David Luiz

[DDA 9,690]

I love these forums but fuck me sometimes reading your over analyitical bullshit makes me wanna bash my head against a moving bus. How can anyone not like Luiz in the DM role... it was made for him. Fuck anyone who says different!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Sigh I already explained that as heat of moment post!!!

A lot of people are saying that Luiz is shit in midfield - he isn't, he's playing much better there and has been the difference IMHO.

Stop using my posts to claim insults - I haven't insulted anybody!!!

He expressed his view, I expressed mine, we chatted some more and ALL COOL

Stop being a drama queen!

I already edited my post and said this isn't aimed towards you. Your post is one example of what's been happening way too often. And I'm not just talking about insults but more about the branding and name calling of posters based on the opinions they express which is preventing any real discussions from happening and instead turning them into a name-calling contest.

[Muzchap 8,966]

I already edited my post and said this isn't aimed towards you. Your post is one example of what's been happening way too often. And I'm not just talking about insults but more about the branding and name calling of posters based on the opinions they express which is preventing any real discussions from happening and instead turning them into a name-calling contest.

Well its an Internet forum with disparate geographic people, religions and beliefs.

I actually don't think it's all that bad to be fair.

Agreed we (me included) need to stop the black and white stuff e.g. Torres fanboy/hater etc and just keep it all in perspective.

If we keep winning things will get better, been a turbulent few months on the CFC roller coaster

[The Skipper 20,593]

Luiz isn't playing as a DM. Just because he's in the pivot doesn't mean he's automatically qualified as a DM. To me he's being played as a B2B CM - he's always seen on either side of the pitch - whilst Mikel sits deep and allows Luiz the freedom to do that.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Luiz isn't playing as a DM. Just because he's in the pivot doesn't mean he's automatically qualified as a DM. To me he's being played as a B2B CM - he's always seen on either side of the pitch - whilst Mikel sits deep and allows Luiz the freedom to do that.

You can't have b2b midfielders in a 4-2-3-1, it goes against the definition of the double pivot and screws up your defense completely.

[The Skipper 20,593]

You can't have b2b midfielders in a 4-2-3-1, it goes against the definition of the double pivot and screws up your defense completely.

We have Luiz as a B2B and Mikel holding.

[Leif 6,006]

Luiz is actually playing a very similar role to Yaya Toure's at Man City IMO.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

We have Luiz as a B2B and Mikel holding.

Then we should go back to 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 if that is the way the manager wants the two to play.

@SeB, made a brilliant post some time ago about the functionality of the pivot and the responsibilities of the two players in it, but I can't find it now. Anyway, even if one of the two is playing a bt deeper than the other, both still have the responsibility to cover for both fullbacks to allow them having "modern" full backs who join the attack. Both should pick their runs carefully. You can't have one of them constantly making forward runs to the edge of the pen box because it's going to leave huge spaces behind.

Take last season for example: Frank was playing a head of Mikel, but he still had to pick his runs very carefully and stay deep at other times. That's one of the main reasons why the 4-2-3-1 worked wonders last season.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Then we should go back to 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 if that is the way the manager wants the two to play.

@SeB, made a brilliant post some time ago about the functionality of the pivot and the responsibilities of the two players in it, but I can't find it now. Anyway, even if one of the two is playing a bt deeper than the other, both still have the responsibility to cover for both fullbacks to allow them having "modern" full backs who join the attack. Both should pick their runs carefully. You can't have one of them constantly making forward runs to the edge of the pen box because it's going to leave huge spaces behind.

Take last season for example: Frank was playing a head of Mikel, but he still had to pick his runs very carefully and stay deep at other times. That's one of the main reasons why the 4-2-3-1 worked wonders last season.

Of course both players in the pivot have the responsibility of defending but from what we've seen about the 4-2-3-1 there is always that one player in the -2- that has more freedom and a larger attacking responsibility. When Luiz and Mikel play together, naturally that's going to be Luiz as he offers more going forward.

I've seen a few on here suggest that Luiz should replace Mikel as our primary (holding) DM in the pivot based on his recent performances in the pivot but he's plays a completely different role to Mikel. As @Leif just mentioned above, Luiz is doing a similar job as what Yaya Toure does for City. You can see Yaya at either ends of the pitch but that doesn't mean he's neglecting his defensive responsibility - he's just been given the freedom and is probably encouraged by Mancini to join in on the attacking phase of play. I suspect it's the same with Luiz. Essentially, Mikel could be our Barry, and Luiz our Toure.

Your Lampard analogy is quite relevant but do remember that we did set up a defensive 4-2-3-1, not an expansive one as we see today. In an expansive style of football - there will always be gaps for the opposition to exploit. It's not so much about making sure that everyone is perfectly in position... That's what you do when you're a defensive minded team. What CFC needs to learn is how to defend with the ball. It's our biggest flaw IMO.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Of course both players in the pivot have the responsibility of defending but from what we've seen about the 4-2-3-1 there is always that one player in the -2- that has more freedom and a larger attacking responsibility. When Luiz and Mikel play together, naturally that's going to be Luiz as he offers more going forward.

I've seen a few on here suggest that Luiz should replace Mikel as our primary (holding) DM in the pivot based on his recent performances in the pivot but he's plays a completely different role to Mikel. As @Leif just mentioned above, Luiz is doing a similar job as what Yaya Toure does for City. You can see Yaya at either ends of the pitch but that doesn't mean he's neglecting his defensive responsibility - he's just been given the freedom and is probably encouraged by Mancini to join in on the attacking phase of play. I suspect it's the same with Luiz. Essentially, Mikel could be our Barry, and Luiz our Toure.

Your Lampard analogy is quite relevant but do remember that we did set up a defensive 4-2-3-1, not an expansive one as we see today. In an expansive style of football - there will always be gaps for the opposition to exploit. It's not so much about making sure that everyone is perfectly in position... That's what you do when you're a defensive minded team. What CFC needs to learn is how to defend with the ball. It's our biggest flaw IMO.

I agree about most what you said in there and a brilliant point about defending with the ball.

But I don't think Luiz can be our Toure simply because we play different formations. Yaya plays in a 3-5-2 which allows you to have b2b CMs because you'd still have at least 5 players behind him when he makes his forward runs. I agree that one of the two in the pivot should have more freedom to roam and make forward runs, but not in every attack. I think, even for that role, Luiz has been way out of position way too often. Even if he is given more freedom than Mikel, at no stage should he end up by the opposition's corner flag!

[The only place to be 11,313]

I think, even for that role, Luiz has been way out of position way too often.

It's almost as if he's played the position less than half-a-dozen times.

He's shown enough in his games there for us to continue with the experiment. Yesterday he struggled until Mikel went off, and then he seemed to settle down. His shooting was off but it was the right conditions to test the keeper from that range, especially with the way Norwich defended.

Arguing about what type of midfielder he is after 4 games in that position seems a little premature. Personally I'd be inclined to go with him in midfield against Everton too but that depends on his fitness as well as Mikel and Ramires.

And I'm not sure what point you're making about him being by the opposition's corner flag, but Lampard was in a similar position when he came on too. Clearly Rafa wanted a certain amount of attacking from whoever was playing that position.

[bushman 2,043]

Whatever or however one calls Luiz´ current role at Chelsea, this should have been done much earlier.

Since we all know, his love of going forward left the defense open most of the times. Now, Iva or Cahill can cover the space & he may attack more freely. His kicking technique is pretty good too. Apparently, he even stays behind after training sessions & practice it.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

He's shown enough in his games there for us to continue with the experiment.

Not for me and I've already explained why. But I respect that you think otherwise. It's a case of opinion in the end.

Arguing about what type of midfielder he is after 4 games in that position seems a little premature.

I was merely answering someone who was suggesting where Luiz should be playing in midfield. And I don't think it's premature. It's not like Rafa is going to read TC and change his tactics accordingly We're just expressing opinions and initial thoughts that we can change later.

For me Luiz does not belong in midfield at all. And that's not just based on the 3 games he played there but on everything he showed since arriving at Chelsea 2 years ago.

And I'm not sure what point you're making about him being by the opposition's corner flag, but Lampard was in a similar position when he came on too. Clearly Rafa wanted a certain amount of attacking from whoever was playing that position.

Lampard's lack of positional discipline should not excuse Luiz's. I was saying before Franks injury that he should only be back up in this position because of his wandering out of position. And I still think that our priority in the market, along with a striker, should be a CM to play along side Mikel in the pivot.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Not for me and I've already explained why. But I respect that you think otherwise. It's a case of opinion in the end.

We have a £24 million investment who we don't trust to play in defence, yet might solve some problems in midfield. I saw your comments on his game yesterday, and I also saw the responses of a number of supporters who watched the game and quite vehemently disagreed with you. I doubt you're trolling, but just because it's an opinion doesn't mean it can't be wrong.

In fact the most important point that arose from yesterday's game was whether both Mikel and Luiz can play together. There seemed to be some real problems with positioning and that seemed to coincide with Norwich pressuring us. When Mikel went off we looked a lot more comfortable so maybe we have to start looking at Luiz as our main DM and someone alongside him like Lamps or Rami.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

just because it's an opinion doesn't mean it can't be wrong.

I don't claim otherwise; every opinion by definition can be wrong. I hope you can practice what you preach and remember that the next time you are so sure your opinion is right.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I don't claim otherwise; every opinion by definition can be wrong. I hope you can practice what you preach and remember that the next time you are so sure your opinion is right.

I actually have in this thread. I didn't think he had what it took to be a midfielder, but he's demonstrated that he might. I also questioned his leadership abilities prematurely.

[zolayes 14,489]

imo Luiz seems ideally suited to playing in midfield ... whatever you decide to call the formation ,, sometimes this obsession with the double piivot

makes me want to SCREAMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.. Luiiz is athletic ,, with excellent skills and strength ...don't get bogged down with theory

[Corner 456]

I love these forums but fuck me sometimes reading your over analyitical bullshit makes me wanna bash my head against a moving bus. How can anyone not like Luiz in the DM role... it was made for him. Fuck anyone who says different!

Don't read it then. No one is forcing you to. We're just voicing our opinions (what a form is for).