Ricardo Rodriguez

[Fernando 6,537]

  On 17/01/2014 at 22:16, The Skipper said:

Nah, it isn't only because of the home grown rule - for me, RR isn't that much better than Shaw (and he's 3 years older as well), and it's important for a club to be relatable to the country their from.

Shaw has a higher ceiling for me. He's a bit more silky on the ball too (with his dribbling) - sure RR is pretty technical and would not be a bad buy at all, but Shaw isn't a bad player and IMO easily has the potential to be the best LB in the world.

If he's good hes good.

I prefer we buy players who are good, not because they are English.

If we need English we just buy some horrible to mediocre player like Turnbull and sit them in the bench to fill our quota.

But other then that, I don't buy into buying English core just for the sake of it. They have to be good, and that's that.

And I agree with you in Shaw, I would prefer him. Not because he's English, but because he is good and has a higher ceiling.

[Jase 43,479]

  On 17/01/2014 at 20:24, The Mak said:

If he's good at set-pieces it's a big + for him over Shaw because, for as much as I love him, Oscar is terrible at them. Willian and Hazard are no better. Mata and Lampard won't start much either. Mata is good at everything except corners really. Lampard's free-kicks, and penalties to an extent, have deteriorated into 'smash it as hard as you possible can and hope for the best'.

Maybe so but then again, he's still arguably the most consistent one from the lot. As far as I remember, most of our goals from corners in past years seem to come when he takes them.

[The Skipper 20,593]

  On 17/01/2014 at 22:18, Fernando said:

If he's good hes good.

I prefer we buy players who are good, not because they are English.

If we need English we just buy some horrible to mediocre player like Turnbull and sit them in the bench to fill our quota.

But other then that, I don't buy into buying English core just for the sake of it.

Well, he is good enough clearly. That's not the debate here. If we signed Shaw he'd be number 1 left back here IMO. I'm of the opinion that an English club needs to promote it's own talent, especially if said talent is good enough, which is the case with Luke Shaw. RR might be the better player right now, but Luke Shaw is not far behind at all, and Luke Shaw is also 3 years younger. Also the fact that Luke is a Chelsea fan... so for me, if we can get Shaw for a nice price I'd definitely take him over RR.

[Leif 6,006]

We should have signed Adam Lallana instead of Eden Hazard. Then we wouldn't be having a silly discussion about all this. #English

We should also probably replace Oscar with Barkley now that I think about it. This 'English core' seems to be pretty important. More important than what the players actually bring to the team.. Think it might be Manchester City's English core which will give them the edge in this title race

[The Mak 4,459]

  On 17/01/2014 at 22:19, BluesMaster said:

Maybe so but then again, he's still arguably the most consistent one from the lot. As far as I remember, most of our goals from corners in past years seem to come when he takes them.

Oh I know that no doubt he's our best corner taker, but I don't think he does it as well as his set pieces outside the box. When he takes them outside the box closer to the sidelines he's allowed to put his wicked curve on it and into a lot of space for our players to attack. But it's not as effective at corners, he can't seem to get the curve as accurate as he does in other areas. He's not one to exactly drill it into an area either.

[The Skipper 20,593]

  On 17/01/2014 at 22:26, Leif said:

We should have signed Adam Lallana instead of Eden Hazard. Then we wouldn't be having a silly discussion about all this. #English

We should also probably replace Oscar with Barkley now that I think about it. This 'English core' seems to be pretty important. More important than what the players actually bring to the team.. Think it might be Manchester City's English core which will give them the edge in this title race

This is stupid. You're acting like the difference in talent between RR and Shaw is the same as the one between Hazard and Lallana.

I firmly believe Shaw can become the better player.

[Jase 43,479]

  On 17/01/2014 at 22:27, The Mak said:

Oh I know that no doubt he's our best corner taker, but I don't think he does it as well as his set pieces outside the box. When he takes them outside the box closer to the sidelines he's allowed to put his wicked curve on it and into a lot of space for our players to attack. But it's not as effective at corners, he can't seem to get the curve as accurate as he does in other areas. He's not one to exactly drill it into an area either.

True or maybe, we are just shit at attacking corners.

[Term-X 7,891]

  On 17/01/2014 at 22:09, Fernando said:

Not really.

It's just only because of the home grown rule. But other then that, English players are really horrible overpriced.

So why the hell do I want them for if they are not good enough?

You got it, because of the homegrown rule.

If that didn't existed we would be like Inter, having a team full of international players and little to nothing local talent.

...

  On 17/01/2014 at 20:02, BlueSunshine said:

Your logic is flawed in so many ways. First of all one of the reasons that i believe Shaw is the best option is his nationality and i am not even English. How does this make me a xenophobe? Chelsea is playing in the English Premier League so it is vital that we have english players. Also whether you like it or not we have to take into consideration the rule about the homegrown players. Shaw solves both of these matters. Ability wise and talent wise both are on the same level BUT Shaw already has big experience in the EPL and can walk into our first team almost immediately. You can never be sure about how long it will take for a foreign player to adapt in another country both in terms of football and life in general. Last but not least Shaw is a Chelsea supporter. This is something that you cannot buy with money and i believe that it is a big deal to have players who love the club no matter what.

And this is coming from an international member ^

It's about culture, it's about history, it's about identity. As a semi-italian football fan I WANT to see italian players at Milan & Napoli for example. It has nothing to do with me being english or Leif being a bitter scot.

Smh, philistines.

[Korea 734]

i dont know how u guys watch every player in the world, but according to whoscored, doesnt seem like a small difference...

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/118244

Luke Shaw's Characteristics

+ Strengths

Dribbling

Strong

- Weaknesses

Passing

Weak

Holding on to the ball

Weak

Luke Shaw's Style of Play

• Likes to dribble
• Likes to cross
• Likes to play short passes

© WhoScored.com

* Strengths, weaknesses and style of play are calculated from player statistics in domestic league games this season and last

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/61610/Show/Ricardo-Rodriguez

Ricardo Rodriguez's Characteristics

+ Strengths

Crossing

Strong

Key passes

Strong

Dribbling

Strong

Direct free kicks

Strong

Taking set-pieces

Strong

Holding on to the ball

Strong

Aerial Duels

Strong

Ball interception

Strong

Tackling

Strong

- Weaknesses

Concentration

Weak

Ricardo Rodriguez's Style of Play

• Likes to play long balls
• Plays the ball off the ground often
• Likes to dribble
• Likes to cross
• Commits fouls often

© WhoScored.com

I understand the whole English thing.

At Madrid, it was the same thing, with Jose and company bringing in all foreign players... Everyone was villified, save Cristiano.

[We Hate Scouse 10,291]

  On 17/01/2014 at 22:46, Korea said:

i dont know how u guys watch every player in the world, but according to whoscored, doesnt seem like a small difference...

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/118244

Luke Shaw's Characteristics

+ Strengths

Dribbling

Strong

- Weaknesses

Passing

Weak

Holding on to the ball

Weak

Luke Shaw's Style of Play

• Likes to dribble
• Likes to cross
• Likes to play short passes

© WhoScored.com

* Strengths, weaknesses and style of play are calculated from player statistics in domestic league games this season and last

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/61610/Show/Ricardo-Rodriguez

Ricardo Rodriguez's Characteristics

+ Strengths

Crossing

Strong

Key passes

Strong

Dribbling

Strong

Direct free kicks

Strong

Taking set-pieces

Strong

Holding on to the ball

Strong

Aerial Duels

Strong

Ball interception

Strong

Tackling

Strong

- Weaknesses

Concentration

Weak

Ricardo Rodriguez's Style of Play

• Likes to play long balls
• Plays the ball off the ground often
• Likes to dribble
• Likes to cross
• Commits fouls often

© WhoScored.com

I understand the whole English thing.

At Madrid, it was the same thing, with Jose and company bringing in all foreign players... Everyone was villified, save Cristiano.

Are we seriously judging players on Who Scored now? Fucksake. I think I preferred Football Manager.

[Fernando 6,537]

  On 17/01/2014 at 22:22, The Skipper said:

Well, he is good enough clearly. That's not the debate here. If we signed Shaw he'd be number 1 left back here IMO. I'm of the opinion that an English club needs to promote it's own talent, especially if said talent is good enough, which is the case with Luke Shaw. RR might be the better player right now, but Luke Shaw is not far behind at all, and Luke Shaw is also 3 years younger. Also the fact that Luke is a Chelsea fan... so for me, if we can get Shaw for a nice price I'd definitely take him over RR.

You said it right, for a nice price.

  On 17/01/2014 at 22:38, Terminator X said:

...

And this is coming from an international member ^

It's about culture, it's about history, it's about identity. As a semi-italian football fan I WANT to see italian players at Milan & Napoli for example. It has nothing to do with me being english or Leif being a bitter scot.

Smh, philistines.

Culture, history and identity? Funny thing is that's what arsenal fans are always preaching and say how we have none......

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 17/01/2014 at 19:25, Leif said:

Just buy the better player whether it's Shaw or Ricardo. There seems to be a neanderthal mentality slowly growing on here and it's really awkward. I'm reading what I think are suggestions that players should be prioritised due to their origin...or should we say, 'people'; not 'players'.

Let's just leave nationalities out of it. On the pitch they play with their feet, not their passport.

Signing Shaw over Rodriguez because the latter is Swiss or the former is English would be beyond ignorant and definitely questionable.

Just don't want visitors on the forum and rival fans thinking we're xenophobes personally.

What a load of tosh. Very right-on but completely ignores the reality of football.

We're a multi-cultural club and that is to our benefit. It's fantastic going to the Bridge and seeing fans from all over the world congregating to support this club, much like it is on this site. But ultimately we are an English club with strong roots in the community and a very distinctive English flavour to the club. That's why people from around the world are attracted to us in part. It's not something we should be shy of saying and it's certainly not something we should label haphazardly with words like 'xenophobic' when people support the notion of us signing a local lad who supports the club and just happens to have world-class potential.

This Rodriguez guy is a good player too, but Shaw is 3 years younger and looking mightily impressive in the Premier League. It isn't neanderthal to want English players of a high calibre at this English club.

[Strike 7,315]

Luke Shaw for me. Rodriguez is clearly good but there will come a time in 1 or 2 years when most of the English core will leave. Lampard JT Ash. Should replace them soon and Shaw fits the bill perfectly

[Sheva. 5,373]

  On 17/01/2014 at 23:26, We Hate Scouse said:

Are we seriously judging players on Who Scored now? Fucksake. I think I preferred Football Manager.

Whats wrong with Whoscored? players are judged on what they do on the pitch for the full 90 minutes and they're usually very accurate.

[Strike 7,315]

  On 18/01/2014 at 01:36, Sheva. said:

Whats wrong with Whoscored? players are judged on what they do on the pitch for the full 90 minutes and they're usually very accurate.

yeah they're the best of its kind but then again Martin Skrtel was MOTM vs Chelsea last month on whoscored

[shellpick 13]

it is nice to see a thread I longed for. IMO this guy is better than Luke Shaw. I understand the challenge we are facing when our english core players are gone in the following years. but is it so desperate that we have to buy expensive and young players who just might be one of them? acturally I also think very highly of Luke Shaw, but he is not good enough to compare with Ashley or Azp now. Ricardo is a better choice because he can qualify the first team and he is able to earn the starting XI position all by his own capacities.

If we want to fulfill the registration limit on home-grown or country-grown players we can get our own players like bertrand on the bench or chalobah trained by chelsea academy. if we want to get core players in england national team, go get the players who is more certain to be one like barkley, clyne and even famous stars like rooney. it will be a shame for us to make the same mistake after seeing how liverpool failed in the recent years with downing, caroll and adam.

[Sheva. 5,373]

  On 18/01/2014 at 01:40, Strike said:

yeah they're the best of its kind but then again Martin Skrtel was MOTM vs Chelsea last month on whoscored

Because stats fail sometimes

But the part they show a players strengths and weaknesses, as well as style of play = as good as it gets.

Ramires for example is good at tackling and has trouble holding on to the ball - pretty accurate, i'd say.

[Waterfall 893]

  On 18/01/2014 at 01:36, Sheva. said:

Whats wrong with Whoscored? players are judged on what they do on the pitch for the full 90 minutes and they're usually very accurate.

Because football is a sport that's hard to judge using statistics. Even the advanced stats that clubs have are unreliable; raw stats that are available to the public are largely misleading because you need context. Pass completion rate for example have lots of variables like distance, defenders in between, pressure the passer is under, pace of the pass, movement of the target etc. Also take a look at their PL best XI so far. Patrice Evra, who has been dreadful this season, made the team, and they have Gerrard there too.