Willian

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Oscar is infinitely better than Willian. Look at the first time passes he was giving in that 1st half for example, that takes incredible skill and vision. His individual game has progressed every season while Willian has barely improved from last year.

We saw glimpses of Oscar's goalscoring potential in the 12-13 CL season and the first half of last years PL. This season he's taken his creativity not just in his final ball but general play to a level few of his ever envisaged. His direct set piece taking ability has also come along over the past couple of months. He's not the perfect player by any means but you can see gradual development in his game while Willian is still the same old player.

Will has a significant advantage in ball carrying ability and retention skills but I think as Oscar continues to develop physically so will his retention skills.

[Shakez 755]

We all know who understands nothing about football. It's been proved over and over again...

Moving on...

At least this whole conversation put light on something I missed. I had no idea Willian had 10 assists last year... how come people say he evolved this season? Of course, he's more adapted to the league, but as a sub most part of the season he had 10 assists - which I think is impressive in a first season (that might be way I defended him so much last season).

Now he's been starting nearly every match we play and he has two assists. If that doesn't show how frustrating, ineffective, lost, useless, and downright bad he's been in the final third choices and execution, I don't know what does.

I do recognize and praise him for his stamina, energy, work rate, but he's an AM he has to offer more to the actual attack.

Oscar has always been highly criticized around here - and much of the criticism has been fair and I agree - and the the main criticism was that how he creates nothing for us as an AM/#10. Willian gets away with much worse return in the attack... I know the fact that Oscar led Mata to be dropped and then offloaded is what irritated people the most, but as limited as he can be, Oscar has been offering more than Willian in the attack consistently (except during his terrible second half of season earlier this year).

Willian must improve, we can't have an AM that starts nearly all our matches in the season, to have only two assists and a very low number of chances created - at least chances created that matter, as I particularly hate how sloppy that stat can be.

Some really childish remarks in there, but two can play this game.

You often state that statistics aren't everything (mostly when defending your favorite players) but you still cling on these stats to criticize certain players.

You also say it was Oscar that led too Mata's departure, but it's very apparent that wasn't the primary reason. Schürrle, KDB, and Mata are arguably all more of an attacking threat than both Oscar and Willian. Mourinho obviously knows this but still allowed KDB and Mata to leave. Schürrle rarely even gets a game in. Even now that he is seemingely fit, he refuses to rotate him in against a weak team. Oscar was partly responsible for the Juan Mata departure, but it's funny that Mourinho rarely played him last year against the big teams. Opting for Ramires and Willian in almost every big game encounter (with massive succes). The 2 players you probably hate the most. Where they a consistent attacking threat then and now?? The answer is no, but they offer that extra cover and balance Mourinho teams need.

Heck, Mourinho didn't even start Oscar against a team like Stoke. Hence they are a physical side. But alot of big teams are, i wouldn't be at all surprised he drops Oscar again when we play the big boy's in the Champions League.

Willian clearly lacks in the final third, but he offers alot more in the build-up than a player like André Schürrle ever could. Schürrle was a shiny club buy. The deal was as good as done even before Mourinho came back. Mourinho didn't like his options when we had KDB, Mata and Schürrle and opted for a last minute buy in Willian. A player that became a regular without multiple assist/goals to boast with. Displacing said players and your precious Oscar in big games.

The team play's better with Willian in the team, that is a fact. People in the team like him, he frees up Ivanovic to bomb forward, can interchange to any position during the match. Resulting in defenders not knowing who they have to cover, is very fluid in the 1 touch play. And most of all keeps defensive focus for 90 mins+ and the ability to break up play without tiring.

Willian isn't the second coming of jesus obviously and we can surely upgrade from him (like a certain fella called Marco Reus). But a player like him will always have place in a Mourinho team, whatever the role.

Willian is probably even going to be here for another couple of years (improved contract talks are ongoing right now). I just hope you will change your broken record of saying he's 0 intelligence player who offers nothing to the team every few pages ( we get it by now). You clearly don't now as much off football as you think you know.

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

The thing about him is that I think we all have to accept he is that winger that is probably gonna get 5 goals max for every season he is here from now on, unless we change our style of play or he undergoes a Ronaldo transformation or something. I hope he can directly contribute more assists though. For some reason I am imagining him as Valencia for MU a few years ago when he was quite good but Willian is not a one trick pony like Valencia was.

If we can upgrade him for someone like Reus or Bale I would definitely do it, Schurrle is not that much better either. Still though he is good so it would have to be someone like Bale, Reus, James...etc or otherwise no point selling him and getting another similar winger who had a decent season. A couple of years ago I thought he got the potential to be better than someone like Grizemann but now it is clear who is better.

[Barbara 15,149]

Some really childish remarks in there, but two can play this game.

You often state that statistics aren't everything (mostly when defending your favorite players) but you still cling on these stats to criticize certain players.

You also say it was Oscar that led too Mata's departure, but it's very apparent that wasn't the primary reason. Schürrle, KDB, and Mata are arguably all more of an attacking threat than both Oscar and Willian. Mourinho obviously knows this but still allowed KDB and Mata to leave. Schürrle rarely even gets a game in. Even now that he is seemingely fit, he refuses to rotate him in against a weak team. Oscar was partly responsible for the Juan Mata departure, but it's funny that Mourinho rarely played him last year against the big teams. Opting for Ramires and Willian in almost every big game encounter (with massive succes). The 2 players you probably hate the most. Where they a consistent attacking threat then and now?? The answer is no, but they offer that extra cover and balance Mourinho teams need.

Heck, Mourinho didn't even start Oscar against a team like Stoke. Hence they are a physical side. But alot of big teams are, i wouldn't be at all surprised he drops Oscar again when we play the big boy's in the Champions League.

Willian clearly lacks in the final third, but he offers alot more in the build-up than a player like André Schürrle ever could. Schürrle was a shiny club buy. The deal was as good as done even before Mourinho came back. Mourinho didn't like his options when we had KDB, Mata and Schürrle and opted for a last minute buy in Willian. A player that became a regular without multiple assist/goals to boast with. Displacing said players and your precious Oscar in big games.

The team play's better with Willian in the team, that is a fact. People in the team like him, he frees up Ivanovic to bomb forward, can interchange to any position during the match. Resulting in defenders not knowing who they have to cover, is very fluid in the 1 touch play. And most of all keeps defensive focus for 90 mins+ and the ability to break up play without tiring.

Willian isn't the second coming of jesus obviously and we can surely upgrade from him (like a certain fella called Marco Reus). But a player like him will always have place in a Mourinho team, whatever the role.

Willian is probably even going to be here for another couple of years (improved contract talks are ongoing right now). I just hope you will change your broken record of saying he's 0 intelligence player who offers nothing to the team every few pages ( we get it by now). You clearly don't now as much off football as you think you know.

Childish? Unless you meant my comment towards Rom2013, I think his views of football goes against what most people agree as being basics. The amount of posts he writes that nobody can even try to agree with is too much to count. Let's call his view of football unorthodox then.

I already said many times I really like stats - when they're contextualized, I used to write statistical articles for the forum and I loved it and did you miss the parts where I said that PERFORMANCES and VOLUME OF PLAY in addition to his stats is what convinces me Oscar has been offering way more than Willian has? Or did you skip that post? If a conversation is going, at least read all the points raised before joining it. They have the same workrate - Oscar even more actually, Oscar plays 1-2s with Cesc and Hazard very often, he passes the ball forward, he tries to be more objective, he takes more shots. This is all about him as a player, it's not stats saying me anything.

I love it how you guys put a label on someone and when they say something that isn't according to that label you call THEIR bluff (not yours who has no business deciding what a person likes or dislikes). I said many times in the Hazard discussion last week - to which I'm still waiting Greyco and everyone who agreed with him to answer me who's the best defensive player between Cesc and Eden - that when contextualized stats are great. They can tell a lot of lies if you don't look them closely. Now how can # of assists and goals lie?

Chances created is the most misleading stat in the game imo, I stated as much in the post you quoted because whoever makes a pass before a player takes a shot is counted as a chance created. Many times it's a nonchalant pass, to a player that carries the ball a long distance and then take a nonsense shot. That's not creating a chance here nor in hell. I also have a problem with dribbles and take ons. A player can have a thousand of those and create absolutely nothing for the team. It's all dandy and fancy but useless if it doesn't produce anything - and before you and some other fellow come saying anything I'm implying it, that's not the case with Hazard. Hazard has the dribbles, but also objectivity - something he improved a lot compared to last season.

I didn't say Oscar led Mata to be offloaded, I said people were irritated by it. In their eyes it was Oscar's fault because he moved Mata to the bench. At the end of the day Mata didn't fit Mourinho's system, whereas Oscar did. That's why he was sold with great profit for the club. Ever since then Oscar has been overly criticized and it took a long while before people stopped mentioning Mata a couple of times in every page on Oscar's thread. If you weren't here, or don't remember, I can't help, but it did happen. Some people even seem to resent Oscar because of it when it's not his fault at all.

and get your facts straight, mate, I don't hate any Chelsea player. Some of them really frustrate me and I don't give a fuck who Mourinho plays in the big games as long as we win. Unlike many people around the world, I don't support a club because of a player. I support players because of the club. It doesn't mean it's a blind support where I don't criticize them or the manager. I do when I feel like doing it. Willian is a frustrating player, until he stops being I won't change my opinion, but maybe you should read my last post in the subject where I said we all wish both players (Oscar and Willian) to succeed because they're Chelsea players. I got over my HATE for Cesc the moment that pic of him holding the blue shirt in a hotel room in Brazil came out. Wherever they keep the speculation threads of players we signed you'll be able to find a couple of posts by me showing how much I hated Cesc Fàbregas. You may hate players that play for the team you support, but don't make the assumption about others.

I couldn't disagree more about your views about Schurrle, Oscar and Willian. Oscar won't play the toughest physical games. I have no problem with that. I have no problem when Mourinho doesn't play Oscar, I love Oscar, I love Cesc, I love Eden and I'm not going to deny I love them more than I love others - but I don't love any of them more than I love Chelsea. I've wanted shitty players like Torres to be sold, it makes me sigh (in a bad way) that a player like Willian will continue to be part of the squad (I can definitely see a contract renew coming) and occupy a spot that should be occupied by someone much better than him. Others think the same about Oscar. It all comes down to preference. But if Ramires was replaced - even if forced by injury - maybe so will Willian. Both are supposedly on their peaks, both are supposedly playing the best they could whereas players like Oscar and Schurrle still have a lot to develop and grow and hopefully they will - another fact people continue to ignore. Oscar is 23, Willian is 26.

If you think the team plays better with Willian, good for you. Just don't make it a statement because it's a subjective matter. If I think my precious Oscar makes the team play better, it's also only my opinion. I said more than once that we should rotated both players, because having both in the team can be frustrating sometimes. Sorry if I kicked your puppy somewhere... it wasn't the goal, but your post was cute, lol.

And when I need someone to tell me how much about football I understand, I'll come to you, master, though tbh I don't see it happening. I'm not here for validation.

edit: my 'love' for Cesc weeks before he was signed for us

lol1

lol 2

and then my definite post in the subject

you know how much I don't rate Ramires technically when I'm willing to accept Fiberglass as his replacement...

There are three players I just hate in the football world: Dani Alves, Sergio Busquets and Cesc Fabregas... but I'm willing to swallow my pride and self-respect and support this SOB if it means Ramires hits the bench.

I like Ramires as a guy, but as a footballer, I'm fed up with his limitations and how he messes up our attacks and his own tackles 3 seconds after regaining possession.

Bring Cunt Fiberglass if that's what it takes to get rid of Ramires in the starting XI

In a Brazilian forum I was much more 'colorful' on my feelings about him. Now look my signature.

gotta admit I had many laughs now re-reading the early days of the speculation thread. LOL. The few brave of you - especially Thomas, MrExcalibur100 and LDN blue - defending the transfer from day one are some smart lads Actually if it wasn't for Thomas' passion defending him as a player and showing what a big player he was, it would have taken longer for me to warm up to the idea. So I guess thanks are in order, Skip

[Beepu 1,714]

He's not a shiny player like Hazard (his transfer fee was) but he works hard and gives balance to the team. Obviously someone who can work hard and has cutting edge would be welcomed *cough cough Reus* but he's no where as bad as some are making him out to be. Opinions will vary especially in forums, but it's quite annoying when people believe in their own hype and becomes a know it all.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

I think people's fascination of Reus makes them critical of Willian. Also the fact that we compare him with Hazard on the other wing role makes its more unfair.

Definitely not worth 30m but the price tag isn't his fault.

[iseah100 5,612]

I think people's fascination of Reus makes them critical of Willian. Also the fact that we compare him with Hazard on the other wing role makes its more unfair.

Definitely not worth 30m but the price tag isn't his fault.

Reus is amazing.

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

Anyone kind of fed up with his constant non-productivity? It has got to a point where I want to see him trying to score or assists in at least double figure, not fucking running around defending for majority of the matches. Think he is basically becoming last season Ramires, good player to have off the bench but shouldn't be good enough to be starting for us. Need a Reus/Bale player next summer.

[Madmax 9,219]

Need a Reus/Bale player next summer.

You misspelled "this January".

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Anyone kind of fed up with his constant non-productivity? It has got to a point where I want to see him trying to score or assists in at least double figure, not fucking running around defending for majority of the matches. Think he is basically becoming last season Ramires, good player to have off the bench but shouldn't be good enough to be starting for us. Need a Reus/Bale player next summer.

Hazard is all alone creatively among our attacking midfielders and its fucking embarrassing now

[LAB 1,030]

Salah had more impact than him today. That's saying a lot.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

I think people's fascination of Reus makes them critical of Willian. Also the fact that we compare him with Hazard on the other wing role makes its more unfair.

Definitely not worth 30m but the price tag isn't his fault.

Firstly, just to state it, I've been consistently critical of Willian because his offensive contribution is not good enough and not because of a comparison with any potential replacement.

I have been a long standing fan of Marco Reus but I confess that, for a while now, I've been less enthusiastic about us signing him. His performances after eventually getting his season under way were hit and miss, mostly miss. I'm worried about what he may have lost to the accumulation of injuries. If I were asked now, yea or nay on Rues? I'd say let's look very, very hard for alternatives before taking the plunge.

[iseah100 5,612]

Firstly, just to state it, I've been consistently critical of Willian because his offensive contribution is not good enough and not because of a comparison with any potential replacement.

I have been a long standing fan of Marco Reus but I confess that, for a while now, I've been less enthusiastic about us signing him. His performances after eventually getting his season under way were hit and miss, mostly miss. I'm worried about what he may have lost to the accumulation of injuries. If I were asked now, yea or nay on Rues? I'd say let's look very, very hard for alternatives before taking the plunge.

For 20m Reus is a must. Even with injury concerns. Or WE COULD GIVE SALAH A FUCKING CHANCE. He looked decent today, wouldn't mind him starting the next game. My guess is Jose starts the exact same XI as today.

[Jase 43,479]

I don't want to sound like I'm running a campaign against Willian but when he's not being his usual tireless working self in games, like against Spurs, then he's almost like a Torres in the starting XI.

[The Chels 2,502]

Even neutrals notice how ineffective Willian and Oscar are so surely Jose must too? Doubt we'll get a new RW though.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

I don't want to sound like I'm running a campaign against Willian but when he's not being his usual tireless working self in games, like against Spurs, then he's almost like a Torres in the starting XI.

It won't sound like it if you did the same for Schurrle.

[Cripen 110]

I think people's fascination of Reus makes them critical of Willian. Also the fact that we compare him with Hazard on the other wing role makes its more unfair.

Definitely not worth 30m but the price tag isn't his fault.

But its says something. Of course Hazard is one of the best out there and there always will be a difference, but for the moment its just too much. Compared too Eden, Willian is just no danger on his side.

[Jase 43,479]

It won't sound like it if you did the same for Schurrle.

Considering Willian is more of a first choice than Schurrle, then it's only normal the former gets more scrutiny.