Antoine Griezmann

[Spike 12,049]

20 minutes ago, BlueSunshine said:

Never mind this post, Chelsea Legend 11 just explained his post so there is nothing for me to say on that matter.

No, there is still confusion. My post is not about 'using a terrible part of human history to explain away why demeaning and demonizing someone is not a reason to be outraged.'. It is the complete opposite. I used contrasting propaganda from the 40s to illustrate that forever people have used caricatures to dehumanise people and that blackface is no different and that is why it is offensive. I think I clearly pointed out that it is a bad thing and that it is reason to be outraged.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I rescind that bold remark. I thought that obvious with my following posts.
What are you talking about? I think people should be outraged, you fool! I explained why people don't like being dehumanised, I explained that throughout history people have been dehumanised and this is no different! I am not doing that at all, you are extrapolating my statements into sheer exaggerations. I have merely explained that the Blackhawks aren't seen in the same light as other teams, how in high-water does that statement lend itself to 'explaining away injustices'?  I am not 'ignoring' them! I am just not talking about what I know nothing about, I only know the Blackhawks so I can only speak of them. First you mock 'vast knowledge' then you expect me to know everything! Make your mind.
I think you vastly misunderstood my points.

So now you see where my anger came from. Good we are learning... slowly.

My original post wasn't just for you but also for the other geniuses who think there isn't a reason to be outraged and feel the need to call people social justice warriors! If you have since come around and realize this is a serious issue and marginalizing is in poor taste then good, but don't call me a fool when you've had to retract a statement.

All this talk about the Blackhawks does little for the discussion about blackface and how griezmann's decision to don it is completely out of line. If you excuse Chicago my points still stand! That no one cares about what griezmann did because it has no affect on their lives. If you are black you would've be outraged by the sight of it, and then he tells people to 'calm down'? Complete lack of respect or sensitivity of the issues.

[Spike 12,049]

10 minutes ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

 

So now you see where my anger came from. Good we are learning... slowly.

My original post wasn't just for you but also for the other geniuses who think there isn't a reason to be outraged and feel the need to call people social justice warriors! If you have since come around and realize this is a serious issue and marginalizing is in poor taste then good, but don't call me a fool when you've had to retract a statement.

All this talk about the Blackhawks does little for the discussion about blackface and how griezmann's decision to don it is completely out of line. If you excuse Chicago my points still stand! That no one cares about what griezmann did because it has no affect on their lives. If you are black you would've be outraged by the sight of it, and then he tells people to 'calm down'? Complete lack of respect or sensitivity of the issues.

 

My first post was essentially my gut reaction - to play the devil's advocate, upon reflecting I changed my thoughts on many of the points. 

You must also consider the following: footballers have weird lives. They don't go to 'normal school' like us; I've read journals concerning life in places like Castilla and Masia that classes are essentially 'for show' and they receive no 'real education'. There were implications that many of the students were barely literate and some (the implication of Dani Carvajal) were completely illiterate dunces. You can't forget some people don't have that many smarts about them, the stereotype of the dumb jock is true and in the case of European football it is exaggerated. Many have underdeveloped social skills as a consequence of having limited life experience out of playing the sport. None of this is a justification or even applies to Griezmann but it could be a contributing factor. That is why I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt in some cases. I don't really know much about Griezmann, but given the evidence of him being very close with several black French footballers and the blackface incident but my conclusion was that he thought it was okay because maybe some of his black friends thought it was funny. That isn't an excuse just my rationalisation of the incident.

The only reason I went on a tanget about Chicago is because you brought them up and I know quite a bit about their history and founding. I can see why people would find their imagery distasteful, but I can also see why people would be fond of it

[BlueSunshine 672]

12 minutes ago, Spike said:

No, there is still confusion. My post is not about 'using a terrible part of human history to explain away why demeaning and demonizing someone is not a reason to be outraged.'. It is the complete opposite. I used contrasting propaganda from the 40s to illustrate that forever people have used caricatures to dehumanise people and that blackface is no different and that is why it is offensive. I think I clearly pointed out that it is a bad thing and that it is reason to be outraged.

I got your point right away mate, he seemed to have misunderstood you that's why i said that i don't have anything else to add and deleted my initial post.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

My first post was essentially my gut reaction - to play the devil's advocate, upon reflecting I changed my thoughts on many of the points. 
You must also consider the following: footballers have weird lives. They don't go to 'normal school' like us; I've read journals concerning life in places like Castilla and Masia that classes are essentially 'for show' and they receive no 'real education'. There were implications that many of the students were barely literate and some (the implication of Dani Carvajal) were completely illiterate dunces. You can't forget some people don't have that many smarts about them, the stereotype of the dumb jock is true and in the case of European football it is exaggerated. Many have underdeveloped social skills as a consequence of having limited life experience out of playing the sport. None of this is a justification or even applies to Griezmann but it could be a contributing factor. That is why I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt in some cases. I don't really know much about Griezmann, but given the evidence of him being very close with several black French footballers and the blackface incident but my conclusion was that he thought it was okay because maybe some of his black friends thought it was funny. That isn't an excuse just my rationalisation of the incident.
The only reason I went on a tanget about Chicago is because you brought them up and I know quite a bit about their history and founding. I can see why people would find their imagery distasteful, but I can also see why people would be fond of it

Agree with most except the benefit of the doubt bit.

One thing that can't be explained away by lack of hrs in the classroom is the code of conduct from the many federations he is a member of. Even if he meant no malice from it, he has certainly violated the code of conduct laid out by French Football Federation, UEFA, la liga and FIFA. So none of this lack of education counts for much because along with the handbooks from the various federations, he also has had PR training from all of his clubs and possibly even his own personal PR firm. If none of this has been covered then KICK IT OUT and SAY NO TO RACISM are clearly just for show and have no real mandate.

I will be watching this with anticipation. It would be prudent for one of the governing bodies to take action if they are truly anti-racism.

[Georgy 439]

2 pages of nothing. 

[The Skipper 20,593]

6 hours ago, El P. said:

Do you seriously think Griezmann wanted to offend someone?

EDIT: I know it's oversimplification, but analogy is on point.

You answered your own question on the validity of the analogy there. What we’re talking about here isn’t really comparable to that. 

[The Skipper 20,593]

6 hours ago, Leif said:

You said that those who disliked Emenalo had racism in them.

I said - “I'm going to say it now, some might not like it, but the dislike for Emenalo just smacks off as subliminal racism to me.” - you can infer that I meant it as a general blanket statement but I’m telling you now that I’m talking about some Chelsea fans. Maybe I didn’t convey my words properly and I regret not elaborating. There were obviously legitimate criticisms of Emenalo. If you don’t think the fan base has some racism problems then you need to open your eyes to it. There’s sometimes the odd idiot at games for example who’ll shout out a racial slur. Not to mention some of the more famous incidents i.e. the Paris train fiasco. 

Anyway, it’s back on topic for me from now onwards. 

[Special Juan 27,104]

This can be discussed via PM if you want to continue it, plus Griezmann is off to Barca it seems.

Locked for now.

[Jase 43,479]

Has told Atletico he will leave the club this summer.

[Pizy 17,860]

He seems like the biggest self absorbed cunt in world football,might there with his France teammate Pogba. Always has to make a big show about everything he does and says.

I suppose Barca will have to sell a few. Suarez & Coutinho seem likely.

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, Pizy said:

He seems like the biggest self absorbed cunt in world football,might there with his France teammate Pogba. Always has to make a big show about everything he does and says.

I suppose Barca will have to sell a few. Suarez & Coutinho seem likely.

Hazard out. Griezmann in? 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Atletico is completely falling apart. Godin, Lucas, Juanfran, Griezmann, Luis, possibly Rodri.

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

I pray to God that this is not the Coutinho money they get after ripping off Chelsea. Can't be. Must not be. We. Are. Not. That. Stupid!!!!!!!! 

[Adnane 1,101]

Surely we can put in a sneaky 125M bid with the Hazard money to activate his clause as well and give him something to think about ? 

If we get Griezmann then isn't that a great Hazard replacement from a collective stand point ? Making us a better team overall with a great finisher and team player ? 

Meh what am I saying, dude is leaving for lack of trophies, we aren't even arsed to mount a half title challenge these days, why would he pick us over Barcelona  

Would be a shame if we don't knock the door at least though. 

[Superblue 6,331]

If we were going to spend the Hazard money on one player to 'replace' him, I'd far rather it be on Griezmann than Coutinho.

However, I'd still rather the club bat more intelligently and use funds and resources wisely to build a better team, not have one standout player to hang our hat on all the time.

[LAM09 6,557]

If we were going to spend the Hazard money on one player to 'replace' him, I'd far rather it be on Griezmann than Coutinho.
However, I'd still rather the club bat more intelligently and use funds and resources wisely to build a better team, not have one standout player to hang our hat on all the time.

We really don't need to go all out for 1 player. Pepe and someone else would be more ideal tbh.