Fernando Torres

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

  On 13/08/2013 at 19:30, Las7 said:

He alone was the difference between us challenging for the title and scrapping for forth last season.

That's ridiculous. Losing at home to teams like QPR, and failing to hold onto an 1-0 or 2-0 advantage were more to blame than Torres.

[Ankit 3,176]

  On 13/08/2013 at 19:30, Las7 said:

No one wants Torres, if they did he would have been sold long time ago. He alone was the difference between us challenging for the title and scrapping for forth last season. A striker that scored 1 goal in 321 minutes on the field for us in the EPL last season and his goals are against some of the worst sides, with the only quality opposition he scored against were Everton and Arsenal virtually any other goal he scored was against Relegation threatened teams. In about 1/3 of the playing time Sturridge scored 11 goals in the EPL, managed to be MOTM against US and Manchester City and scored another goal against United. Lukaku managed a hat trick last season against United and scored a goal at a higher rate than RvP and Suarez in a lesser team. Meantime Torres struggles with virtually the two best chance creators in the Premier League - Mata and Hazard

I certainly believe that if Jose wanted to offload Torres, he would have been offloaded a long time ago as you said! Again, i have to say i am not a Torres fan boy or anything but he certainly wasn't the reason of us losing out on title! We had RDM(fairly inexperienced) and Fat Waiter at helm and we gave away too many leads to either draw or lose! Nothing Torres or any other striker would have done!

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 13/08/2013 at 19:36, Slam Dunk said:

That's ridiculous. Losing at home to teams like QPR, and failing to hold onto an 1-0 or 2-0 advantage were more to blame than Torres.

You can't say Torres has not cost us results last season?

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

  On 13/08/2013 at 19:42, Tomo said:

You can't say Torres has not cost us results last season?

I didn't say that though, did I? I just said he wasn't the sole reason we ended up 3rd instead of 1st.

[Pizy 18,552]

He certainly wasn't the only reason. If he had just had a handful more goals in the league we almost certainly would've finished above City.

Only 8 league goals is an utterly embarrassing tally and it did obviously did cost us points.

[Las7 951]

  On 13/08/2013 at 19:36, Slam Dunk said:

That's ridiculous. Losing at home to teams like QPR, and failing to hold onto an 1-0 or 2-0 advantage were more to blame than Torres.

Yep and who exactly is scoring goals to beat those teams - right we are lacking a striker and playing with 10 men for the majority of the campaign.

  On 13/08/2013 at 19:40, Ankit said:

I certainly believe that if Jose wanted to offload Torres, he would have been offloaded a long time ago as you said! Again, i have to say i am not a Torres fan boy or anything but he certainly wasn't the reason of us losing out on title! We had RDM(fairly inexperienced) and Fat Waiter at helm and we gave away too many leads to either draw or lose! Nothing Torres or any other striker would have done!

There is nothing Jose can do to offload Torres, otherwise he would have offloaded Kaka while at Real Madrid.

If Torres had done his job - scoring goals, we would have been challenging for the title in the League. When your striker's major contribution is loosing the ball and playing for the opposition it's convenient to blame RdM(who wasn't the one that chose Torres) and it certainly isn't the Fat Spanish Waiter who was just an appointment by the board to give Torres one last chance to recapture some form. When you are an unemployed Fat Spanish Waiter and some guys offer you a part time job you take it for some money cause being Fat and Spanish is tough

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 13/08/2013 at 19:53, Slam Dunk said:

I didn't say that though, did I? I just said he wasn't the sole reason we ended up 3rd instead of 1st.

It was the reason we were struggling for 4th, if we had a proper forward we would never be losing at home to QPR, ever!!!

[Zoro 151]

Really wanted Torres to succeed at Chelsea but he has been given enough chances to prove he has some sort of quality left. 8 goals in the league last season is a complete joke. He needs to leave.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

  On 13/08/2013 at 19:34, Ankit said:

4 4 2 is now not used by top teams that extensively now, most of them line up in a 4 3 3 or more so in a 4 2 3 1 formation. Now i am not saying that we don't need a prolific striker but our midfield(esp Lampard) has always scored lots of goals which most of the other teams don't have the luxury of! 2nd highest goals scorers but 3rd in the league, for me that shows that Attack shouldn't be our first priority, midfield and defense is and we already have a much better MF and Defense than last time around!

The Lampard example isnt really an example, it is an exception.It is natural for him to score goals just like it should be for any top striker.

Attack shouldnt be our first priority, because we are not playing to win the Champions League, you'll say different message if you think we have a chance.In the Premier League yes, we should fix our midfield problem, with van Ginkel it seems he has the balls to play for us and perform, I dont think Essien and Mikel can do their job properly to win us the league.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

  On 13/08/2013 at 19:36, Slam Dunk said:

That's ridiculous. Losing at home to teams like QPR, and failing to hold onto an 1-0 or 2-0 advantage were more to blame than Torres.

We lost to QPR because of Torres, who missed a big chance in that game if you remember, and we lost the CWC because of him too, we also lost the Champions League because he wasnt up to the challenge vs Juve, Shakhtar (both games)

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

It's the strikers fault when the team concedes, or when the team fails to hold on to a 2-0 lead? Ok then.

[Las7 951]

  On 13/08/2013 at 20:22, Slam Dunk said:

It's the strikers fault when the team concedes, or when the team fails to hold on to a 2-0 lead? Ok then.

We had 25 matches that we either Won; Drew or Lost with a ONE GOAL MARGIN a striker that actually takes a shot or finishes one of the chances he creates for himself might have not only put us in contention for the title last season but it might have made us Champions. Because even games that were won by a ONE GOAL MARGIN are usually down the the wire and players like Mata; Hazard can not be subbed off for some rest for future matches. If he had done the job for which he was signed - putting the ball in the back of the net we would not have had to battle for the last spot in the CL but instead would have been in our rightful spot over the last decade as challengers - the rest of the squad was more than capable.

Also tell me when he has produced the goods in a big match in the EPL? A performance like Lukaku against United; Sturridge against us and Man City you know a Man of the Match performance with big contribution something that top strikers do on a regular basis

[Zoro 151]

  On 13/08/2013 at 20:22, Slam Dunk said:

It's the strikers fault when the team concedes, or when the team fails to hold on to a 2-0 lead? Ok then.

In football the longer you go without scoring, the more the opposition believes they can get something from the game. If Torres is missing chances or losing possession constantly then eventually our defences comes under pressure. You cant blame only Torres, but he has been a big factor for us losing quite a few games last year.

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

That's a lot of hypotheticals in one post. I'm not saying that without a better striker than Torres, we'd have possibly finished in a better position, it's just your original argument that he was the reason alone why we didn't challenge for the league was laughable.

[Las7 951]

  On 13/08/2013 at 20:30, Slam Dunk said:

That's a lot of hypotheticals in one post. I'm not saying that without a better striker than Torres, we'd have possibly finished in a better position, it's just your original argument that he was the reason alone why we didn't challenge for the league was laughable.

Had we won 3 of the matches we failed to do by a one goal margin(plenty of which were 0-0 draws btw) - we would have hope for the title come May.

QPR we finished 0-0, Torres played 80 minutes did nothing.

Swansea we finished 1-1, Torres wondered around for 90 minutes.

Liverpool we finished 1-1, Torres was actually still playing for Liverpool that match judging by his performance

Man City we finished 0-0, once again Torres put on his Ghost costume for 90 minutes

Fulham we finished 0-0, nothing meaningful from Torres yet again

QPR lost 1-0, not a hope in the World cause Mr. Torres plays 90 again

Reading draw 2-2, no goal

Newcastle lose 3-2, yet again no goal

Liverpool, Tottenham should I mention those two gems 2-2 with yet again Torres getting 180 minutes and doing jack

Tell me how many of those matches might have been effected if we actually had a capable striker up top who didn't either do his best to sabotage his team mates or went into ghost mode.

I'm not saying we would have won the League without Torres I'm saying if we had a capable striker instead like Lukaku; Sturridge we would have been challenging at the very least till April and if we had a World Class one like RvP we would have won.

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

That argument could easily be pulled apart by saying that if we didn't concede once or twice in a match, we wouldn't have lost it. Which has little to do with the striker.

Let's just agree to disagree, because this is getting tedious.

[Special Juan 27,622]

What's getting tedious is we are all hoping Torres still comes good, what sort of sad state of affairs is that?

What annoys me more is the fact he is still here receiving that extra loud Cheer when he scores because people actually feel sorry for him and also the fact Drogba left and we are left with Torres when we should of at least busted a gut to do everything in our power to keep Drogba here to cover the arse of Torres.

[Las7 951]

  On 13/08/2013 at 21:01, Slam Dunk said:

That argument could easily be pulled apart by saying that if we didn't concede once or twice in a match, we wouldn't have lost it. Which has little to do with the striker.

Let's just agree to disagree, because this is getting tedious.

Your opinion states that Torres is not at fault, mine states that if we had a capable striker who didn't have the statistics of mostly loosing the ball; having low passing success %; failed to end up in goal scoring position; failed to pressure defenders inside the box; failing to score one on one chances; failing to have MOTM performances in big matches; failing to score tap ins because he is outside the box; failing to not occupy position which Mata/Lampard/Hazard get into hampering their movement we would have finished higher and finishing higher would mean we challenged for the title.

The same argument could be made in reverse would Barca be a better team without Messi - do you expect them to win more points or less

Would Real be better without Ronaldo - do you expect them to win more points or less

Would Tottenham finished higher without Bale - do you expect them to win more points or less

Would United win the title without RVP - do you expect them to win more points or less

A lot of teams have a clear top player in our case, currently it's Mata if we didn't have Mata last season I would confidently state we would have finished outside the top four, because he is match changer - big matches small matches it doesn't matter he is the full package. The same is applied in the opposite spectrum to Torres.