Closed Chelsea 0-1 QPR

[kellzfresh 7,229]

The problem with that is because Oscar was either dropping deep or playing too high up that he wasn't playing as the link man as he's supposed to. For most of the first half especially, we looked like playing a 4-4-2 and because there's no one connecting the midfield and attack, we got the situation where either Lampard or Luiz bombing forward and leaving spaces behind. What made even worse was the lack of movement upfront. None of the front 4 of Torres, Oscar, Moses and Marin were moving about enough to drag QPR around and disrupt their shape. All were so static that it was so easy for them to defend and difficult for us to find those gaps and space. And when you see Ivanovic stepping out from the back and having a shot from distance, TWICE, you know your team is having massive problems!

This is exactly what happened. Mata usually comes deep, moves around and keeps the tempo going. Oscar did a terrible job in replacing him, he and marin didn't provide an outlet for the cm which left shooting any how.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I'm sorry but that opinion is just dumb. He rested TWO(!) players at the back end of an insanely busy scheduled. He then brought in a German international and a Nigerian international, both of whom we bought in the Summer for decent amounts of money. If he seriously can't rest two players at home against QPR and not expect to get a result then it's pretty obvious that the fault lies with the squad, not the manager.

So it's dumb to point out that Mata has been one of the three best players in the Premier League and that we rely on him for most of our offence?

Try watching some of the matches and seeing how much he contributes to bringing other players into the game. Then look at the game QPR set themselves up to play, where it was obvious they'd get men behind the ball and need to be broken down.

Oversimplifying things by saying he rested two players (arguably our two most penetrating attacking forces) and brought in two internationals is the definition of dumb.

[Corner 456]

Rafa resting both Mata and Hazard was a mistake, and it cost us the game.

But what really annoys me is that the line-ups most people on here posted before the game, the line-ups they wanted to see, had an attacking midfield trio of Oscar, Moses and Marin (the exact trio that Rafa played). A lot of people saying 'we need to rotate players' etc.

But after the match they're willing to say Rafa is an idiot and should be sacked. You can't get much more hypocritical than that. All of those people called it wrong, just like Rafa. The people who said we needed to field a strong 11 are the people who have the right to criticize Rafa here.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

If you are not upset with Oscar, why did you post saying he is underperforming and needed to step up? He is doing OK for someone with his experience. Your comparisson about Ronaldo being 1/1000 and your comparisson with Ronaldo's and Oscar's age are wrong and naive.

CR7 and Oscar are/were not gambles, they may not turn out to be as great as everyone thought they would, but no one really have/had a doubt they would be somewhat relevant. A totally different perspective with the rest of the young promisses. There are two types of transfers regarding young players: the ones in hopes of the player developing an amazing set of skills and the ones the player has already proved his quality but still needs to be polished. The first option is where the gamble lies, one can't predict where the player's talent will stop. However, the second option is almost a certainty, the question lies on whether the player will have the necessary environment to flurish. Just like Messi, people did not know what he would become, but there are videos of scouts praising him when he was 13, they knew he was amazingly talented. Same with Neymar, people already knew he would be good when he had 9 years old, they just dont know how good.

However, it has nothing to do with the fact you cleared posted Oscar was underperforming from what you would expect from a 25million sign.

He does need to step it up if Chelsea hope to stay in the Champion's League spot. It's not fair, but Oscar is one of the most expensive midfielders in history and one of the most expensive players we've ever bought (6th), and because of that, we need to be getting better performances. Oscar was more expensive than Mata, David Silva, Alexis, Cazorla, Reus, Kagawa, Ozil, Dembele,etc... Young players who had established themselves in top leagues. It's not his fault he cost so much money which is why I'm not upset with him. but it's an insane amount of money to spend on someone you need to develop. Think of it this way, if Chelsea had chosen to sign (in a theoretical world) say Van Persie or Dembele and Ba i(or any other combination of ready players instead of Oscar in the summer, where would they be right now? Probably seriously challenging for the Premier League. So, Oscar might be worth it in the long run, but every year of development, costs us short-term both in terms of results and in terms of money.

And every young player is a gamble. Every player period is a bit of a gamble, but for someone who has not proven themselves, it's a big gamble. Ronaldo could have turned out to be Quaresma or any other number of flops. Yes, people knew Messi was going to be great when he was young but there are tons of players people "know" are going to be great and most of them aren't.. Here is a list of Don Balon's top-100 young footballers in 2001 (apologies for posting a link to a ManU blog, I feel dirty) http://www.redcafe.net/f7/top-100-young-players-2001-a-205125/ You can see what a complete crap-shoot young talent is. Even the elite of the elite of young players are vastly more likely to fail than to succeed. I do think Oscar will likely be a great player and his chances of being a complete flop are tiny because he has a lot of very good fundamental skills, but it's still a risk.

[blu35_army 551]

any of you have all moment (GIF) that Torres shoot was blocked?

[bushman 2,043]

I might have a gif of him playing with himself, soon.

[The only place to be 11,313]

He does need to step it up if Chelsea hope to stay in the Champion's League spot. It's not fair, but Oscar is one of the most expensive midfielders in history and one of the most expensive players we've ever bought (6th), and because of that, we need to be getting better performances. Oscar was more expensive than Mata, David Silva, Alexis, Cazorla, Reus, Kagawa, Ozil, Dembele,etc... Young players who had established themselves in top leagues. It's not his fault he cost so much money which is why I'm not upset with him. but it's an insane amount of money to spend on someone you need to develop.

Isn't the youngest player out of that lot at least two years older than Oscar?

A couple of years ago fans were moaning about us going after older, established players and now we're looking to develop younger players and people are still finding fault with it? For me he's shown enough for me to be happy with him, but now I actually think he's being mis-used by Benitez. We could have done with his creativity in the double pivot last night with Mata further ahead, but he was stuck in a position where he had no support from his striker yet he still showed some good flashes.

Think of it this way, if Chelsea had chosen to sign (in a theoretical world) say Van Persie or Dembele and Ba i(or any other combination of ready players instead of Oscar in the summer, where would they be right now? Probably seriously challenging for the Premier League. So, Oscar might be worth it in the long run, but every year of development, costs us short-term both in terms of results and in terms of money.

Personally I'm happy with the club valuing long-term, sustainable success over short-termist thinking which is actually what has led to our current problems in my opinion. The club are clearly trying to set themselves up for next season by targeting a quality manager and young players who fit his system and style of playing. I've said this before but we're not going to spend big like we did in 2004.

[Jase 43,479]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhdnjmgWDJo

[BlueLion. 21,491]

But he didn't score and he was shooting wildly off target. He had good intentions but those intentions didn't pay dividends, did they?

It's better to try and fail than to fail by not trying.

[Spike 12,049]

It's better to try and fail than to fail by not trying.

True, but as Andy Cole (I think) always says: 'It doesn't matter if you don't score, just get your shots on target at least.'

[The Big Drog 1,110]

So it's dumb to point out that Mata has been one of the three best players in the Premier League and that we rely on him for most of our offence?

Try watching some of the matches and seeing how much he contributes to bringing other players into the game. Then look at the game QPR set themselves up to play, where it was obvious they'd get men behind the ball and need to be broken down.

Oversimplifying things by saying he rested two players (arguably our two most penetrating attacking forces) and brought in two internationals is the definition of dumb.

Against smaller sides Barcelona will routinely rest Iniesta or Xavi or both. Real Madrid have no problem resting Ozil or Alonso against smaller sides if the manager feels they need rest. Ferguson for years has been able to rest Rooney occasionally and previously Ronaldo and now Van Persie and still feel confident of getting a result.

Are you telling me that we can't put Brazil's starting number 10 and German international Marko Marin into the side and not expect to break down QPR?

If the manager can no longer rest two players against bloody QPR, bring in two highly rated young players only to be called complacent then I give up, I really do, with that ridiculously stupid logic what is the fucking point in even having a squad? Let's just use the same 11 players every week.

[TrippingStep 336]

Against smaller sides Barcelona will routinely rest Iniesta or Xavi or both. Real Madrid have no problem resting Ozil or Alonso against smaller sides if the manager feels they need rest. Ferguson for years has been able to rest Rooney occasionally and previously Ronaldo and now Van Persie and still feel confident of getting a result.

Are you telling me that we can't put Brazil's starting number 10 and German international Marko Marin into the side and not expect to break down QPR?

If the manager can no longer rest two players against bloody QPR, bring in two highly rated young players only to be called complacent then I give up, I really do, with that ridiculously stupid logic what is the fucking point in even having a squad? Let's just use the same 11 players every week.

But to make a metaphor with Rugby, we have shitty fly-halfs, first center in our squad.

The players that organise the play, the defensive and central midfielders in the two in front of the defense.

If the english clubs are struggling more in Europa, it's because the quality of the defensive midfielders have declined in the top english clubs.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

But to make a metaphor with Rugby, we have shitty fly-halfs, first center in our squad.

The players that organise the play, the defensive and central midfielders in the two in front of the defense.

I agree that there are problems in the squad. Far too many average players on the pitch last night starting with the striker. Nor am I saying that Oscar and Marin are as good as Mata and Hazard but surely they can be trusted at home against QPR after the scheduled we've had.

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

Against smaller sides Barcelona will routinely rest Iniesta or Xavi or both. Real Madrid have no problem resting Ozil or Alonso against smaller sides if the manager feels they need rest. Ferguson for years has been able to rest Rooney occasionally and previously Ronaldo and now Van Persie and still feel confident of getting a result.

Are you telling me that we can't put Brazil's starting number 10 and German international Marko Marin into the side and not expect to break down QPR?

If the manager can no longer rest two players against bloody QPR, bring in two highly rated young players only to be called complacent then I give up, I really do, with that ridiculously stupid logic what is the fucking point in even having a squad? Let's just use the same 11 players every week.

We are not saying he should not rest his players but everyone could see they was something wrong at half time he had to make changes. If we are to believe what the press say RDM was fired for being tactically inept and thts why Rafa was brought in but he again failed the same goes for the west ham and Corinthians games were he made his subs reallly late on Hazard only came on in the 59th minute which was un acceptable

[The only place to be 11,313]

Against smaller sides Barcelona will routinely rest Iniesta or Xavi or both. Real Madrid have no problem resting Ozil or Alonso against smaller sides if the manager feels they need rest. Ferguson for years has been able to rest Rooney occasionally and previously Ronaldo and now Van Persie and still feel confident of getting a result.

Are you telling me that we can't put Brazil's starting number 10 and German international Marko Marin into the side and not expect to break down QPR?

If the manager can no longer rest two players against bloody QPR, bring in two highly rated young players only to be called complacent then I give up, I really do, with that ridiculously stupid logic what is the fucking point in even having a squad? Let's just use the same 11 players every week.

Yes, I'm telling you that. I'm telling you we're not in a position at the moment where we can afford to take chances in league matches by resting our most important player, especially when we have two cup games coming up where he could be rested with lower stakes at risk.

If you want to give up based on that, then fine. But you'll note no-one is saying that we should use the same 11 players every week. Hell, Mata played 50 games last season - I'd be quite happy if he played just 48 this season and they were just the remaining league games.

Of course all this completely ignores the point that he wasn't rested and was eventually brought on much too late.

We aren't in the position Barcelona are in unfortunately.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Personally I'm happy with the club valuing long-term, sustainable success over short-termist thinking which is actually what has led to our current problems in my opinion. The club are clearly trying to set themselves up for next season by targeting a quality manager and young players who fit his system and style of playing. I've said this before but we're not going to spend big like we did in 2004.

We've spent more in each of the last three seasons than we did than we have in any season since 2004-2005. We're actually spending more now. Sure, we're not going to spend like we did in 2004, but no one is (except PSG) ever again. We've spent more than any other club in the Premier League over the past three years. Our problem is not that we thought short-term, it's that our signings were crap. In 07-08 we bought Anelka, Malouda, and Ivanovic. None of them particularly young and all were instrumental in the success we've had since then. The problem is that since then, our transfers have been horrible. We've spent 250M in the past three seasons and only have one excellent player, a few good players,and some nothing players. That's not nearly good enough for what we've spent. The problem recently, is that we are planning too long-term. You should be planning for a few years, not for 10. Our competitors are spending the big money on players who are ready to compete and still buying young talent. City bought Nastasic for what, 10M pounds and he's 20 and now their starting CB. ManU bought Kagawa who was 23 and Bundesliga player of the year for 14M pounds. Spurs spent on Lloris, Vertonghen, and Dembele none were more than 15M pounds. All of them are in their mid-20s and should be top players for years. You don't have to be 19 or 20 to be a buy with the future in mind. Most players aren't going to play more than a few years with any club anyway. We're spending a lot of our big money on young talent who aren't ready yet. No other club is doing that.

And building for the future at the expense of the present makes no sense in football because every year you do poorly, you lose a lot of money which hurts your future. Each place in the Premier League costs you around 755K pounds so the difference between winning and finishing lower in the table is millions If you don't make the CL which is unlikely but possible for us, it can cost you up to 35M. Us not making it past the group stages cost something like 15-20M. So, the value of buying players for the future is completely shot if you don't win. Us not having a better team this season is going to cost us millions and millions of pounds which in turn will make us have less money to spend next summer which will make it harder to compete long-term.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

We are not saying he should not rest his players but everyone could see they was something wrong at half time he had to make changes. If we are to believe what the press say RDM was fired for being tactically inept and thts why Rafa was brought in but he again failed the same goes for the west ham and Corinthians games were he made his subs reallly late on Hazard only came on in the 59th minute which was un acceptable

How is the 59th minute unacceptable? He gave the players he started a team talk, he gave them time to go out and apply what he said at half time, it didn't work out so he changed it after 15 minutes. That's just logical management, not a hanging offence.

[The only place to be 11,313]

We've spent more in each of the last three seasons than we did than we have in any season since 2004-2005. We're actually spending more now. Sure, we're not going to spend like we did in 2004, but no one is (except PSG) ever again. We've spent more than any other club in the Premier League over the past three years. Our problem is not that we thought short-term, it's that our signings were crap. In 07-08 we bought Anelka, Malouda, and Ivanovic. None of them particularly young and all were instrumental in the success we've had since then. The problem is that since then, our transfers have been horrible. We've spent 250M in the past three seasons and only have one excellent player, a few good players,and some nothing players. That's not nearly good enough for what we've spent. The problem recently, is that we are planning too long-term. You should be planning for a few years, not for 10. Our competitors are spending the big money on players who are ready to compete and still buying young talent. City bought Nastasic for what, 10M pounds and he's 20 and now their starting CB. ManU bought Kagawa who was 23 and Bundesliga player of the year for 14M pounds. Spurs spent on Lloris, Vertonghen, and Dembele none were more than 15M pounds. All of them are in their mid-20s and should be top players for years. You don't have to be 19 or 20 to be a buy with the future in mind. Most players aren't going to play more than a few years with any club anyway. We're spending a lot of our big money on young talent who aren't ready yet. No other club is doing that.

And building for the future at the expense of the present makes no sense in football because every year you do poorly, you lose a lot of money which hurts your future. Each place in the Premier League costs you around 755K pounds so the difference between winning and finishing lower in the table is millions If you don't make the CL which is unlikely but possible for us, it can cost you up to 35M. Us not making it past the group stages cost something like 15-20M. So, the value of buying players for the future is completely shot if you don't win. Us not having a better team this season is going to cost us millions and millions of pounds which in turn will make us have less money to spend next summer which will make it harder to compete long-term.

We spent £250 million, but 1/5th of that was on Torres who is probably the biggest flop ever. Maybe in the years 2008-2010 our transfers were horrible but they were the result of short-term thinking. In fact I think it's much too early to suggest that the transfers from the summer of 2010 have been 'horrible'. The likes of Mata, Cahill, Azpilicueta and Moses all seem to have been good value whilst we've spent big on Courtois, Lukaku, Hazard, De Bruyne and Oscar who are all good prospects for the future.

As for City, they might have bought Nastasic cheaply - they also bought Sinclair, Rodwell, Savic and Balotelli who haven't been quite so good. I don't know what their long-term plan isto be honest. United have made a couple of good signings in Jones, Smalling and Powell but I honestly don't think Fergie is looking that long-term.

We're in a position where we're resetting the way we do things. We had to spend big to achieve parity with the top teams at the start of Abramovich's reign but he clearly wants something more sustainable and I think we're going the right way about it. That might mean some tough years but longer-term I think it's going to pay-off. Of course we'll be expecting improvements next season, and then the season after. People just need a bit of patience and understanding.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

Yes, I'm telling you that. I'm telling you we're not in a position at the moment where we can afford to take chances in league matches by resting our most important player, especially when we have two cup games coming up where he could be rested with lower stakes at risk.

If you want to give up based on that, then fine. But you'll note no-one is saying that we should use the same 11 players every week. Hell, Mata played 50 games last season - I'd be quite happy if he played just 48 this season and they were just the remaining league games.

Of course all this completely ignores the point that he wasn't rested and was eventually brought on much too late.

We aren't in the position Barcelona are in unfortunately.

So we can no longer rest a couple of players at home to QPR at the end of one of the busiest schedules a football club could possibly have. I must have missed the bit where we went from being European Champions with a strong squad to being relegation candidates.

Maybe Rafa thinks we can do something in the cups this year? If we can't rotate (if that's what you can call making a couple of changes) at home to the bottom side then when can you rotate?

Wait if he wasn't rested then what was he?

[The only place to be 11,313]

So we can no longer rest a couple of players at home to QPR at the end of one of the busiest schedules a football club could possibly have. I must have missed the bit where we went from being European Champions with a strong squad to being relegation candidates.

Maybe Rafa thinks we can do something in the cups this year? If we can't rotate (if that's what you can call making a couple of changes) at home to the bottom side then when can you rotate?

Wait if he wasn't rested then what was he?

Did you also miss the bit where we finished last season sixth, got knocked out of the Champions League and that whole two decades where the Champions League became the most important competition in European football?

Did you also miss the bit where we drew against QPR in two of our last three matches? What about the bit where we drew against teams like Fulham and Swansea who aren't the strongest teams in the league? There aren't any easy games in the league so we can't really take chances.

I suppose the idea was to rest Mata by having him on the bench, but it didn't work out so basically every aspect of this strategy failed.

And who gives a fuck if we do something in the cups? The league has to be the priority.