🇧🇷 Oscar

[lionsden 4,689]

@CFC888 I was going to reply to your post and then I noticed your avi picture and favourite player and suddenly it all makes sense How you are defending Oscar so passionately and that it would simply be a waste of time to engage you in this debate.

[lionsden 4,689]

I personally feel that Oscar is an important part of our team. Sure he isn't up there with the best no.10s in the world yet but he's still the 2nd best no.10 in the PL (behind Silva, who is awesome tbh). He's better than Mata, Coutinho, Ozil and Eriksen (who are all very good themselves) IMO because he is very good in defence as well as being good in attack too. He effectively links our midfield and our attack and is contributing with a large amount of goals and assists so far this season.

He's nowhere near the complete player and hasn't progressed as much as most of us were hoping but he is still very young and has time to keep developing to make himself into a top player. He needs to work on his passing (which at times can be erratic - so frustrating to watch a player play a 25 yard through ball perfectly then muff up a 5 yard sideways pass) and his worrying tendency to go missing in games (doesn't happen that often to be fair, but still worrying).

I personally still have high hopes for him to make his passing game more complete and to become more consistent as a footballer. He's currently a very good footballer and is an important player in our system. Unless we plan on signing someone notably better than him in his position (Who is there really? Isco? Doubt he's available for a non-ridiculous price) I am very happy to persist with believing in Oscar and hoping that he will develop his game in the next 2/3 years and can become a Chelsea legend.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Great comment. City game last year at the Etihad (I think it was the Etihad because we were the first team to beat them there all season), which was a massive game, Ramires started ahead of Oscar and was brilliant with Luiz and Matic in a 3 man midfield.

Anyway anyone using the excuse that Oscar doesn't look as good as Hazard because he isn't flashy is quite frankly a moron. What a stupid thing to say. Hazards consistency and end ball is miles ahead of Oscar's as well as the fact he takes the game to the opposition most times whenever he can.

no, I implied that Hazard looks better than he actually is because he is flashy, and Oscar doesn't look as good as he actually is, because he isn't. If you disagree, or even think it's also a moronic idea, that's fine by me.

Some players like? Who in the CFC team is only flashy and elegant but doesn't get criticised? I hope you're not talking about Eden because's Eden's is streets ahead of Oscar.

You can't justify this or how good Oscar is by targeting other players in the team sorry...

It says a lot that if Oscar got suspended or injured for some time that we wouldn't really miss him at all.

Eden is indeed ahead of Oscar even though they are very different players even complementary! The difference however, isn't as big as people make it out to be. Eden has had quite a few quiet games lately including this week against Liverpool. His measurable contribution was low. He's had very quiet runs of games too, like in the world cup. Against City away Eden couldn't complete a single play. Against Liverpool he had trouble assisting, squandering an excellent chance when Oscar was completely open and he put too much weight on his pass. Assists and goals decide games not dribbling on its own.

For me both of them need to improve. Again, Hazard is indeed ahead of Oscar, but both need improving to get to the next stage in their careers, and begin challenge the top players. And Chelsea need both of them to become better players, to become a force in Europe and challenge Real, Bayern, and Barcelona - don't think we are quite there yet.

Another way to look at it: if Eden, Oscar, and perhaps Willian develop as Chelsea (and Jose) want them to, we will be able to challenge the top teams. If they do not, however, then we will have to buy (very expensive and perhaps unavailable) players in order to do that (challenge the top European sides). People around here may not have the patience to wait, but clearly the club is willing to bet on it.

[edetarod 2,155]

is he still on course to become "one of the best attacking midfielders in Europe in a few years" or . . . . . ..

yeah, in a poem maybe

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

no, I implied that Hazard looks better than he actually is because he is flashy, and Oscar doesn't look as good as he actually is, because he isn't. If you disagree, or even think it's also a moronic idea, that's fine by me.

Eden is indeed ahead of Oscar even though they are very different players even complementary! The difference however, isn't as big as people make it out to be. Eden has had quite a few quiet games lately including this week against Liverpool. His measurable contribution was low. He's had very quiet runs of games too, like in the world cup. Against City away Eden couldn't complete a single play. Against Liverpool he had trouble assisting, squandering an excellent chance when Oscar was completely open and he put too much weight on his pass. Assists and goals decide games not dribbling on its own.

For me both of them need to improve. Again, Hazard is indeed ahead of Oscar, but both need improving to get to the next stage in their careers, and begin challenge the top players. And Chelsea need both of them to become better players, to become a force in Europe and challenge Real, Bayern, and Barcelona - don't think we are quite there yet.

Another way to look at it: if Eden, Oscar, and perhaps Willian develop as Chelsea (and Jose) want them to, we will be able to challenge the top teams. If they do not, however, then we will have to buy (very expensive and perhaps unavailable) players in order to do that (challenge the top European sides). People around here may not have the patience to wait, but clearly the club is willing to bet on it.

Being flashy doesn't mean you look better than you are. Hazard is hardly flashy either, Quaresma was flashy, Nani flashy at times, Cristiano Ronaldo when he was younger but Hazard isn't exactly flashy. Football is simple, everyone appreciates players who can do something simple that's effective and especially at this club when we had Makelele in that holding role, he was loved because of the simple nature and effectiveness of his game. Busquets is another one I like to watch because of the simpleness in his game and also the effectiveness.

Oscar does simple things but he can do so much more as I've said in other posts. Its nothing to do with him not doing as much tricks or skills either lol its stuff like influencing the play or being a constant threat in the game or taking it by the scruff of the neck. Players like Eriksen, Barkley, Silva all number 10's in various other teams you see them doing this time and time again and think Oscar should be doing that. Great players dominate games, Oscar can be a great player yes but if hes not consistent enough or say shys away from the game at times he won't dominate games.

[Oscar 441]

Simply put - his general contribution to the team can easily be replaced by someone like Ramires or Willian.

Never could you say the same about Hazard.

chelsea did well without hazard against Liverpool last season and won without against PSG.

2 of the biggest wins last season. Only player that is irreplaceable is JT, since Cahill sucks and diego Costa.

[lionsden 4,689]

yeah, in a poem maybe

Well He's the second best AM in the league according to Viper

[Cescy 40]

Simply put - his general contribution to the team can easily be replaced by someone like Ramires or Willian.

Never could you say the same about Hazard.

Don't think either could easily replace Oscar's goal threat, involvement in building attacks and final ball. They would maybe offer something different, but we would be losing some things in return. In games Oscar hasn't played our offensive transition and fluidity in attack haven't been as good, and Costa especially has seemed more isolated. We can win some games without him, as we have without Hazard, Costa and Fabregas in the past.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Don't think either could easily replace Oscar's goal threat, involvement in building attacks and final ball. They would maybe offer something different, but we would be losing some things in return. In games Oscar hasn't played our offensive transition and fluidity in attack haven't been as good, and Costa especially has seemed more isolated. We can win some games without him, as we have without Hazard, Costa and Fabregas in the past.

He's nowhere near as important as those you've mentioned. Oscar is actually a pretty good finisher so naturally he'll get goals, he's surrounded by world class players so naturally he'll get assists, but the biggest things he brings to the team can easily be replaced IMO simply by putting someone like Ramires next to Matic in the pivot and pushing Fabregas up. He's not excellent in the build up play or the final ball either, he's very hot and cold in that matter (more often cold). I'm not having this notion that he's as important as Fabregas, Hazard, JT or Costa.

When was the last time Oscar seriously influenced a big game as well please? The only game that sticks out is his CL debut against Juventus. Oscar is a definitely a good player to have around but he's not one of our star players and never will be. People might think I'm being harsh but I've honestly seen minimal progression and improvement over the last 3 seasons in Oscar, which bitterly disappoints me.

Ask lionsden, I used to be one of Oscar's biggest defendants but honestly he just hasn't progressed enough and it just doesn't look like he's going to be that special player I thought he might be. My issue with Oscar isn't that he's a bad player. He's pretty good. He'll develop into a good player as well. My issue simply put is that he will never be an elite, world class number 10. We can always do better in that position if he remains the starter IMO.

As I said before however... He's more than welcome to prove me wrong though.

[xPetrCechx 13,571]

I thought he was not good against liverpool.
lost possession too many times.

[yuvala 2,167]

He's nowhere near as important as those you've mentioned. Oscar is actually a pretty good finisher so naturally he'll get goals, he's surrounded by world class players so naturally he'll get assists, but the biggest things he brings to the team can easily be replaced IMO simply by putting someone like Ramires next to Matic in the pivot and pushing Fabregas up. He's not excellent in the build up play or the final ball either, he's very hot and cold in that matter (more often cold). I'm not having this notion that he's as important as Fabregas, Hazard, JT or Costa.

When was the last time Oscar seriously influenced a big game as well please? The only game that sticks out is his CL debut against Juventus. Oscar is a definitely a good player to have around but he's not one of our star players and never will be. People might think I'm being harsh but I've honestly seen minimal progression and improvement over the last 3 seasons in Oscar, which bitterly disappoints me.

Ask lionsden, I used to be one of Oscar's biggest defendants but honestly he just hasn't progressed enough and it just doesn't look like he's going to be that special player I thought he might be. My issue with Oscar isn't that he's a bad player. He's pretty good. He'll develop into a good player as well. My issue simply put is that he will never be an elite, world class number 10. We can always do better in that position if he remains the starter IMO.

As I said before however... He's more than welcome to prove me wrong though.

Sadly, I agree.

[CFC888 219]

@CFC888 I was going to reply to your post and then I noticed your avi picture and favourite player and suddenly it all makes sense How you are defending Oscar so passionately and that it would simply be a waste of time to engage you in this debate.

So my opinion is invalid due to an image aligned with my profile and the fact that I enjoy watching Oscar at his best? Alright then.

I'm not going to get involved in a personal tussle with you, but I would appreciate it if you could have the decency to respond to the points I and some others like Viper have made with a proper counter-opinion, rather than attempting to pick apart our supposed lack of credibility or responding with completely irrelevant GIFs...

When was the last time Oscar seriously influenced a big game as well please? The only game that sticks out is his CL debut against Juventus.

I asked myself this question a few days ago and came up with the same answer. It's a very good point and certainly an area where Oscar must improve.

Tomorrow's game is a good example. Oscar may end up getting a start if Diego and Cesc in particular are both out, but if they were both available I highly doubt Jose would start Oscar. Why? Not because we need a more defensive minded option with Mikel/Ramires next to Matic and Cesc further forward, but because Oscar doesn't produce on the big stage for Chelsea, which is very frustrating, because it's certainly not due to a lack of ability.

[Viper22 2,418]

Great contribution/rebuttal.

[Parky 739]

I feel Oscar should be playing as a Box to Box midfielder and Cesc or Hazard should play the #10 role.

[Madmax 9,219]

Did he even play today? I literally can't remember him doing one thing on the pitch. Definition of a passenger.

[Polo7 3,496]

Definitely need to invest in a no.10 in the summer. Oscar is just a runner, nothing more.

[DYC. 7,542]

Toothless.

[xPetrCechx 13,571]

poor...

[Parky 739]

I dont feel he has the quality to be a long term 10. Gets lost in games, lacks that decisive vision and final pass. Also gave the ball away far too easily today. Can be brilliant but very inconsistent.

[Barbara 15,149]

I said days before the match - just after the match against Liverpool ended actually, that he should be dropped from the team today because playing 210 minutes within four days would harm his presentation because he just can't cope with this amount of football especially in the second half of the season.

I was expecting him to be really bad and he was exactly that.

BUT I don't think it's that much fair to judge him on his quality, ability, etc... given the circumstances. He already showed that he has inconsistency issues that he needs to work on and other limitations to his game, but Mourinho only played him today because he literally had no other option... Mourinho played him twice in the cups games planning on have Ramires and Cesc for this game and bench Oscar. He wasn't counting with Cesc's injury and as a result Oscar was battered and except for the last ten minutes, it looked like we played with ten because he did absolutely nothing.

Like Matic said (according to some, I didn't see post match interviews) players aren't robots, they get tired, even more players such as Oscar who aren't physically on par with the demands of the league. He struggles when he plays too many minutes in such a short streak of time. I said it before the match and I'm not surprised at all with his terrible performance.