Does the board see what we see?

[Wavy Crockett 190]

enjoy being a Victor Meldrum you arent worth a discussion

good programme that

[bloody 209]

I get that we should be grateful for the team we have, but I don't think it's a big deal that some people want to keep improving...

the players and the club is above criticism for some fans.

[Kinol 337]

What guys do you think about this ?

Torres to be sold. We can recall KDB and Lukaku.

Marin as sub on the left, sturridge sub striker or on the right. Rambo, mikel, lamps and romeu as sub on the pivot. Ivan as 3th CB and sub of Azpi.

More balanced team without having to spend a lot of money. We will be more than ok for Fifa Fair Play.

The only thing ppl praise torres for is his link up play, but if link up play we want form our striker we might aswell play like this with hazard on the top.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

I don't understand neither the board or RdM's insistence on using Torres every game. Sure he is making 175k p/w and cost us 50 million pounds but it's about time we stop being slaves to his wages and transfer fee. The fact is the board and RdM felt that at least for 6 months having Torres and Sturridge would be enough - we might have tried to sign someone to replace Sturridge but in the end he is our second choice striker. Right now Sturridge has had about 180 minutes on the pitch compared to 1500 minutes for Torres out there. We have no idea what exactly he bring to the table at this point.

With Torres people are pointing at his link up play but he looses the ball more often than combining with other team mates. He gets dispossessed 3 times per match; his passes lead to turnovers 2 times per match; his passing accuracy is in the low 70% when most players playing in his position have better accuracy than him; he scored 7 goals in 1500 minutes on the pitch averages a shot on target once in 90 minutes and is unable to fashion chances for himself.

Torres might be a very likable chap, but simply put he is playing to a degree which is to be expected from any average striker in the EPL, not a degree that should guarantee him a first team spot in the team or 90 minutes every game.

No matter how troubling Sturridge might be in training at the start of the season RdM felt that two strikers would be enough, but compared to pretty much any other top team in the EPL the amount of time our second striker has played is minuscule. And we are not talking about Torres performing even to the level of RvP - who is still given a rest in favor of Chica and Welbeck, we are talking about a lot of average performances.

I love you.

[zolayes 14,489]

the players and the club is above criticism for some fans.

it was the TIMING of this thread ,,,We had JUST got an amazing win

[Stingray 9,441]

If everything is relative than relativity itself is relative. Subjective and objective reality are inclusive.

This is actually vaild and true from an epistemological and philosophical point of view. 'nough said.

[zolayes 14,489]

This is actually vaild and true from an epistemological and philosophical point of view. 'nough said.

think I will stick with Real ,Imaginary and Complex Numbers ...much simpler

[teignman 441]

Shakthar were awesome, what a great balanced, settled team....

Our team needs to work on positioning on/off the ball, this will come through training (or it should do)

Love our never say die attitude though, that's something that cannot be underestimated...

This what impressed me most about Shakhtar. They are an extremely cohesive unit. They may not be highly talented at every position, but they know their system inside and out and execute it with aplomb. We, on the other hand, are still struggling at times to find our feet and get our players on the same page. However, there are a lot of bright spots that suggest that this group will gel into something fantastic. I'm sure the board sees this, and also realizes that there are still some holes to be filled in our squad. My confidence in the board is infinitely higher now than it was at this time last season.

The "never say die" attitude is quite impressive as well. We had a bit of it before, but the players we are adding are young, hungry, and have a lot of character. When you've had to endure some of the hardships and/or tragedies that the likes of Oscar, Moses, and Ramires have, being down a goal in a critical match pales in comparison.

[manpe 10,861]

it was the TIMING of this thread ,,,We had JUST got an amazing win

Amazing win or lucky win? Maybe the fact that we rode our luck in a must win game after drawing to swansea and cheaply giving away our leadership gave some inspiration, or would you have preferred to wait another day or two to face the music?

[Reddish-Blue 2,509]

Hopefully we can offload Torres and bring in a better all round striker.

[zolayes 14,489]

Amazing win or lucky win? Maybe the fact that we rode our luck in a must win game after drawing to swansea and cheaply giving away our leadership gave some inspiration, or would you have preferred to wait another day or two to face the music?

TEN MINUTES after a win I am still celebrating....There is something sad about anyone who doesn't...

[RamiCFC9 258]

TEN MINUTES after a win I am still celebrating....There is something sad about anyone who doesn't...

This win was with bitter taste tbh.We only won because of luck and were outplayed by Shaktar and that at home.I also felt sorry for the Ukranians, because they play really nice football and that without diving and some shit like that.

[Kez 2,727]

This win was with bitter taste tbh.We only won because of luck and were outplayed by Shaktar and that at home.I also felt sorry for the Ukranians, because they play really nice football and that without diving and some shit like that.

Pffft. Do you not remember all the bad luck we've had in this competition? I'm sure barca werent celebrating with a bitter taste in 2009 or Liverpool in 2005. Sometimes you get the luck & sometimes you don't. That's what the CL is all about & I for one will take any luck that's thrown at us after the shit we've had to put up with in recent years.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

The first thing we should change is our formation from 4:2:3:1 to 4:3:3.

1.) Defenders are more used to it (Terry, Cahill, Luiz, Cole, Iva,...because we have been playing it all time for past few years)

2.) In 4:2:3:1, central midfield is not fluid enough with attacking midfield.

3.) As attacking team, having double pivot pair is only making us more deffensive.

4.) Rambo is much more suited for 4:3:3 play as LM or RM or B2B player, he is to weak to play on double pivot along Mikel as he cannot connect central midfield with Oscar, Mata and Hazard. Neither can Mikel

5.) Next year, we get KDB who SHOULD play role of Frank Lampard in 4:3:3 system. He would be wasted on double pivot, too defensive, while there would be no space for him in trio behind striker, if we play 4.2.3.1

6.) Moses is (could be) fantastic winger, speed, ball control, eventualy crossing and shooting. In 4.2.3.1, his wing role is very restricted since we dont play wide enough.

7.) Connection between wingers (attack) and fullbacks (defence) would be much better. The ball would travel much faster, giving option to fast counter attacks. Counter attacks in this current formation we play, are impossible.

8.) Barca plays 4:3:3. We ''copy'' barca. Therefore, we should play 4:3:3 formation, as it offers best possible attack.

9:) Formation 4:2:3:1 is source of our problems. As we dont have deeplying midfielder with defensive abilities, we cant control the game and keep possesion. We lose ball a lot in midfield and thats why we concede so many problems.

And here is how we should play:

Iva(Azpi)-Terry-Luiz(Cahill)-Cole(Bertrand)

-----------------Mikel(Romeu)------------------

---------Oscar(Mata)-Ramires(Kdb)----------

-----Mata(Moses)-STRIKER*-Hazard--------

Sure, Hazard and Mata would have to addapt more wide play, but they could also play more centraly if they wanted. Not so wide, similar to Cazorla, when he still played for Malaga (he was winger, but still played very centraly).

Perhaps the weakest part would be Mikel. I realy like how Mikel is doing better and better, but realisticaly I can see him in DM position only if he plays in double pivot, along someone faster. In 4:3:3 system, he might not be fast enough to cover whole midfield, but in that case we only need to buy Wanyama who is fantastic, perfect for that role. Fast, strong, tall, powefull shooter and very mature. Add a world class striker to that and we should be superb in 1-2 seasons.

4:2:3:1 formation has far too many mistakes; The midfield is too open for opponents to counter attack. We cannot keep possesion because our midfield pair of Mikel and Rambo does not posses technical skill, required to pass the ball from midfield to Attacking midfield. Because of that, we keep loosing possesion and we concede many goals. By keeping possession (with creative midfield), we would then control the game, not concede so many goals and score many more than we do now.

Any thoughts?

[SeB 1,281]

@Las7, Look at Torres' dispossessing and turnovers figures from 2009 and 2010... Holy fuck, he scored 18 and lost the ball as many times!

Look at the amount of passes player per game, raw passing figures are irrelevant for strikers... Most strikers plays between 15 and 30 passes per game depending to their playing style, the role given in the pattern of play etc... Rates are irrelevant as well, there has to be enough passes to work on. You shall notice that the more there's game played, the more rates lows considering you don't make an excellent game everyweek

Look at Owen in 2009/2010: 195/215 successful passes: 90.7% comes ahead Mikel (1192/1328, 89.8%) and Scholes (1441/1616, 89.2%)... who is stupid enough to say that Sinclair (93.5%, 86/92) or Owen are better passer than the two latters?

[Strike 7,492]

I get that we should be grateful for the team we have, but I don't think it's a big deal that some people want to keep improving...

the players and the club is above criticism for some fans.

nah. we can't "Criticise" the board atm.. We have turned over a profit (deducting a 67mil loss) and the season is going according to plan. Sure we've hit a few wobbles recently but no need to criticise the board. We had a wobble in September (Atletico, QPR, Juve) and recovered well. We have a good team with good depth and are playing quality football. a little porous at the back i suppose but the Board can't do anything about that. the torres persistence seems to put off ppl but apart from that, there is no reason to criticise the board

[Las7 951]

@Las7, Look at Torres' dispossessing and turnovers figures from 2009 and 2010... Holy fuck, he scored 18 and lost the ball as many times!

Holy fuck, he scores about one goal every 250 minutes while getting dispossessed.

Season 2009/2010 was the last season when Torres was genuinely World Class player - the point is that him getting dispossessed more often than Ba; RvP; Defoe; Suarez; Dzeko while having the lowest passing average out of those players, while people are banging on about his link up play is pointless. What's the point of link up play when 30% of your passes are lost; and when you dribble into opposition players and leave us exposed for counter attacks.

Look at the amount of passes player per game, raw passing figures are irrelevant for strikers... Most strikers plays between 15 and 30 passes per game depending to their playing style, the role given in the pattern of play etc... Rates are irrelevant as well, there has to be enough passes to work on. You shall notice that the more there's game played, the more rates lows considering you don't make an excellent game everyweek

Most strikers have higher average success rate than Torres; don't get dispossessed as easily without drawing a foul and don't allow opposition teams to easily take the ball off them and leave their team exposed on the counter attack. We have Hazard; Mata and Oscar we don't need to have a striker overestimating his capability - when he is obviously struggling at beating players.

For every time Torres returns into midfield or the wing to receive a ball and try to beat a player or pass to his team mate and he looses the ball. This leads to a counter attack by the opposition while one of our players was pulled out of position and took up the position Torres was supposed to be - leading the line.

To say that the figures I've posted are not a problem is ungenuine - especially when you have eyes and you have witnessed the countless times he looses the ball with ease while we are in transition. Currently this leads to major problems which teams who know how to play on the counter attack know how to make the most of.

Look at Owen in 2009/2010: 195/215 successful passes: 90.7% comes ahead Mikel (1192/1328, 89.8%) and Scholes (1441/1616, 89.2%)... who is stupid enough to say that Sinclair (93.5%, 86/92) or Owen are better passer than the two latters?

There is two reasons why Owen's stats are so high for 2009 to 2010 season.

-he doesn't take any risks with his passing when he is up top

-he played as a substitute or in lesser competition

So that particular season he had 20 substitute appearances out of 31 games, that would mean he comes on when an opposition team is already tired of pressing United and allow him more time on the ball to pick his pass. As a low risk passer it would also mean than when he doesn't see an obvious option he won't try anything fancy but return the ball and allow someone like Scholes to actually try to pass. That's absolutely fantastic for a striker to do - unless they have a passing range close to Berbatov's; Rooney's; RvP's; Totti's; Ibra's - a striker's job especially coming on as a substitute is to simply keep possession and make himself available in good positions. There is little point in Owen trying to play a Hollywood ball which allows the opposition team to regroup - rather he gives the ball to a better passer rather than taking unnecessary risks.

I have not watched enough of Sinclair's last season to comment but generally I have watched all our rivals whenever I had a chance in the last 10 seasons so I have a bit of insight regarding Owen's stats