🇳🇬 Victor Moses

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

Did you see his ball for Demba Ba yesterday? Also is his finishing still bad now eh?

Yeah, his through balls are excellent. There's a lot of potential there and he adds a whole different dynamic to the attacking 3, something I wish Hazard would do more of, but Hazard isn't built like this monster.

[DYC. 7,542]

We knew his end of product was the facet he had to improve, but he's not been signed to score goals and be the main provider this season. He fills perfectly his job to be a rotation player.

What he offers more than Hazard & co ? He tracks back all game long, he makes runs and doesn't moves into space like a complete dummy (i.e: Hazard waiting for the ball onto his feet).

Moses is 22, he's been signed on his potential to fulfill, it's been 3 or 4 years that I've a close eye on him and he's raw talent. Just look at how clean and pure is his execution at times, the speed of execution etc... he's a genuine shooting and crossing technique with both feet. What cause him issues right now is that he sometimes pick the wrong option ; still the execution isn't bad. And he doesn't disappear during games, the success of what he attempts may vary but he'll prove to be a threat for his opponent all game long (at the very least to press, occupy his zone)

You just can't criticize a player who runs, defend, takes on etc... all game long at 22. He obviously will have waste but in my opinion that kind of player deserves an awful lot more consideration than Hazard who really offers very little when he's not the key player of a given playing sequence.

Kalou was 26 and spoke in his interviews like if he was a young player, I remember the time when he said "Lukaku, Daniel and I are the young ones" or something like that... Kalou gave the impression to have a potential to fulfill, but 4 years later he was as bad as he was at 21 or 22. At the start the club planned on a developpement pattern, a bit like Moses.

Your opinion seems to be "Moses won't fulfill that potential" and I respect that, I mean as much that opinion than mine (the opposite) are projections. Both of us don't know what will eventually happen.

Still, I think that given Moses' personal background, given the thickness of his game (defensively, attacking, tactically, the variation, consistency etc...) at just 22 I think he has enough to become at least a good player. Moses already offers more than Kalou and Hazard at the same age

Very harsh on Hazard. Bar Mata, he's the player who creates the most chances. He's a good passer who doesn't give the ball away often, even under pressure. He holds the ball well. He creates space. Not with his movement, which does needs to improve, but with his great dribbling (which also pushes the opposition to push back). Most can't take the ball away from him without fouling him and he draws a incredible amount of fouls because of it (offering us many set-piece opportunities and forcing opposition players to play more carefully.

He's scored a few goals, 2nd highest assist provider in the team. And while he didn't defend much at the start of his career here, his work-rate and defensive play has improved a lot the past few months compared to first. He's no work-horse but that's not what he was brought here. His intercepting in particular stands out in particular, averaging 1.3 interceptions per game. You won't find many in his position with such a figure.

How is that offering very little? And Hazard is younger than Moses btw, in reply to the last part of your post.

I do agree with you on Moses though.

[Marvin123 534]

i think Moses passing is underrated

i believe now we have a striker in BA he will make runs and Moses will find him a lot

see that cross for what would of beens BAs hattrick? WOWZER

[Yeboii 1,844]

We knew his end of product was the facet he had to improve, but he's not been signed to score goals and be the main provider this season. He fills perfectly his job to be a rotation player.

What he offers more than Hazard & co ? He tracks back all game long, he makes runs and doesn't moves into space like a complete dummy (i.e: Hazard waiting for the ball onto his feet).

Moses is 22, he's been signed on his potential to fulfill, it's been 3 or 4 years that I've a close eye on him and he's raw talent. Just look at how clean and pure is his execution at times, the speed of execution etc... he's a genuine shooting and crossing technique with both feet. What cause him issues right now is that he sometimes pick the wrong option ; still the execution isn't bad. And he doesn't disappear during games, the success of what he attempts may vary but he'll prove to be a threat for his opponent all game long (at the very least to press, occupy his zone)

You just can't criticize a player who runs, defend, takes on etc... all game long at 22. He obviously will have waste but in my opinion that kind of player deserves an awful lot more consideration than Hazard who really offers very little when he's not the key player of a given playing sequence.

Kalou was 26 and spoke in his interviews like if he was a young player, I remember the time when he said "Lukaku, Daniel and I are the young ones" or something like that... Kalou gave the impression to have a potential to fulfill, but 4 years later he was as bad as he was at 21 or 22. At the start the club planned on a developpement pattern, a bit like Moses.

Your opinion seems to be "Moses won't fulfill that potential" and I respect that, I mean as much that opinion than mine (the opposite) are projections. Both of us don't know what will eventually happen.

Still, I think that given Moses' personal background, given the thickness of his game (defensively, attacking, tactically, the variation, consistency etc...) at just 22 I think he has enough to become at least a good player. Moses already offers more than Kalou and Hazard at the same age

Pretty harsh on Hazard as he is making a lot of assists and some goals to top it off. Moses is really good but in my opinion Hazard is better.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

How much do you reckon England will regret not getting him to commit to the national team?

[Stingray 9,441]

We knew his end of product was the facet he had to improve, but he's not been signed to score goals and be the main provider this season. He fills perfectly his job to be a rotation player.

What he offers more than Hazard & co ? He tracks back all game long, he makes runs and doesn't moves into space like a complete dummy (i.e: Hazard waiting for the ball onto his feet).

Moses is 22, he's been signed on his potential to fulfill, it's been 3 or 4 years that I've a close eye on him and he's raw talent. Just look at how clean and pure is his execution at times, the speed of execution etc... he's a genuine shooting and crossing technique with both feet. What cause him issues right now is that he sometimes pick the wrong option ; still the execution isn't bad. And he doesn't disappear during games, the success of what he attempts may vary but he'll prove to be a threat for his opponent all game long (at the very least to press, occupy his zone)

You just can't criticize a player who runs, defend, takes on etc... all game long at 22. He obviously will have waste but in my opinion that kind of player deserves an awful lot more consideration than Hazard who really offers very little when he's not the key player of a given playing sequence.

Kalou was 26 and spoke in his interviews like if he was a young player, I remember the time when he said "Lukaku, Daniel and I are the young ones" or something like that... Kalou gave the impression to have a potential to fulfill, but 4 years later he was as bad as he was at 21 or 22. At the start the club planned on a developpement pattern, a bit like Moses.

Your opinion seems to be "Moses won't fulfill that potential" and I respect that, I mean as much that opinion than mine (the opposite) are projections. Both of us don't know what will eventually happen.

Still, I think that given Moses' personal background, given the thickness of his game (defensively, attacking, tactically, the variation, consistency etc...) at just 22 I think he has enough to become at least a good player. Moses already offers more than Kalou and Hazard at the same age

Very very harsh on Hazard. Undeserved and unnuanced in my opinion. Also, Moses can't offer more than Hazard at the same age. Hazard is younger, dude!!

plus: They are two different players whom I both rate high. You seem to forget Hazard is younger, new to the league, is also giving a lot to the team. Your statement that Hazard offers very little is bollocks. Stats are here to support this (besides having sound judgement by just watching games).

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Moses has been fantastic.Yes he is a bit wasteful but his pace,strength and dribbling are awesome.

[Weckerz 3,781]

We knew his end of product was the facet he had to improve, but he's not been signed to score goals and be the main provider this season. He fills perfectly his job to be a rotation player.

What he offers more than Hazard & co ? He tracks back all game long, he makes runs and doesn't moves into space like a complete dummy (i.e: Hazard waiting for the ball onto his feet).

Moses is 22, he's been signed on his potential to fulfill, it's been 3 or 4 years that I've a close eye on him and he's raw talent. Just look at how clean and pure is his execution at times, the speed of execution etc... he's a genuine shooting and crossing technique with both feet. What cause him issues right now is that he sometimes pick the wrong option ; still the execution isn't bad. And he doesn't disappear during games, the success of what he attempts may vary but he'll prove to be a threat for his opponent all game long (at the very least to press, occupy his zone)

You just can't criticize a player who runs, defend, takes on etc... all game long at 22. He obviously will have waste but in my opinion that kind of player deserves an awful lot more consideration than Hazard who really offers very little when he's not the key player of a given playing sequence.

Kalou was 26 and spoke in his interviews like if he was a young player, I remember the time when he said "Lukaku, Daniel and I are the young ones" or something like that... Kalou gave the impression to have a potential to fulfill, but 4 years later he was as bad as he was at 21 or 22. At the start the club planned on a developpement pattern, a bit like Moses.

Your opinion seems to be "Moses won't fulfill that potential" and I respect that, I mean as much that opinion than mine (the opposite) are projections. Both of us don't know what will eventually happen.

Still, I think that given Moses' personal background, given the thickness of his game (defensively, attacking, tactically, the variation, consistency etc...) at just 22 I think he has enough to become at least a good player. Moses already offers more than Kalou and Hazard at the same age

This would be a very good post if it wasn't for the total bullshit about Hazard not offering enough to the team. I really don't understand what some of you expect from Eden.

I wish he cost us 20million or less tbh. His pricetag makes people be way too critical. It's not his fault Chelsea paid that amount of money.

Without taking transfer fee's into account, would you honestly say Moses has more potential than Hazard? Quite staggering if that were the case imho.

Don't get me wrong, I like Moses a lot. I like his intensity, his desire to make things happen, his sharpness. Moses together with Mata and Hazard (or Oscar fwiw) works well, because he offers a more direct approach compared to Mazacar.

But he's also terribly wasteful and when he has a bad game, he's fucking terrible.

PS: Have you seen any games since november? Hazard's workrate and tracking back has improved a LOT for what it's worth. He didn't need to at Lille. He was their main man. He does try to defend now, which btw, restrains his attacking abilities unfortunately.

[Milan 17,957]

4 - Luis Suárez and Victor Moses are the only two players to score in all competitions this season (PL, LC, FAC & Europe). Handy.

[zolayes 14,489]

We knew his end of product was the facet he had to improve, but he's not been signed to score goals and be the main provider this season. He fills perfectly his job to be a rotation player.

What he offers more than Hazard & co ? He tracks back all game long, he makes runs and doesn't moves into space like a complete dummy (i.e: Hazard waiting for the ball onto his feet).

Moses is 22, he's been signed on his potential to fulfill, it's been 3 or 4 years that I've a close eye on him and he's raw talent. Just look at how clean and pure is his execution at times, the speed of execution etc... he's a genuine shooting and crossing technique with both feet. What cause him issues right now is that he sometimes pick the wrong option ; still the execution isn't bad. And he doesn't disappear during games, the success of what he attempts may vary but he'll prove to be a threat for his opponent all game long (at the very least to press, occupy his zone)

You just can't criticize a player who runs, defend, takes on etc... all game long at 22. He obviously will have waste but in my opinion that kind of player deserves an awful lot more consideration than Hazard who really offers very little when he's not the key player of a given playing sequence.

Kalou was 26 and spoke in his interviews like if he was a young player, I remember the time when he said "Lukaku, Daniel and I are the young ones" or something like that... Kalou gave the impression to have a potential to fulfill, but 4 years later he was as bad as he was at 21 or 22. At the start the club planned on a developpement pattern, a bit like Moses.

Your opinion seems to be "Moses won't fulfill that potential" and I respect that, I mean as much that opinion than mine (the opposite) are projections. Both of us don't know what will eventually happen.

Still, I think that given Moses' personal background, given the thickness of his game (defensively, attacking, tactically, the variation, consistency etc...) at just 22 I think he has enough to become at least a good player. Moses already offers more than Kalou and Hazard at the same age

this is the Moses thread so I guess its the place to say I HATE PEANUT BUTTER and Marmite is much worse than chips

[BlueJewel 56]

Glad we got him instead of Hulk and his huge price tag, he along with Dave have been absolute bargain signings for the club. I guess this is the new Chelsea way, no more spending huge moneys on players who don't deserve it.

[zolayes 14,489]

But why must we have these subjective comparisons; both players imo bring quality to the squad . I am delighted with the contribution Moses has made but do not think anything is

added by crtiticism of Hazard .Eden is a flair player the type we have been screaming for since Robben left . Now he is here lets accept him him whole heartedly

[DYC. 7,542]

@SeB

That's football. Everybody has their jobs and if you lack in certain key areas, you'll have to compensate by providing in other areas to make it at the top. I'm sure Dirk Kuyt for example provides a more all-round contribution than let's say, Cristiano Ronaldo. But it is the latter who is wanted all over the world, not the former.

Like I said before, I agree with you on Moses but you could even look at Messi at a negative angle if you wanted to.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

@SeB

That's football. Everybody has their jobs and if you lack in certain key areas, you'll have to compensate by providing in other areas to make it at the top. I'm sure Dirk Kuyt for example provides a more all-round contribution than let's say, Cristiano Ronaldo. But it is the latter who is wanted all over the world, not the former.

Like I said before, I agree with you on Moses but you could even look at Messi at a negative angle if you wanted to.

But he was not criticizing Hazard, in fact the first post was about Moses and had nothing to do with Hazard. He just said that Moses provided more than Eden in a certain area. Everyone just took it personally as if he had insulted Hazard's honor. It's ridiculous how you get attacked here when you make a point about Hazard even if that point is completely valid.

[Corner 456]

But he was not criticizing Hazard, in fact the first post was about Moses and had nothing to do about Hazard. He just said that Moses provided more than Eden in a certain area. Everyone just took it personally as if he had insulted Hazard's honor. It's ridiculous how you get attacked here when you make a point about Hazard even if that point is completely valid.

Criticize Hazard - Get attacked

Compliment Mikel - Get attacked

Compliment Luiz - Get attacked

That's the way it is on this forum, it seems.

[DYC. 7,542]

But he was not criticizing Hazard, in fact the first post was about Moses and had nothing to do about Hazard. He just said that Moses provided more than Eden in a certain area. Everyone just took it personally as if he had insulted Hazard's honor. It's ridiculous how you get attacked here when you make a point about Hazard even if that point is completely valid.

I didn't attack him. Apparently I misunderstood what he meant with the part of his post saying Hazard contributes little. But he has already explained what he meant.

My point was Hazard + Mata + Oscar inexperienced + ... + ... At the end of the day that's massively inbalanced.

Your answer is a bit similar to Benitez's on rotation lol, I obviously understand how teams keep their balance with 11 players with different roles. My point was on the current situation, Hazard has not matched my expectations given what he's able to do.

If you have one player who create inbalance for the opponents and bangs you goals, gives assists... but barely defends such as Mata, you can always compensate. Our front three at the start of the season was kind of suicidal and if Mata, Oscar did their best related to their athletic abilities ; I didn't have the same feeling about Hazard. Not saying he was 35% of what he can do but something like 85%, 90% and despite the amount of games played.

Everytime I saw Hazard in France I had the odd feeling he's not that hungry to improve, despite the brilliance he was able to produce on a regular basis.

I agree, it was imbalanced. In fact, I said so before Di Matteo even started using Oscar but then I got a bunch of replies saying they're so great and that it will work, we have the double pivot to defend etc.

Fair enough on Hazard, that's your opinion. Personally I prefer to focus on his offensive contributions, ability on the ball and decisiveness, in the same way that is the case with the best offensive players in world football. As I do believe he has what it takes to be among the best. Nobody was discussing Ronaldinho's all-round contribution and him lacking defensively when he was the star man in Barca's CL succes, same with Kaka and the same with Cristiano Ronaldo.

[DYC. 7,542]

My opinion sounds excessive but my initial point was that I expect a bit more from Hazard defensively. We all know his best use will be with enlarged freedom (but relevant freedom, I don't know if you watch Wigan at times, their interchanging front three is really working).

But enlarged freedom means basic pressing, positioning when the ball is lost... Not a matter of abilities, adaptation, stepovers; just a matter of instructions and team ethic.

Mata, Sturridge and Hazard hasn't even been doing that basic stuff when the ball was lost ; resulting most of our defensive woes.

Like I said in a earlier post, I think you're harsh on Hazard's defensive contribution. He's no work-horse but it's not like he does nothing. Again, 1.3 interceptions per game for example.

And the attacking players are often asked to drop too deep imo, forcing them to cover a lot of ground. That's fine when you have the likes of Young, Valencia, Moses etc on the flanks. But for our team It would be much better if the lines were kept much closer and there was more focus on pressing collectively.

[Stingray 9,441]

I don't know if I managed to make my point clear enough.

Exactly. You refined your initial statements, and I thank you for it. Please do not forget we are not psychics that can mindread. Apparently there were a lot of hidden assumptions underlying your argument. Now I heard them, I can even relte to them. But without the context you just gave, it sounded to harsh.

Ps: this has nothing to do with not criticizing Hazard = getting attacked @corner or @Choulo19. If you raise an argument and you feel it is valid but others do not get it (even though it is merely due to lack of context or not knowing the assumptions underlying the argument - which is the responsability of whoever puts forth the initial argument), you can except a debate. Nobody trashed you or anything - at least not in my view.

However: if you can criticize and others can't respond .... well, thats like playing tennis with the net down for your serve and the net back up for the return. It's also a little intellectually unfair. Debate is a debate. All sides/arguments can and must have their say.

That said, now you explained I can relate to your argument. Still ... regarding the argument :

You've several ways to be involved in an attacking playing sequence: You can ask the ball to get it and make the difference You can put others in good positions, try to shift the opponent's block You can make a false call to create space You can stay rooted to fix a defender Defensively, there's tracking back, close the channel, the actual defending etc...

I think besides 1 and 2, he also does 3 and 4, though you apparently don't see this from him (so your argument is more than just about defending, not?). The defending part I agree on. He sucks on that.

Sorry for the off topic, Moses :-) Hope that clarifies why I found it harsh, Seb.

[different level 1,056]

I am cheering for all the teams playing Nigeria in AcoN, so we can have Moses and Mikel at our disposal as soon as possible.

[Hamilton 2,120]

How is he doing? Bad i hope..