Closed Chelsea v Manchester United

[Chelsea? 892]

No it's not, your all slagging the guy off (with made up stats sometimes), fact is he has 2:1 goal ratio which is good, his conversion rate of clear cut chances is better than RVPs this year, he has won more aerial duels than anyone else in the team and he is third in terms of key passes.

Getting tired of the constant criticism of the guy. We don't win it's Torres fault, we do win and he obviously did nothing.... can only imagine what kind of fracas would have occurred on here had it been he rather than Hazard who practically gifted Shaktar there second goal.

to be fair Danny had a better goal ratio when he played for us and Bolton I believe. we also need a #9 that can score when things are going bad.

[Chelsea? 892]

I like Sturridge, I think he should start games over Nando (who has started every game this year) but Utd is not the time to throw him in the deep end of leading the line. Anyone arguing otherwise needs to prove to me that he can do it.

Danny shouldn't start against united but he should have played against Shakta. OOscar should have been rested too.

[Las7 951]

Ok I kinda understand your fustration, but First and foremost, we have to understand that Sturridge has never started a game this season, and even though he has played a handful of minutes here and there as a sub, it's hasn't been enough time for him to familiarize with our new attacking player. Whereas Torres who has started almost every match, has already showed us, he can link up with our attacking playmakers. (well atleast when he wants to)

How many matches did Bertrand start before the CL final?

If he is fit enough he should start simple as that - because he offers more than Torres. Like I've said Torres's link up play is nothing special he has 71% passing accuracy which is nothing spectacular when over 70% of his passes are sideways or backwards, when we have Mata; Hazard and Oscar always moving into channels.

So it's not about Sturridge is in a better form than torres, hell!! Most of the strikers in pl must be better than him currently, (so comparing with our rivals is not even a question, Obvsly dey are better) but out of all the strikers, we only have Torres who is familiar to our system and players. This is the sole reason why he will be picked.

Torres will be picked because he is a bigger name, Sturridge trains with the same players and within the same system as Torres; he knows most of our players for a longer time than Fernando - Sturridge is not some striker we bought this summer who is still adapting to the EPL and our team.

Have you thought without Torres, our attacking players (hazard, Oscar and Mata) have an average height of a midget, and would provide no threat whatsoever in any kind of aerial duel (Sturridge being the same). Imagine out of all the 5 attackers upfront, non of them having atleast the capability to challenge for a duel, that is just ridiculous. And your statement that if we End up playing long ball, we wil concede possession is sound, but in a 90 min game we will have to throw long ball ocassionally, you think Sir Af won't try to capitalize on this weakness?? What if the United players put pressure high up the pitch, and Cech has the ball, he can't keep holding it can he?? He will be forced to throw a long ball, even if we don't wanna, and when this happens we would need a target man,and that role is better suited for Torres than Sturridge. Same in set pieces (defending or attacking) Torres height will be key as it would add another threat/marker. And it doesn't matter if his good at defending or not, cause the reason he is there is not because he is good, but because we don't have any option as we lack players with height, so torres is simply there out of necessity, a necessity that Sturridge can't help us with!

Torres - Height, 1.83 m (6 ft 0 in)

Sturridge - Height, 1.88 m (6 ft 2 in)

Yeah Torres is much more of an aerial threat than Sturridge in winning long balls or helping the defenders due to his height and Sturridge being a MIDGET!

And Agreed!! Torres might be bad, as he seems to have lost his pace so he can no longer beat defenders like he used to, and he looks too scared to shoot and miss. But one thing Torres does is stretch the back line, he will pull them left, right and center, not to mention he leads the line really well (well not really true), and most important thing is he creates space for our playmaker , that you cant deny!!!

You think stretching the back line by moving to the wing is something that exemplifies Torres from criticism about him never making runs in the box trying to beat his markers?

Fact is that any half decent forward can stretch the defense for such skillful players that require very little space to operate like Hazard; Mata and Oscar.

Ps: I wonder why Torres never got any rest specially in Cl this week, because it would've been the perfect time to check out Sturridge, and how he would fare. Plus Torres would get some rest too. Maybe RDM has a secretive plan to play Sturridge afterall

We shall find out, Torres looked nakered when he came off

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Can we please not turn this into yet another Sturridge vs Torres thread?

I can't believe red nose is blaming the refereeing for not winning at the bridge the last 10 visits, especially considering what happened last year with the two non-existent penalties.

[Tricky 301]

Danny shouldn't start against united but he should have played against Shakta. OOscar should have been rested too.

I'd rather start him against slightly weaker opposition.

Might have been better to start Beyrand against Shaktar, they really out fought us in midfield. But hey I'm putting that performance down to fatigue, having played only 48 hrs before and traveling thousands of miles to an away game. It takes it's toll on players, people forget this isn't FM.

[ANDRECHO 432]

------------cech----------

ferreira-------luiz-----cahill-----cole

---------mikel--------rambo---------

mata---------oscar---------bertrand-

----------------torres-----------------

Come on boys you know that .....

[Milan 17,853]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtaHNFAeE4g

[Jype 6,398]

@SkySportsStatto: Chelsea are the only side in PL history with more wins (13) than defeats (12) against Man U

[Rmpr 8,977]

We can win it, I am just afraid they will do another Southamptom. RVP and Rooney does look scary.

[Milan 17,853]

@SkySportsStatto: Chelsea are the only side in PL history with more wins (13) than defeats (12) against Man U

Let's hope we can prolong this run. Still, we have the best record at Old Trafford, no other English club gained more points there than us. At home, we want the same!

[RamiCFC9 258]

The thing is I would bet AGAINST Torres scoring every game and ill win, but if I do that with Sturridge, Ill probably end homeless because the guy is a real treat."Throwing Sturridge in the deep against ManU" is massively shit statement remembering what he did to evra last year.

[Tricky 301]

If he is fit enough he should start simple as that - because he offers more than Torres. Like I've said Torres's link up play is nothing special he has 71% passing accuracy which is nothing spectacular when over 70% of his passes are sideways or backwards

I agree his pass completion is poor, but he is third in key passes per game behind Mata then Hazard.

And as for passes sideways and backwards, he does play as CF, our most advance player. I'd be shocked if his passes forward was bigger than his sideways backwards percentage. In fact I'd be screaming for him to play higher up the pitch.

Having said that Danny should get his chance, but against weaker opponents, till we can be sure he can deliver (I think he can).

[Django 83]

Approaching this game with no fear. We have a good record against them at home and there are definitely goals in our side. No result would surprise me but I'm optimistically pegging this as a relative comfortable Chelsea win, 3-1 maybe.

[BOSS 372]

Man United is the team i hate the most in the EPL. I even hate them more than Arsenal/Spurs.

[Laylabelle 9,351]

Not confident mainly cause its man u! Jammy players and if anything like last year jammy ref decisons

[TheCount 146]

Fair point but I don't think that would be a reason for RDM to start him. I think it comes down due to the fact that he believes Torres works well with the team and although Torres has his off games we are managing to win our league games even if it means him not getting on the scoresheet whereas Sturridge is not a proven out and out striker, even though I believe he has what ti takes to get bags of goals in the CF position

Torres dose work better, already knew this i was adding points to his favour. It wouldnt be THE reason but it was defo be A reason.

Torres may have alot more experience but he as alot less motivation, confidence and at the moment; skill.

Extra height? I hope that was a joke.

Defensive responsibilities. I get so mad when I hear about that. Like seriousley, do we want a CF with defensive responsibilities or one that scores so he doesnt have to track back?

Height is important,End of story. As i said above Drogba headed out 90% of balls from corners and set pieces when he plays, so do i want my CF defending? if he can score and do both why the hell not? i get mad when people think they shouldnt be part of the overall team or pull their weight or just have OTHER responsibilities just because their a striker...

sturridge actually deserves a stint in the centre-forward role. torres has been average at best so far. he has had a lot of chances and has simply refused to pull the trigger at times. that shows his confidence. i don't know what you are onto when you say extra height because torres is not exactly a great header of the ball and as for defensive responsibilities? do u think we will play 11 men behind the ball again?

What the hell is wrong with people, so defending means 11 behind the ball? cant just defend well and attack well anymore? has to be one or other ? i really dont know anymore can a team not be good at everything anymore? instead of just being attacking or defending? yanno before these "barca days" where if you dont play tika taka teams never have the ball on the ground and defending is a dirty word, teams did a bit of everything and were more balanced.

Regardless of if Torres is "good" at defensive headers and attacking or not, he's better then sturridge in the air thats for sure, so he should be picked. Tomorrow is not the day to take a chance on if sturridge should play or not.

Have you actually seen Torres defend from set pieces? they highlighted him on Chelsea tv the other day they showed around 3 or 4 set pieces from different games where balls were played into the box and every time Torres was just literally standing there and not following his man, its one thing being tall and another actually being able to defend a set piece.

As said above he's still better then sturridge, also if you notice in the matches highlight *most* was where terry was not on the pitch to boss the line and organize, we suffer when someone dosent take responsibility regardless of if torres does his job or not, also hazard mata or oscar are of know use to us in these situations either.....Torres has his jobs and he deos them as RDM says, he's always happy with his contribution and so far bar the odd bad game this year i am to. Thats not to say i dont think he could do a million times better.

I also love the irony of most of these people love drogba a player who did everything i suggested above, but would rather a player or a team that dose none lol. Funny stuff.

[Las7 951]

Height is important,End of story. As i said above Drogba headed out 90% of balls from corners and set pieces when he plays, so do i want my CF defending? if he can score and do both why the hell not? i get mad when people think they shouldnt be part of the overall team or pull their weight or just have OTHER responsibilities just because their a striker...

Torres - Height, 1.83 m (6 ft 0 in)

Sturridge - Height, 1.88 m (6 ft 2 in)

So if height is important we should play Sturridge

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

1. Torres is taller than Studge. I know he is listed everywhere as 1.88m but that is simply not true there are shitloads of photos that prove different. A friend of mine has a photo with studge which was shot when he randomly met him in London and they are very much the same height at straight posture. That friend is waay shorter than me and I am 1.88m.

Anyway height is not necessarily a factor in aerial challenges. It's about timing, leap and technique. Hence I'd favor Torres with regard to that aspect cos he clearly is the more prolific guy at headers.

2. It would be a bit strange to give Studge his first start against ManUtd. RDM has kept faith in Torres after worse displays than against Shaktar. I am sure, RDM has good reasons for not starting Studge in Ukraine and against Wolves e.g. where it would not have harmed Torres confidence. Maybe he is not fit right now.

3.Torres always has something in his locker, esp against ManUtd. He might be a mediocre striker right now and will never again be the guy who set the world on fire in 2008 but he has shown glimpses of it with his goal against Newcastle and in particular with his finish and cross in the ManU games last season respectively.

4. Lamps is a massive loss for this game whether he would have started or not.As a sub his lack of pace would not have been an issue. Even though his playmaking abilites might not be required his scoring certainly is. He is one of our very few natural finishers and he is about the only guy I would be certain of converting a penalty. With Utds clumsy defense I am perfectly sure we should get a few situations worth a penalty, whilst I am equally aware that we will get none.

5. The ref's performance will be crucial as usually against them. Whilst in 2009/10 the refs where bad as fuck but did not manage to stop us from regaining the EPL crown in glorious fasion beating the reds devils twice, in 2010/11 they were tolerable (of course as always favouring Utd more or less) in 2011/12 they cost us at least 3 points at least. at OT they allowed 2 clearly offside goals for Utd to stand, at the bridge they got unrightfully rewarded 2 fuckin penalties to equalise. I am a bit afraid of 10 minutes fergie time if we are about to win and no drogba to make fun of them at their own corner flag with atrocious skills ( but I am sure hazard can do so too)