Willian

[The Chels 2,502]

Paying 30m just to get a workhorse like Willian seems a waste of money, doesn't it? There are probably some players in the squad who if drilled properly, can do the same job he does and even contribute more offensively.

Even our FBs offer more going forward than him. In fact I reckon we'd have a greater attacking output if Hazard moved to the right and Luis played on the left in front of Azpi.

[Tomo 21,733]

Paying 30m just to get a workhorse like Willian seems a waste of money, doesn't it? There are probably some players in the squad who if drilled properly, can do the same job he does and even contribute more offensively.

Im not sure, for all his last ball frustrations he offers incredible balance to the team, the reason Hazard has a free(ish) role is because him and Oscar run around like dogs to maintain the team balance.

We could have got someone to "run around" for about 5m, but he would probably be a technical and tactical donkey who offers nothing more than lungs.

Players like Willian are vital to a team/squad, people use to wonder why Fergie always played "average"player's aswell.

If we lift the PL in May then Willian would have well and truly earned his medal as much as anyone.

[Jase 43,479]

Im not sure, for all his last ball frustrations he offers incredible balance to the team, the reason Hazard has a free(ish) role is because him and Oscar run around like dogs to maintain the team balance.

We could have got someone to "run around" for about 5m, but he would probably be a technical and tactical donkey who offers nothing more than lungs.

Players like Willian are vital to a team/squad, people use to wonder why Fergie always played "average"player's aswell.

If we lift the PL in May then Willian would have well and truly earned his medal as much as anyone.

I'm perfectly well aware of that but at what point, do we say 'enough is enough' with the lack of product going forward? Nobody is asking Willian to score or assist in every game, but at least produce them in return at a decent rate. Right now, that only seem to be happening like once in every blue moon. His last league goal and assist came back in September against Villa. His last ones in all competitions was against Schalke last month. So, he's practically only scored and assisted in two games this season. That's really underwhelming, even for a player providing balance to the team.

[Spike 12,049]

He cost about as much as Cesc, Eden and Diego.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

If Jose wanted more attacking plays from the right side then I am sure Andre would have been a starter for us. Its clear now that Willian gets picked primarily for his defending efforts. Though he's not bad offensively and at times can form great link ups with out attacking players.

Is he worth the 30m? Definitely not but there is no point talking about the price tag now. He may not be a game changer like Hazard but that does not mean we should overlook the Brazilian's effort because of this.

I feel he's highly underrated and am glad that he plays for us.

[Styles 9,790]

Willian is a great team-player but offensively he does leave an awful lot to be desired. And I think it's pretty clear at this point that he's not going to do any heavy lifting when it comes to scoring/creating goals. But I think that if Hazard, Fabregas, Costa, and Oscar etc carry on making the difference there will always be a place for Willian in the team. I have no doubts that Schurrle would score more but I'd still pick Willian ahead of him more often than not.

[Tomo 21,733]

I'm perfectly well aware of that but at what point, do we say 'enough is enough' with the lack of product going forward?.

When it starts affecting overall results, in my opinion. This season we have been playing as good as we have since 2010, and Willian is a key part of that despite lack of goals and assists.

Schurrle and probably Salah also would score and assist more, but are we a better team for taking Willian out and putting either of those two in? not for me.

[Y123CFC 69]

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Edited August 11, 2021 by Y123CFC

[LAM09 6,750]

It kills me to think we wasted £30m on him to spite Tottenham (only reasonable explanation). He is a decent squad member, but he shouldn't be starting week in, week out.

[rantdeville 195]

It kills me to think we wasted £30m on him to spite Tottenham (only reasonable explanation). He is a decent squad member, but he shouldn't be starting week in, week out.

That's not the only reasonable explanation. And I'm not even his biggest fan.

[Rom2013 446]

The other reason why we bought Willian was because we had a 3 number 10 in the team, and no wingers with exception of Hazard. The person who made that team knows nothing about football. But there was another problem... Oscar was not good enough, Mata can't defend at all and de Bruyne was a disaster. We needed wingers and Willian is not only a really good winger but also between all our AM's the more consistet and complete one by far.

FOr me is not good enough to play every week but he is an increadible player to start 25 games in the league as our 4th AM.

Again people like a lot to say bad things about WIllian but they look at Oscar and think he is increadible, when in reality Willian was better last season and will be again in this one.

[rantdeville 195]

The other reason why we bought Willian was because we had a 3 number 10 in the team, and no wingers with exception of Hazard. The person who made that team knows nothing about football. But there was another problem... Oscar was not good enough, Mata can't defend at all and de Bruyne was a disaster. We needed wingers and Willian is not only a really good winger but also between all our AM's the more consistet and complete one by far.

FOr me is not good enough to play every week but he is an increadible player to start 25 games in the league as our 4th AM.

Again people like a lot to say bad things about WIllian but they look at Oscar and think he is increadible, when in reality Willian was better last season and will be again in this one.

-->The person who made this team knows nothing about football

-->De Bruyne was a disaster.

-->Oscar, after displacing Mata in the team, was not good enough.

-->Willian is a winger.

-->Willian is our most complete and consistent AM.

-->He's a good option to start 25 games as a 4th AM

-->He'll have a better season as a whole than Oscar

Dude....what????

Mourinho signed Willian, Costa, Luis, Fabregas and recalled Courtois (and Salah) to create "This team." It is a completely different side than the 2012-13 team and in every way better. Plus, as an aside, HE GOT TORRES AWAY FROM THE TEAM. The bedrock of this team was in place and has formed a solid (not impermeable) foundation. De Bruyne was sold for a profit and is doing well for himself, not one ounce of disaster in that whole situation. Barring the end of last year, Oscar is/was a very good AM. Is he a #10? Maybe, maybe not. But he fits into Mourinho's team like a glove. Willian doesn't have the direct wide play of a winger. He drifts wide to create space, but everything comes back inside with him. He is in no way shape or form our most complete AM, he is ineffective in the final third but works his socks off in the middle and in defense. The final third is an integral area for an AM to be deemed effective. See, Hazard. There is nothing to say that demonstrates he is going to have a better season than Oscar. Oscar has his flaws and I'll be the first to agree with them. The balance that he brings to the team is invaluable.

...and lastly how does he start 25 games as a 4th AM when we play with 3 at any given time?

[Hostedenis 556]

Mourinho signed Willian, Costa, Luis, Fabregas and recalled Courtois (and Salah) to create "This team."

He also signed Matic!

Other than that, I completely agree!

[rantdeville 195]

He also signed Matic!

I'm ashamed for forgetting. Arguably the most important signing.

[Rom2013 446]

-->The person who made this team knows nothing about football

-->De Bruyne was a disaster.

-->Oscar, after displacing Mata in the team, was not good enough.

-->Willian is a winger.

-->Willian is our most complete and consistent AM.

-->He's a good option to start 25 games as a 4th AM

-->He'll have a better season as a whole than Oscar

Dude....what????

Mourinho signed Willian, Costa, Luis, Fabregas and recalled Courtois (and Salah) to create "This team." It is a completely different side than the 2012-13 team and in every way better. Plus, as an aside, HE GOT TORRES AWAY FROM THE TEAM. The bedrock of this team was in place and has formed a solid (not impermeable) foundation. De Bruyne was sold for a profit and is doing well for himself, not one ounce of disaster in that whole situation. Barring the end of last year, Oscar is/was a very good AM. Is he a #10? Maybe, maybe not. But he fits into Mourinho's team like a glove. Willian doesn't have the direct wide play of a winger. He drifts wide to create space, but everything comes back inside with him. He is in no way shape or form our most complete AM, he is ineffective in the final third but works his socks off in the middle and in defense. The final third is an integral area for an AM to be deemed effective. See, Hazard. There is nothing to say that demonstrates he is going to have a better season than Oscar. Oscar has his flaws and I'll be the first to agree with them. The balance that he brings to the team is invaluable.

...and lastly how does he start 25 games as a 4th AM when we play with 3 at any given time?

The person who built the team before Mourinho knows nothing about football. That team had Hazard, Moses, Malouda, Piazon, Oscar, Mata, Marin and also bought De Bruyne. Something like 4 number 10 players but in a normal team only 1 can play, and only 1 decent winger but a normal team should play with 2 wingers, About De Bruyne he was a disaster... it's the reality.

"Oscar gives balance"... while "Willian is ineffective in the final third"... Yes, I love the way you try to say that Oscar is horrible in attack because he gives balance, and Willian is horribe in attack because he is shit. It makes a lot of sense.

Today Oscar fits like a glove on the bench. In the last 4 games in 3 he was on the bench. In the last 2 games away from home that Oscar played we didn't win and Oscar did absolutely nothing. It was so bad that at the minute 60 Mourinho had to substitute him. Do you remember what happened last season with Oscar?

Willian is the most consistent AM we have by far (Oscar last season was on vacations for 4 months and already started his vacations this season), Schurrle can't do a decent game when he is in the starting eleven, and Hazard sometimes seems like Messi and others he is not there at all.

But more important than all of that in 2013/2014 we needed wingers, and that was the reason why we bought WIllian.

[rantdeville 195]

The person who built the team before Mourinho knows nothing about football.

-The "person" that built the team before Mourinho...in reference to the players that you listed, dude that was like 3 or 4 different managers. That "person," if you must (within the time frame of those aforementioned players) won the Premier League, the FA Cup, the Europa Cup (among others)...and that one trophy with the big ears, you might have seen it.

-And this de Bruyne thing...scapegoat someone else cuz it's shaking up your whole argument. He was purchased for 7m Euro and sold for 19.36m. Good business, any way you slice it. We were fine without him, he became a full-fledged international and is ripping the Bundesliga.

-Seriously, dude? "Yes, I love how you try to say that Oscar is horrible in attack because he gives balance, and Willian is horrible in attack because he is shit." You're making it up. I didn't say that. I said Oscar is a good AM, he is debatable as a #10 (because he lacks the incisive vision that Mata had) but he has different responsibilities under Mourinho.

-And in fairness to your initial post which I ignored until now, I agree that Willian was signed to provide an option wide, but it's just that I'm reluctant to call him a winger.

-But I will agree that he is consistent, he is consistent in that he does not provide goals, either directly or through assists. That doesn't make him a bad player it just doesn't make him a great winger/attacking mid/wide forward/wide midfielder/second striker/#10/false 9...or we can call the position a "guy-who-spends-most-their-time-in-the-middle-and-final-third-but-not-a-striker."

Oscar's goals/assists, in all comps, since he signed Willian's goals/assist since he signed

2012 - 12/12 2012 - not here

2013 - 11/10 2013 - 4/10

2014 - 4/5 halfway through the season...he's on par to hit his mark 2014 - 2/2 halfway through the season

-Oscar is the mark of consistency, he's not God's gift to football, but I'll give him credit for consistency. If we were to project out the current numbers, Willian would be about half as productive as he was last year, thereby making him the least consistent of the attacking players.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Willian is the most consistent AM we have by far

Yes, consistently average.

[Barbara 15,149]

We all know who understands nothing about football. It's been proved over and over again...

Moving on...

At least this whole conversation put light on something I missed. I had no idea Willian had 10 assists last year... how come people say he evolved this season? Of course, he's more adapted to the league, but as a sub most part of the season he had 10 assists - which I think is impressive in a first season (that might be way I defended him so much last season).

Now he's been starting nearly every match we play and he has two assists. If that doesn't show how frustrating, ineffective, lost, useless, and downright bad he's been in the final third choices and execution, I don't know what does.

I do recognize and praise him for his stamina, energy, work rate, but he's an AM he has to offer more to the actual attack.

Oscar has always been highly criticized around here - and much of the criticism has been fair and I agree - and the the main criticism was that how he creates nothing for us as an AM/#10. Willian gets away with much worse return in the attack... I know the fact that Oscar led Mata to be dropped and then offloaded is what irritated people the most, but as limited as he can be, Oscar has been offering more than Willian in the attack consistently (except during his terrible second half of season earlier this year).

Willian must improve, we can't have an AM that starts nearly all our matches in the season, to have only two assists and a very low number of chances created - at least chances created that matter, as I particularly hate how sloppy that stat can be.