Willian

[Jase 43,479]

 

[NikkiCFC 7,953]

It's Willian... He knows being free agent will get him huge salary in the next club plus big bonus for just signing. After all he played for Anzhi. 

[NikkiCFC 7,953]

16 hours ago, 1905didierblue said:

Goal return is only ONE of the things to look at while comparing. Willian was a far far better fit in our system. With Hazard we needed an industrious right winger/right midfielder, which fit willian perfectly. 

I disagree. Willian and Hazard both like to keep the ball for to long so for me they are not a dynamic duo. 

[1905didierblue 748]

2 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

I disagree. Willian and Hazard both like to keep the ball for to long so for me they are not a dynamic duo. 

Every manager has chosen willian as their right winger. So either they are all frauds, or a lot of fans here don't understand the game as well as they think they do. 

I know what I think is right.

[NikkiCFC 7,953]

1 hour ago, 1905didierblue said:

Every manager has chosen willian as their right winger. So either they are all frauds, or a lot of fans here don't understand the game as well as they think they do. 

I know what I think is right.

Do you know that Pedro and Willian have around equal PL minutes played in the last 3 season? And this is only because Pedro have much bigger injury record. Conte clearly preferred Pedro so when Hazard was injured Willian gained minutes he normally wouldn't. After all Conte wanted Willian out! Sarri started last season with Pedro before he got injured. Willian was starter for a while but again Pedro finished the season as a starter (watch EL final). 

Do you agree that since Willian and Pedro are at the club together (last four seasons) our most successful season is Conte's winning season 16/17? 

In 16/17 season Willian started 15 games with 1531 minutes played. Pedro 26 games with 2151 minutes on the pitch. Willian was only preferred in the season 15/16 when we finished 10th with clueless Mourinho and Hiddink. And yet in that season Pedro managed to score two goals more with 707 minutes less playing time. 

I'm not here to compere them but clearly both Sarri and Conte preferred Pedro over Willian. And this is telling us a lot since no one is happy with Pedro either among fans. We wanted upgrade on those two for years now. And I don't have problem to say that Willian looks better than Pedro this season. But overall to sum up your narrative is wrong. 

[Vesper 28,822]

3 hours ago, 1905didierblue said:

Every manager has chosen willian as their right winger. So either they are all frauds, or a lot of fans here don't understand the game as well as they think they do. 

I know what I think is right.

that is a logical fallacy

it is called appeal to authority

you also posit a false dichotomy (ie that they are either (1) frauds OR (2) the posters here do not understand the game well) when there are far more than 2 simple binary options in terms of structural explanations

so

overall a shoddy attempt to try and belittle the posters here

I rate it a 

FAIL

[1905didierblue 748]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

Do you know that Pedro and Willian have around equal PL minutes played in the last 3 season? And this is only because Pedro have much bigger injury record. Conte clearly preferred Pedro so when Hazard was injured Willian gained minutes he normally wouldn't. After all Conte wanted Willian out! Sarri started last season with Pedro before he got injured. Willian was starter for a while but again Pedro finished the season as a starter (watch EL final). 

Do you agree that since Willian and Pedro are at the club together (last four seasons) our most successful season is Conte's winning season 16/17? 

In 16/17 season Willian started 15 games with 1531 minutes played. Pedro 26 games with 2151 minutes on the pitch. Willian was only preferred in the season 15/16 when we finished 10th with clueless Mourinho and Hiddink. And yet in that season Pedro managed to score two goals more with 707 minutes less playing time. 

I'm not here to compere them but clearly both Sarri and Conte preferred Pedro over Willian. And this is telling us a lot since no one is happy with Pedro either among fans. We wanted upgrade on those two for years now. And I don't have problem to say that Willian looks better than Pedro this season. But overall to sum up your narrative is wrong. 

I dont know mate. When I compare Willian vs Pedro's minutes over the course of the last 4 seasons:

2018/19: 3533 vs 3099

2017/18: 3053 vs 2509 (conte season)

2016/17: 2076 vs 2723

2015/16: 3881 vs 2781

I think there is a clear choice of managers over pedro's 4 full season here. 

Conte wanting willian out was for different reasons. Similar to him wanting Costa out and using morata instead. I dont think you can use that as an argument for which player is better

Pedro's USP is his goal scoring. If we take successful take ons, Defensive interceptions and rating, number of turn overs etc etc, willian would be better than pedro. Each has his own merits, but given that we had eden on the left, and not really a very strong mid, you can see why the managers opted more for willy. 

Lastly, the fans are never happy. If we had a front 3 of CR, messi, Mbappe, they will still find a way to have a moan. 

[1905didierblue 748]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

that is a logical fallacy

it is called appeal to authority

you also posit a false dichotomy (ie that they are either (1) frauds OR (2) the posters here do not understand the game well) when there are far more than 2 simple binary options in terms of structural explanations

If the sample size was 1 year or small, yes, i would agree. Fortunately, its not. Its across multiple years/seasons, across club and country. There is a reason willian is attracting interest from Barca and the rest, that you so vehemently keep reminding us. 

 

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

so

overall a shoddy attempt to try and belittle the posters here

I rate it a 

FAIL

 I dont have to. Have you read the comments on here? Its the same fan base that JUST A MONTH AGO was ridiculing lamps for starting tammy who according to some was a championship level striker. Some even thought we would finish in the bottom half if we persisted with this youth revolution. So believe me, Not belittling the fans here, they do that themselves. All you have to do is read some of the comments on the match day thread when the teams are announced. 

You can rate it whatever you want, still wont change the facts. 

[Tomo 21,733]

11 hours ago, 1905didierblue said:

Every manager has chosen willian as their right winger. So either they are all frauds, or a lot of fans here don't understand the game as well as they think they do. 

I know what I think is right.

Did they? Conte and Sarri both picked Pedro when it was a set choice out of either (apart from that brief period in 2018 when Willy's form shot up to Hazard territory).

Edit: @NikkiCFC has already covered this.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

At the end of the day both should not be here next season. THey have done what they could for Chels, time to look for younger freasher and better options.

[1905didierblue 748]

57 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Did they? Conte and Sarri both picked Pedro when it was a set choice out of either (apart from that brief period in 2018 when Willy's form shot up to Hazard territory).

Edit: @NikkiCFC has already covered this.

Willian played more minutes in 2018/19 and 17/18. 

I always remember as it being quite close between them but the scales tipping more towards willian than Pedro. And those minutes confirm that

[Tomo 21,733]

2 hours ago, 1905didierblue said:

Willian played more minutes in 2018/19 and 17/18. 

I always remember as it being quite close between them but the scales tipping more towards willian than Pedro. And those minutes confirm that

17/18 was probably more down towards Willian having those two months of undroppable form and then being more suited to playing in the 352 Conte implemented compared to Pedro.

Last season I'm not sure how he got more minutes because it seemed whenever it was a straight choice between one or the other for the right wing (ie when one wasn't injured or we weren't playing false 9) Pedro seemed to get the nod more often than Willy, case in point Europa final.

[cosmicway 1,323]

On 03/10/2019 at 7:23 AM, NikkiCFC said:

Stats in the PL :

Willian 204 games 29 goals 

Pedro 129 games 28 goals 

So in the last couple of seasons Pedro was our best right winger. And before Kalou gave us much more than Willian overall. But that's not a point. We needed to upgrade on both Willian and Pedro for about 3 years now. 

 

Pedro plays in the centre of the attack more often, whereas Willian is clearly unsuitable for that role (that's why he 's a corner taker).
It's absurd to pick on Willian, we should transfer list 5-6 players before we get to Willian.

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, 1905didierblue said:

Willian played more minutes in 2018/19 and 17/18. 

I always remember as it being quite close between them but the scales tipping more towards willian than Pedro. And those minutes confirm that

 

2 hours ago, Tomo said:

17/18 was probably more down towards Willian having those two months of undroppable form and then being more suited to playing in the 352 Conte implemented compared to Pedro.

Last season I'm not sure how he got more minutes because it seemed whenever it was a straight choice between one or the other for the right wing (ie when one wasn't injured or we weren't playing false 9) Pedro seemed to get the nod more often than Willy, case in point Europa final.

Willian has indeed started more games and played more minutes than Pedro in the last 4 seasons but think injuries/suspensions have to be taken into account here. From 2015/16 till 2018/19, Willian missed only 12 games while Pedro missed 23, that's 11 games and 990 minutes difference. In any case, here's the full stats comparison:

WILLIAN

2015/16 - 45 starts + 4 subs = 3,881 minutes (missed 4 games)

2016/17 - 21 starts + 20 subs = 2,026 minutes (missed 4 games)

2017/18 - 33 starts + 22 subs = 3,053 minutes (missed 2 games)

2018/19 - 43 starts + 13 subs = 3,533 minutes (missed 2 games)

PEDRO

2015/16 - 30 starts + 10 subs = 2,781 minutes (missed 10 games)

2016/17 - 33 starts + 10 subs = 2,723 minutes (missed 1 game)

2017/18 - 28 starts + 20 subs = 2,509 minutes (missed 4 games)

2018/19 - 36 starts + 16 subs = 3,099 minutes (missed 8 games)

[1905didierblue 748]

4 hours ago, Tomo said:

17/18 was probably more down towards Willian having those two months of undroppable form and then being more suited to playing in the 352 Conte implemented compared to Pedro.

Last season I'm not sure how he got more minutes because it seemed whenever it was a straight choice between one or the other for the right wing (ie when one wasn't injured or we weren't playing false 9) Pedro seemed to get the nod more often than Willy, case in point Europa final.

To me, it really seems like a coin toss. Or rather based on form, need of the hour and opposition.

Which includes the last season for me. 

[the wes 7,212]

Chelsea are  to open contract talks with 31-year-old Brazil forward Willian, whose current deal expires at the end of the season. (Express)

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,302]

Why is this at all even being considered?

[Vesper 28,822]

8 hours ago, the wes said:

Chelsea are  to open contract talks with 31-year-old Brazil forward Willian, whose current deal expires at the end of the season. (Express)

 

jesus fucking h christ!!!

UNLESS

we sign him and THEN sell his arse