David Luiz

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I disagree with Luiz being sloppy on the ball, he has one of the best ball control/technique in the squad. He just tries things as he's an adventurous player and sometimes it doesn't work; in which case he ends up giving away the ball It doesn't mean he's sloppy though.

Tactical awareness though I agree with - but that's simply down to him not being used to playing in the DM role - it would take him a couple of seasons to get fully accustomed at that which I don't think we have time for.

That's what I actually meant by 'sloppy', that he tries to dribble too much and attempts passes he should not. I just didn't want to repeat it again since I had said the previous page, that's all..

[Thomas Williams 166]

I think if David had been placed as a CDM from his early career he would be an absolute star at the position by now. I genuinely think that's his true position, and he would have among the best in world at that position.

However, that wasn't the case, and instead he is a CB and he will make a very fine CB no doubt. I just feel it's a bit of a waste with his shooting, passing, and dribbling potential, but I don't think it would work for us to try to convert him now.

[Mufassir08 2,400]

I think david is at his best as a CB no doubt about that.He is also a useful CDM so his versatility will be quite useful next season.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

The only reason we're sucking David Luiz dick in CDM is because we're so shit in that position and when we see a vertical pass that actually finds a target from the midfield we instantly knock one out. Once we get proper DMs next season (hopefully) and we can control the game better than DL will have no problem coming forward from CB and causing even more havoc.

Can you imagine him as Barca's CB? 10 goals a year easy. I am surprised they haven't tried to poach him from us, I'm sure they have but Roman prolly just sent em a DVD of last year's semi final and told em to fuck off.

[Jase 43,479]

All smiles between Luiz and Lampard on Sunday.

Kiddos touching the hair for some luck.

Cech and Ivanovic as batman!

[Milan 17,854]

Don't know whether it was posted but listen to his English, pretty good actually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRoZC_mYUDY

[Hutcho 8,443]

I think we gain more from him being in midfield as a team than from him in defence. Purely because our other midfield options arn't good enough atm, and our other defencive options are good enough.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I think we gain more from him being in midfield as a team than from him in defence. Purely because our other midfield options arn't good enough atm, and our other defencive options are good enough.

Why? How is he better in midfield?

This is not aimed at you Hutch, but I've seen quite a lot of people make a similar claim, and while I've made and explained my argument against him playing in the middle a lot of times, honestly I haven't read anything convincing about why David should in midfield. I'd love to properly discuss this with someone who does think Luiz should be played in the middle.

[bleed_blue 136]

Why? How is he better in midfield?

This is not aimed at you Hutch, but I've seen quite a lot of people make a similar claim, and while I've made and explained my argument against him playing in the middle a lot of times, honestly I haven't read anything convincing about why David should in midfield. I'd love to properly discuss this with someone who does think Luiz should be played in the middle.

I will take a shot.

First of all to me, Luiz at CB > Luiz at CM.

However, current Chelsea squad with Luiz at CM > current Chelsea squad with Luiz at CB.

So what I am saying is, Luiz is a better defender than he is a midfielder, but at the same time, he is Chelsea's best midfielder of the present options.

Lampard has the passing range, footballing brain but what he lacks is speed and defensive workrate.

Mikel on the other hand, passing range is very limited, workrate is very poor and is very ponderous on the ball.

Luiz has the tendency to be rash and also tries to do too much sometimes that can end up costing us. But with that, you get a lot of upside. We have seen him play lovely long balls many times this season, he is always looking to make something out of our possession rather than just wait and ponder over the ball while the opposition gets back into shape (ala Mikel).

[Rmpr 8,977]

Don't know whether it was posted but listen to his English, pretty good actually.

Well, it is better than Oscar's.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I think we gain more from him being in midfield as a team than from him in defence. Purely because our other midfield options arn't good enough atm, and our other defencive options are good enough.

Pretty much spot on. It's a similar situation to how Everton use Fellaini - he's better in a deeper midfield role but they need what he brings to the team in an attacking role. Luiz has been our best defender this year and that's where his future lies but at the moment we can get by with Terry, Ivanovic and Cahill covering the 2 CB roles and pushing Luiz forward.

The reason we need him there is simple - Lamps, Rami and Mikel have been inconsistent at best in that role in the team. What Luiz brings is energy to the role (like Rami) with a bit better technique (like Lamps) and an ability to defend (like Mikel can allegedly do). He might not be better than each of these players at these particular aspects of the game, but he's probably offering the best combination of them at this point in time.

Plus he's emerged as a leader. He gives a shit, gets stuck in and steps up when we need him to. Is he perfect? Fuck no. But one of our midfielders managed to misplace a pass against Swansea that should've resulted in a goal for them and it wasn't the guy who has played about a dozen games in midfield who made it. It was the guy with about 900 appearances as a midfielder.

So basically, some people need to back off. He's not perfect but he's doing the job we need him to right now as well as being a leader in this team. There are other midfielders far more worthy of criticism.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Why? How is he better in midfield?

This is not aimed at you Hutch, but I've seen quite a lot of people make a similar claim, and while I've made and explained my argument against him playing in the middle a lot of times, honestly I haven't read anything convincing about why David should in midfield. I'd love to properly discuss this with someone who does think Luiz should be played in the middle.

What i am saying is that imo, he is better in defence... However, he is better than the options wenhave in midfield as well. If we had a DM who was better than mikel then I would say to play David Luiz in defence, but David Luiz isn't that much better than Ivanovic, Terry, and cahill... Whereas atm he is a lot better than mikel in midfield.

So, I think individually he is better in defence but as a team we benefit more from him in midfield.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Fair enough, I understand the argument that Luiz is needed in midfield simply because we don't have anyone who can distribute the ball like him in there, perfectly plausible argument. After all, our CB area is pretty much still covered up decently even if Luiz doesn't play there. What I don't understand though is the people that want him there permanently - it's too late into his career to permanently change his position to a CDM.

Luiz will definitely do the job in midfield against weaker teams who tend to sit deep and not press but against teams like City or United or even Tottenham I think he'll struggle - but we do need his distribution from the pivot, certainly against teams that sit deep.

I feel like Mikel can do what Luiz is doing but he isn't being pushed enough - if I was Rafa I'd certainly look at Mikel and tell him "Look, you have the technical abilities to distribute the ball excellently, you need to take gambles like Luiz does and distribute the ball forward as quick as possible". Mikel has that in his locker for definite but he's not being pushed IMO. Mikel needs to bring more to the team offensively, especially when we play against weaker sides.

Luiz is more of an offensive threat in midfield than Mikel so that's why he works better against teams that sit deeper and don't really press us. Mikel's been getting a lot of stick recently but I still think he's a better DM than Luiz. He's just going through a rough patch atm.

In the big games against teams who we expect to press us heavily I'd actually start Ramires and a motivated Mikel in the pivot and move Luiz back to CB simply because he'll have more space to pick out passes and (if done correctly) can still have license to roam forward. I'd also actually look at playing a Luiz - Mikel midfield (they have looked good together before) but you can't leave out Ramires in the big games.

It's an interesting conundrum, and I really can't wait until we get in a proper deep lying playmaker in the pivot who can do what Luiz does even better so Luiz can go back to his natural position - as I've said before, our team would be a lot more unpredictable and we'd have an extra offensive outlet too.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Fair enough, I understand the argument that Luiz is needed in midfield simply because we don't have anyone who can distribute the ball like him in there, perfectly plausible argument. After all, our CB area is pretty much still covered up decently even if Luiz doesn't play there. What I don't understand though is the people that want him there permanently - it's too late into his career to permanently change his position to a CDM.

Luiz will definitely do the job in midfield against weaker teams who tend to sit deep and not press but against teams like City or United or even Tottenham I think he'll struggle - but we do need his distribution from the pivot, certainly against teams that sit deep.

I feel like Mikel can do what Luiz is doing but he isn't being pushed enough - if I was Rafa I'd certainly look at Mikel and tell him "Look, you have the technical abilities to distribute the ball excellently, you need to take gambles like Luiz does and distribute the ball forward as quick as possible". Mikel has that in his locker for definite but he's not being pushed IMO. Mikel needs to bring more to the team offensively, especially when we play against weaker sides.

Luiz is more of an offensive threat in midfield than Mikel so that's why he works better against teams that sit deeper and don't really press us. Mikel's been getting a lot of stick recently but I still think he's a better DM than Luiz. He's just going through a rough patch atm.

In the big games against teams who we expect to press us heavily I'd actually start Ramires and a motivated Mikel in the pivot and move Luiz back to CB simply because he'll have more space to pick out passes and (if done correctly) can still have license to roam forward. I'd also actually look at playing a Luiz - Mikel midfield (they have looked good together before) but you can't leave out Ramires in the big games.

It's an interesting conundrum, and I really can't wait until we get in a proper deep lying playmaker in the pivot who can do what Luiz does even better so Luiz can go back to his natural position - as I've said before, our team would be a lot more unpredictable and we'd have an extra offensive outlet too.

Luiz is a defender. That's what he's going to be for us and that's where he's been best this season. Converting him to a midfielder full-time isn't realistic and this is similar to last season when we had Bertrand on the left-wing to do a job that we didn't have the personnel to do.

Two things about Mikel - the idea that he needs to be pushed is embarrassing, disgraceful and probably true. I've alluded to his attitude before but that's one of the reasons Luiz gets the nod ahead of him at the moment. Not to turn this thread into a Mikel-bashing thread but he's not the type of person/human/man I want representing this club. I also think you've got it back-to-front with Mikel in terms of teams who press him. Southampton did it and we lost. Steaua did it and he looked unsteady.

The great myth about the Man United cup game is that he came on and changed the game, but the truth (or the way I saw it anyway) is that United stopped pushing from midfield. They sat back and we managed to get on top of them. If teams give Mikel time then we'll win but if they put pressure on him then we're in trouble.

Luiz is by no means the perfect midfielder, but he's never a passenger. He will actually drive the team forward at times - just look at those straight, powerfully-hit passes he'll knock forward to Ba or a winger cutting in that slice through a teams first bank of defenders. When teams set up with two banks (as Swansea did for the first 30 minutes on Sunday) those passes forced them to re-align and it creates a sense of urgency in both teams. He also gets stuck in on the defensive side of the ball, but he can be too ambitious and get caught out sometimes.

Hopefully we either bring someone in next season or Romeu picks up where he left off and becomes that guy who invigorates the team going forward but is also a strong defensive presence.

[bleed_blue 136]

Luiz is a defender. That's what he's going to be for us and that's where he's been best this season. Converting him to a midfielder full-time isn't realistic and this is similar to last season when we had Bertrand on the left-wing to do a job that we didn't have the personnel to do.

Two things about Mikel - the idea that he needs to be pushed is embarrassing, disgraceful and probably true. I've alluded to his attitude before but that's one of the reasons Luiz gets the nod ahead of him at the moment. Not to turn this thread into a Mikel-bashing thread but he's not the type of person/human/man I want representing this club. I also think you've got it back-to-front with Mikel in terms of teams who press him. Southampton did it and we lost. Steaua did it and he looked unsteady.

The great myth about the Man United cup game is that he came on and changed the game, but the truth (or the way I saw it anyway) is that United stopped pushing from midfield. They sat back and we managed to get on top of them. If teams give Mikel time then we'll win but if they put pressure on him then we're in trouble.

Luiz is by no means the perfect midfielder, but he's never a passenger. He will actually drive the team forward at times - just look at those straight, powerfully-hit passes he'll knock forward to Ba or a winger cutting in that slice through a teams first bank of defenders. When teams set up with two banks (as Swansea did for the first 30 minutes on Sunday) those passes forced them to re-align and it creates a sense of urgency in both teams. He also gets stuck in on the defensive side of the ball, but he can be too ambitious and get caught out sometimes.

Hopefully we either bring someone in next season or Romeu picks up where he left off and becomes that guy who invigorates the team going forward but is also a strong defensive presence.

About that ManU game, I dont think people want to admit that what changed the game in our favour was replacing Moses with Hazard. We conceded two very early goals (1 because of a worldly pass from Carrick) and after that we had a lot of chances to score. But upfront Moses was absolutely atrocious in the first half. Wrong decisions, poor crosses and some poor finishing kept us from scoring in that first half. Hazard came on, took things into his own hands, played with a purpose and we were back in it.

[The only place to be 11,313]

About that ManU game, I dont think people want to admit that what changed the game in our favour was replacing Moses with Hazard. We conceded two very early goals (1 because of a worldly pass from Carrick) and after that we had a lot of chances to score. But upfront Moses was absolutely atrocious in the first half. Wrong decisions, poor crosses and some poor finishing kept us from scoring in that first half. Hazard came on, took things into his own hands, played with a purpose and we were back in it.

Not to tempt the mockers gods, but I haven't thought this United team was that good all season. In fact their midfield has been an area that needs improving since 2010/2011. In the CL Final, Barca showed that they have a weakness in between their defensive and midfield lines that teams can exploit. Spurs did it at Old Trafford, Everton did it at Goodison and we did it.

If you match up with them in a 442-type formation then they're comfortable but as soon as you play midfielders deep and have playmakers stepping off the centrebacks then they are vulnerable.

And you're right that Hazard changed the match too. He gave us that drive and made them a little nervous, which of course makes them drop even deeper.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Luiz is a defender. That's what he's going to be for us and that's where he's been best this season. Converting him to a midfielder full-time isn't realistic and this is similar to last season when we had Bertrand on the left-wing to do a job that we didn't have the personnel to do.

Two things about Mikel - the idea that he needs to be pushed is embarrassing, disgraceful and probably true. I've alluded to his attitude before but that's one of the reasons Luiz gets the nod ahead of him at the moment. Not to turn this thread into a Mikel-bashing thread but he's not the type of person/human/man I want representing this club. I also think you've got it back-to-front with Mikel in terms of teams who press him. Southampton did it and we lost. Steaua did it and he looked unsteady.

The great myth about the Man United cup game is that he came on and changed the game, but the truth (or the way I saw it anyway) is that United stopped pushing from midfield. They sat back and we managed to get on top of them. If teams give Mikel time then we'll win but if they put pressure on him then we're in trouble.

Luiz is by no means the perfect midfielder, but he's never a passenger. He will actually drive the team forward at times - just look at those straight, powerfully-hit passes he'll knock forward to Ba or a winger cutting in that slice through a teams first bank of defenders. When teams set up with two banks (as Swansea did for the first 30 minutes on Sunday) those passes forced them to re-align and it creates a sense of urgency in both teams. He also gets stuck in on the defensive side of the ball, but he can be too ambitious and get caught out sometimes.

Hopefully we either bring someone in next season or Romeu picks up where he left off and becomes that guy who invigorates the team going forward but is also a strong defensive presence.

Fully agree on your view about Luiz and his role in midfield, and you know my views on Mikel already; like you said we shouldn't derail & turn this into another Mikel debate! What I will say though is that he's going through a rough patch at the moment and it's easy to kick a dog when he's down. He's still a good player in my opinion, but right now he just isn't motivated - maybe that's due to Rafa, we don't know. But we'll leave it there.

About that ManU game, I dont think people want to admit that what changed the game in our favour was replacing Moses with Hazard. We conceded two very early goals (1 because of a worldly pass from Carrick) and after that we had a lot of chances to score. But upfront Moses was absolutely atrocious in the first half. Wrong decisions, poor crosses and some poor finishing kept us from scoring in that first half. Hazard came on, took things into his own hands, played with a purpose and we were back in it.

Thing is, everyone acknowledged that Hazard changed the game for us but Mikel played a role in that too. Everyone can admit that Hazard had a big say in the turn around. Mikel got praised because he gave our forwards a nice platform and recycled possession well.

[bleed_blue 136]

Thing is, everyone acknowledged that Hazard changed the game for us but Mikel played a role in that too. Everyone can admit that Hazard had a big say in the turn around. Mikel got praised because he gave our forwards a nice platform and recycled possession well.

OK lets agree to disagree on that. The game I saw, we were creating chances and putting United under pressure in the first half as well, only the goals were missing.