🇧🇪 Eden Hazard

[Mufassir08 2,400]

1 hour ago, TheIceMan said:

Yep He Alone totally done that with his incredible leadership skills, not the the team and the players around Him not Mourinho, not Conte and not Costa's goals not at all !!!

The same Costa who went AWOL during the second halves of both seasons? The same Mourinho who had Eden playing as a wingback at times and relied solely on Eden's attacking talent? Conte I can't argue with a lot but the other two were factors for sure and made vital contributions but Eden was the one who saw us through the finishing line.

[manpe 10,861]

2 hours ago, TheIceMan said:

I am grateful for everything that he is done for the club but the fact is that when the team need's him the most he is nowhere to be seen !!!

You haven't been watching Chelsea for the past 5 years have you? He won us 2 league titles and decided countless games on his own.

[robsblubot 3,595]

This, WHU, was a very poor performance by hazard, and most other players, with perhaps only Kante playing at a normal level.

he does not get a pass from me though. should’ve tried to be more creative mixing things up when his usual dribbling game is not effective like today.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

9 hours ago, Robguima said:

This, WHU, was a very poor performance by hazard, and most other players, with perhaps only Kante playing at a normal level.

he does not get a pass from me though. should’ve tried to be more creative mixing things up when his usual dribbling game is not effective like today.

Can i ask what you expected him to do more ? 

With West Ham defending as narrow and as deep as they did i feel like there were only 2 real options for Hazard. 

Either stay central and rely on his teammates to stretch West Ham and open up some space for him in the central areas

or move out wide and stretch the West Ham defence himself but then the question becomes who's gonna exploit the space in the central areas ?

IMO, the only thing he could have done more was move out wide, try and beat players on the outside and cross the ball but Hazard isn't a winger though that's not how he plays. He doesn't purely outpace players.

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

38 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Can i ask what you expected him to do more ? 

With West Ham defending as narrow and as deep as they did i feel like there were only 2 real options for Hazard. 

Either stay central and rely on his teammates to stretch West Ham and open up some space for him in the central areas

or move out wide and stretch the West Ham defence himself but then the question becomes who's gonna exploit the space in the central areas ?

IMO, the only thing he could have done more was move out wide, try and beat players on the outside and cross the ball but Hazard isn't a winger though that's not how he plays. He doesn't purely outpace players.

 

Heh thought I just did that in my previous post.

outpacing players wasn’t possible since you said yourself they were defending deep.

I for one, would like very much if he could shoot on target and with more power. That’s a skill he lacks esp long shots. His finishing really lets him down sometimes,

he could also have tried to be more direct and beat players, running towards the. goal and not so much sideways... sure way to beat a deep defense. Perhaps I am wrong and expecting too much from him.

i just don’t buy that he is genius among poor players, which prevents him from showing his true potential.

Almost makes me want him to move to Barca or real just to find out how much of that is true. I honestly don’t think his game would drastically change.

 

 

[positivefootball 195]

He cant shoot. People are expecting Messi numbers from him. He doesnt come close to sniffing Messi's anus. His finishing, power in his shooting and creativity are not good enough for him to carry EVERY game.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

4 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Heh thought I just did that in my previous post.

outpacing players wasn’t possible since you said yourself they were defending deep.

I for one, would like very much if he could shoot on target and with more power. That’s a skill he lacks esp long shots. His finishing really lets him down sometimes,

he could also have tried to be more direct and beat players, running towards the. goal and not so much sideways... sure way to beat a deep defense. Perhaps I am wrong and expecting too much from him.

i just don’t buy that he is genius among poor players, which prevents him from showing his true potential.

Almost makes me want him to move to Barca or real just to find out how much of that is true. I honestly don’t think his game would drastically change.

 

 

I don't think there were any real chances for him to shoot apart from that 1 in the second half where he shot it over with his left.

When you talk about more direct and beating players do you mean centrally or in the wider areas ? 

Given how narrow WHU were defending i really don't think there was any space centrally to run into with the ball

and even if Hazard beat players in the wider areas, if he went past a player on the inside he was just going to run into traffic while if he takes them on the outside at best he'd be able to cross the ball in.

 

I think he would improve if he played for Barca or Real.  Just need to take a look at what players Hazard had to play with over the years. A striker like Torres, a midfield of Ramires and a past his prime Lampard, Azpi at LB. 

It's not a coincidence that his level shot up in the 2014/15 season when we bought a goalscoring striker (Costa) and a playmaker (Fabregas) to help him out.

6 th season here yet we still haven't partnered Hazard with an attacking, pacey fullback. Even now he's playing with players like Alonso, Bakayoko, Drinkwater, Willian, Pedro, Cahill, Moses.

 

Also while it's not as bad as it was under Mourinho we're still a very pragmatic side. Against top teams we rarely set out to dominate.

We don't really fight other topteams for possession we just sit deep and try and hit them on the break.

Teams like Real and Barca always try and dominate. That would also play to his advantage as he'd actually see more of the ball.

You can debate how much  but there's no doubt in my mind he'd play better for Real and Barca.

I mean just look at how good his interplay is with Fabregas at times. Imagine if instead of 1 he'd have 4-5 players on his wavelength.

 

[The Skipper 20,609]

People are actually blaming Eden even though we have so many other real problems in the team... wow. 

[Alabama 1,992]

18 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

People are actually blaming Eden even though we have so many other real problems in the team... wow. 

Frustration and self denial at work despite seeing glaring weakness and problem in the team...

[robsblubot 3,595]

9 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

I don't think there were any real chances for him to shoot apart from that 1 in the second half where he shot it over with his left.

When you talk about more direct and beating players do you mean centrally or in the wider areas ? 

Given how narrow WHU were defending i really don't think there was any space centrally to run into with the ball

and even if Hazard beat players in the wider areas, if he went past a player on the inside he was just going to run into traffic while if he takes them on the outside at best he'd be able to cross the ball in.

 

I think he would improve if he played for Barca or Real.  Just need to take a look at what players Hazard had to play with over the years. A striker like Torres, a midfield of Ramires and a past his prime Lampard, Azpi at LB. 

It's not a coincidence that his level shot up in the 2014/15 season when we bought a goalscoring striker (Costa) and a playmaker (Fabregas) to help him out.

6 th season here yet we still haven't partnered Hazard with an attacking, pacey fullback. Even now he's playing with players like Alonso, Bakayoko, Drinkwater, Willian, Pedro, Cahill, Moses.

 

Also while it's not as bad as it was under Mourinho we're still a very pragmatic side. Against top teams we rarely set out to dominate.

We don't really fight other topteams for possession we just sit deep and try and hit them on the break.

Teams like Real and Barca always try and dominate. That would also play to his advantage as he'd actually see more of the ball.

You can debate how much  but there's no doubt in my mind he'd play better for Real and Barca.

I mean just look at how good his interplay is with Fabregas at times. Imagine if instead of 1 he'd have 4-5 players on his wavelength.

 

he's not there to really shoot, even though he would be a more complete player if he could shoot esp from outside the box. He created very little for the team.

Wide, centrally, I don't really care. That's for him to figure out during the game. it's part of being creative: finding out solutions when things are difficult.

In the PL we mostly have all possession agaist the shitty sides like WHU. PL games are fast and competitive, but these smaller sides have a lot of really technically poor players.

fair, we disagree on real and barca because when people make these comparisons, like you are doing, they don't mention that there are far fewer players doing the dirty work in those teams, esp barca. All have to pull their weight and I happen to be believe that is the most glaring weaknesses in Eden's game... I guess we may find out if he ever makes it there.

7 hours ago, The Skipper said:

People are actually blaming Eden even though we have so many other real problems in the team... wow. 

Of course not! The fact that our best player (key player with the most freedom) created very little for himself and for his teammates while we had 70% of possession for over 45 minutes, had nothing to do with our failure to score against a very poor side... 

It's a team sport. They all lost, including Eden. And it's not like he produced assists and hit the post twice, right? He was poor considering his level and what he normally does.

[The Skipper 20,609]

2 hours ago, Robguima said:

Of course not! The fact that our best player (key player with the most freedom) created very little for himself and for his teammates while we had 70% of possession for over 45 minutes, had nothing to do with our failure to score against a very poor side... 

It's a team sport. They all lost, including Eden. And it's not like he produced assists and hit the post twice, right? He was poor considering his level and what he normally does

I agree he had a bad game but he has bad games so rarely it’s ok to look past this performance. Like there are no alarm bells. 

[cfcs most wanted 657]

I think the new formation has made the team overly dependent on Hazard, even though it has brought out better performances from him, yet it seems like he's the only bit of creativity that the team can rely on. And this was very well shown in the game against West Ham, with the wingbacks and Bakayoko being absolutely clueless, and West Ham did well to contain Hazard, so without his creativity we basically had no shooting chance in the game. Chelsea need another creative player to support Hazard because if this goes on we're sure to become Hazard Fc

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

9 hours ago, Robguima said:

he's not there to really shoot, even though he would be a more complete player if he could shoot esp from outside the box. He created very little for the team.

Wide, centrally, I don't really care. That's for him to figure out during the game. it's part of being creative: finding out solutions when things are difficult.

In the PL we mostly have all possession agaist the shitty sides like WHU. PL games are fast and competitive, but these smaller sides have a lot of really technically poor players.

fair, we disagree on real and barca because when people make these comparisons, like you are doing, they don't mention that there are far fewer players doing the dirty work in those teams, esp barca. All have to pull their weight and I happen to be believe that is the most glaring weaknesses in Eden's game... I guess we may find out if he ever makes it there.

Of course not! The fact that our best player (key player with the most freedom) created very little for himself and for his teammates while we had 70% of possession for over 45 minutes, had nothing to do with our failure to score against a very poor side... 

It's a team sport. They all lost, including Eden. And it's not like he produced assists and hit the post twice, right? He was poor considering his level and what he normally does.

There are fewer players doing the dirty work in those teams because there's less dirty work to be done. Barca or Real rarely have to defend deep for longer periods of time. Even against top teams.

When Barca played with Neymar-Suarez-Messi did they pull their weight defensively ?  Messi didn't do anything and Neymar did close to nothing on the defensive side.

I didn't see either one of them busting a gut trying to track back a fullback into their own final third.

Same with Real when they played Ronaldo-Benzema-Bale. 

I think you're overestimating how much workrate is needed when you're an attacking player playing for one of Real/Barcelona.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

18 hours ago, The Skipper said:

People are actually blaming Eden even though we have so many other real problems in the team... wow. 

Same people who blamed him and Costa for whatever reason instead of the likes of Ivanovic or Cahill in 2015/16. For some reason a lot of Chelsea fans tend to only blame our best players whenever anything goes wrong. Weird.

[El P. 1,354]

So we are basically fielding a team, with Hazard and 10 other guys. Hazard and a guy that currently can only score headers, guy that can't run and dribble and is only good at passing, two very unproductive wingbacks and two midfielders who aren't good offensive.

Could it be any easier for other teams to focus ALL their strength on marking and kicking Hazard, especially if they set up for defending? Well, I don't think so, I think Messi would struggle here too sometimes.

[Reddish-Blue 2,665]

11 minutes ago, El P. said:

So we are basically fielding a team, with Hazard, Kante  and 9 other guys. We have a guy that can't run and dribble and is only good at passing, two average wingbacks and two midfielders who aren't good offensive.

Could it be any easier for other teams to focus ALL their strength on marking and kicking Hazard, especially if they set up for defending? Well, I don't think so, I think Messi would struggle here too sometimes.

Fixed. 

[El P. 1,354]

1 minute ago, Reddish-Blue said:

Fixed. 

I appreciate your effort, but offensively-wise, it's Hazard and 10 other guys.

[The Skipper 20,609]

On 09/12/2017 at 2:54 PM, TheIceMan said:

That's why he is 19 - th . And will never get higher than that period !!!

Hazard finished 8th in 2015 mate. Drop the stupid agenda. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

It's funny because my read of the many posts here is that Chelsea should sell Hazard, which is probably not the intention of the authors.

There are obvious drawbacks of playing with a centralized key player in a free role: it's a single big target to be stopped. It's even more of drawback when the team lacks overall quality esp in attack.

The problem: some think (I do not) that Eden's genius is being limited by the poor overall quality around him.

So, considering that the overall quality around him hasn't really changed that much over time, which perhaps suggests the club has reached its limit in terms of spending, then we have to fix the problem in a different way: controversial, I know, but wouldn't the club benefit more by having 2-3 quality players, as opposed to one key player? Now (wildly) assuming our board has the talent to sign 2-3 quality players by selling Hazard (plus some cash lying around). If all were true, and we ended up with more quality players in numbers, then it could be indeed beneficial to the team.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

10 hours ago, Robguima said:

It's funny because my read of the many posts here is that Chelsea should sell Hazard, which is probably not the intention of the authors.

There are obvious drawbacks of playing with a centralized key player in a free role: it's a single big target to be stopped. It's even more of drawback when the team lacks overall quality esp in attack.

The problem: some think (I do not) that Eden's genius is being limited by the poor overall quality around him.

So, considering that the overall quality around him hasn't really changed that much over time, which perhaps suggests the club has reached its limit in terms of spending, then we have to fix the problem in a different way: controversial, I know, but wouldn't the club benefit more by having 2-3 quality players, as opposed to one key player? Now (wildly) assuming our board has the talent to sign 2-3 quality players by selling Hazard (plus some cash lying around). If all were true, and we ended up with more quality players in numbers, then it could be indeed beneficial to the team.

I don't think people want us to sell Hazard but you have to be realistic. Nowadays if a player only has 2 years on his contract, a significant bid comes in and he tells the club he wants to leave it's very difficult to refuse that as a club. 

Arsenal did it with Sanchez but i think it'll hurt them in the long run. Now they won't get any money to replace him with.

 

Sounds good in theory  but it often doesn't pan out like that in real life.

Liverpool sold Suarez and have since then spent a lot of money on players yet  never gotten closer to the title then they did with Suarez.

Tottenham sold Bale and bought several players in his place but they didn't improve even though they got close to a 100 million for him.

Even if we sold Hazard for 150-200 million i don't think we'd be able to buy top tier players/talents. 

We'd likely be looking at second tier talents who'd have the potential. 

That would mean a drop in performance a period of transition and looking where we are now that would likely mean struggling to finish in the top 4.

Even then there would be no guarantee that those bought players would reach their potential.

 

Also key players are needed if you actually want to win trophies. 

Look at Tottenham. They don't really have a key player that stands out in comparison to the rest of the team. 

They're a very solid and well rounded team with no real obvious weak spots yet they've won fuck all. 

There's a reason why so many  teams have that 1 key player that's above the team.

No matter how well rounded you are as a team there will always be games or moments in a game where you need that 1 player to make a difference.