous mess too often (at his age not fixable). Zouma is not great on the ball, but fantastic defender who just needs someone who can organise the backline. Plus he is the only one good in the air. We will need that in set pieces/corners because with Ziyech, we might finaly be dangerous again. Rudiger cant jump and AC is weak.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that.  I just think that Silva's presence and leadership will help AC and Rudiger more then it will Zouma as his presence will directly affect many of their issues, organization and discipline, where there isn't help for Zouma's.  I like Zouma, I just don't think he fits the type of center back that Lampard wants to play the style he wants.

[communicate 2,703]

2 hours ago, Hutcho said:

Height isn't everything though. Sure it helps but none of the players you mentioned are short. All around 6ft or just under. Havertz is 6ft 2 and we'd still have giroud and RLC to come off the bench if we are defending a lead.

Tammy is lanky as hell but he's terrible in the air. We had quite a tall team defending set pieces last year with rudi, alonso, tammy etc but we were terrible at defending them.

It'd also help if we can bring in a big keeper who can come out and catch a lot of those that come in around the 6 yard box something kepa didn't do once all year.

Let's start one by one. When we play Rudiger, alonso, Giroud and Zouma together , I don't think we concede many set pieces goal. I can't remember many. 

Height isn't everything you are right. But let's be honest, Thiago Silva is not your dominant physical center back, not his game. Werner isn't a physical player weak challenge cb. I'll be surprised if Chilwell is better in the air than alonso. 

So essentially you weaken your already weak set pieces defense. If you combined that with playing Christensen our weakest cb. Good luck

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

11 minutes ago, communicate said:

I'll be surprised if Chilwell is better in the air than alonso. 

Funnily enough, Chilwell's Aerial Won % is higher than Alonso's in the Premier League last season - 59.5% compared to 57.5%

And in terms of the number of Aerial Won, Alonso was only the 7th highest in the team while Chilwell was the 4th highest at Leicester. 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

7 hours ago, Jason said:

Funnily enough, Chilwell's Aerial Won % is higher than Alonso's in the Premier League last season - 59.5% compared to 57.5%

And in terms of the number of Aerial Won, Alonso was only the 7th highest in the team while Chilwell was the 4th highest at Leicester. 

Chilwell has insane leap and he might actually be taller than the quoted 1,78M IMO. He looks almost as Tallis Lampard on their pictures together and was clearly more than 3cm taller than Willian when they faced each other so maybe he will at least surprise us in that department. 
never thought Alonso was any good in the air btw. Sure he wins aerial duels vs all those tiny wingers with ease but he is of no use marking big, strong players in our own box. 

[Jase 43,479]

2 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

Chilwell has insane leap and he might actually be taller than the quoted 1,78M IMO. He looks almost as Tallis Lampard on their pictures together and was clearly more than 3cm taller than Willian when they faced each other so maybe he will at least surprise us in that department. 
never thought Alonso was any good in the air btw. Sure he wins aerial duels vs all those tiny wingers with ease but he is of no use marking big, strong players in our own box. 

Yeah. Some short players can have a great leap or even timing that allows them to win aerial duels and render their height irrelevant. Having the physicality is also key of course. Am also sure Lampard took this into consideration when he was identify his main LB target. 

[communicate 2,703]

12 hours ago, Jason said:

Funnily enough, Chilwell's Aerial Won % is higher than Alonso's in the Premier League last season - 59.5% compared to 57.5%

And in terms of the number of Aerial Won, Alonso was only the 7th highest in the team while Chilwell was the 4th highest at Leicester. 

Maybe he is that good in the air but then I checked azpi just for confirmation he is also 59%, n we all know aerial battle is not his game.

 

[Jase 43,479]

6 hours ago, communicate said:

Maybe he is that good in the air but then I checked azpi just for confirmation he is also 59%, n we all know aerial battle is not his game.

That is true but on the other hand, just because Azpi isn't known for his aerial game, it doesn't mean he's bad at it. Have we ever complained endlessly about him getting exploited in the air? His positioning has always been spot on. Also, if we look at the number of aerial won, Azpi is second in that aspect in last season's Premier League for the team.

I don't know what's the average aerial won % for a full back but unless you start turning into Tony Pulis and putting giant CBs in the full back positions for example, I'd imagine the average can't be far off from the 59-60%. Don't have the aerial won % for all the full backs in the Premier League last season (and too lazy to start counting every single one of them) but looking at the number of aerial won, there are only like 3 full backs ahead of Azpi in that aspect. Chilwell also in the top 10. 

[Tomo 21,751]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

That is true but on the other hand, just because Azpi isn't known for his aerial game, it doesn't mean he's bad at it. Have we ever complained endlessly about him getting exploited in the air? His positioning has always been spot on. Also, if we look at the number of aerial won, Azpi is second in that aspect in last season's Premier League for the team.

I don't know what's the average aerial won % for a full back but unless you start turning into Tony Pulis and putting giant CBs in the full back positions for example, I'd imagine the average can't be far off from the 59-60%. Don't have the aerial won % for all the full backs in the Premier League last season (and too lazy to start counting every single one of them) but looking at the number of aerial won, there are only like 3 full backs ahead of Azpi in that aspect. Chilwell also in the top 10. 

This whole Azpi in the air narrative started after Alli beat him to two at WHL in 2017.

[Jase 43,479]

9 minutes ago, Tomo said:

This whole Azpi in the air narrative started after Alli beat him to two at WHL in 2017.

Was that even considered aerial battle? Didn't Spurs simply exploit the space between Azpi and Luiz back then by having Alli make late runs into the box? 

[communicate 2,703]

46 minutes ago, Jason said:

That is true but on the other hand, just because Azpi isn't known for his aerial game, it doesn't mean he's bad at it. Have we ever complained endlessly about him getting exploited in the air? His positioning has always been spot on. Also, if we look at the number of aerial won, Azpi is second in that aspect in last season's Premier League for the team.

I don't know what's the average aerial won % for a full back but unless you start turning into Tony Pulis and putting giant CBs in the full back positions for example, I'd imagine the average can't be far off from the 59-60%. Don't have the aerial won % for all the full backs in the Premier League last season (and too lazy to start counting every single one of them) but looking at the number of aerial won, there are only like 3 full backs ahead of Azpi in that aspect. Chilwell also in the top 10. 

So that aerial stat % does not mean much. Azpi for a fb is fine aerially but against set pieces, your position mean nothing, and is he good enough to defend against tall striker, clearly lamp say nope and clearly he said yes about alonso. 

I think there is this view that our set pieces defense problem is only because of lamp, that he is just so bad at organizing set pieces and that the fact that we have many small player and very few aerially good player isn't the reason. So it is ok to have small team and just by being organized, we will be very2 good. I clearly remember everyone said the same thing about klopp. He can't coach set pieces. VVD, matip n Fabinho later no one talked about it anymore. 

Now, our team instead of getting aerially better player, we replace our tall player with smaller player, and we think it will get better next season.