Roman Abramovich Thread

[Blue Armour 4,165]

This article is a good read:

https://www.football.london/Chelsea-fc/news/Chelsea-points-deduction-relegation-truth-28132310

Explains why it's ridiculous to throw Chelsea into the same hat as Everton and City for now, because the club hasn't officially been charged with anything.

The fear mongering can wait until something truly materializes.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Blue Armour

[OneMoSalah 8,614]

1 hour ago, Blue Armour said:

This article is a good read:

https://www.football.london/Chelsea-fc/news/Chelsea-points-deduction-relegation-truth-28132310

Explains why it's ridiculous to throw Chelsea into the same hat as Everton and City for now, because the club hasn't officially been charged with anything.

The fear mongering can wait until something truly materializes.

I don’t think it is fear mongering at all.

The new ownership threw them the bone so to speak, trying to be transparent (which is the right thing to do) and perhaps thinking it will be more in the clubs favour to get out in front of it if anything were to be made of it. I am convinced there will be some sort of repercussions because if this has happened, it is against the rules. Whether its a fine or point deduction or whatever.

City - who nobody’ll know if they will be proven guilty anytime soon - also will be firmly in the firing line after the Everton situation. Their investigation will take forever though because its for a 10 year period, CAS were involved etc etc.

Regardless, the precedent has now been set by the PL so its obvious that financial doping/irregularities is going to become a stick that they will beat teams with. Not to mention, never mind those allegations there is still going to be question marks regarding spending £1bn in 3 windows under Boehly too. Amortisation or not - the numbers certainly will be checked again in more scrutiny if anything comes of this so we will see if these new owners are as squeaky clean as they claim to be. But these issues are the current owners problems now, not Romans.

There is nothing ridiculous at all to assume we may end up with a large fine or worse by the PL for breaking the rules if proven of doing so. And yes its not official or there hasn’t been any allegations by whomever but that was also the case with Everton and City to a certain point. There is no smoke without fire. Its not like someone made it up and UEFA had fined us for something along the lines of what we are being accused of IIRC. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by OneMoSalah

[Bluepower777 12]

I don't see how anyone can be held accountable for what misdemeanors were created and fulfilled by previous owners or staff. That's like saying I murdered  a person in my house when I was not even living there and long before I set foot in it, which by the way did happen. I think this can go to the highest courts should it be required too.

[Blue Armour 4,165]

On 18/11/2023 at 22:57, OneMoSalah said:

I don’t think it is fear mongering at all.

The new ownership threw them the bone so to speak, trying to be transparent (which is the right thing to do) and perhaps thinking it will be more in the clubs favour to get out in front of it if anything were to be made of it. I am convinced there will be some sort of repercussions because if this has happened, it is against the rules. Whether its a fine or point deduction or whatever.

City - who nobody’ll know if they will be proven guilty anytime soon - also will be firmly in the firing line after the Everton situation. Their investigation will take forever though because its for a 10 year period, CAS were involved etc etc.

Regardless, the precedent has now been set by the PL so its obvious that financial doping/irregularities is going to become a stick that they will beat teams with. Not to mention, never mind those allegations there is still going to be question marks regarding spending £1bn in 3 windows under Boehly too. Amortisation or not - the numbers certainly will be checked again in more scrutiny if anything comes of this so we will see if these new owners are as squeaky clean as they claim to be. But these issues are the current owners problems now, not Romans.

There is nothing ridiculous at all to assume we may end up with a large fine or worse by the PL for breaking the rules if proven of doing so. And yes its not official or there hasn’t been any allegations by whomever but that was also the case with Everton and City to a certain point. There is no smoke without fire. Its not like someone made it up and UEFA had fined us for something along the lines of what we are being accused of IIRC. 

I see where you're coming from, but at the end of the day, the punishment has to fit the crime.

Failing to report finances correctly for FFP, is different from actually falling foul of FFP by a huge margin for a season (for which Everton was, admittedly, a bit unfortunate to fall of in the 21/22 season).

In Chelsea's case, there were the reporting irregularities which the current owners self-reported (and got fined by UEFA for and is currently being investigated by the FA/PL), and now recently, the alleged irregularities reported by the Guardian's investigative journalists. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/15/Chelsea-fc-face-new-questions-over-how-roman-abramovich-funded-success

Let's assume for argument's sake, that these unproven payments were actually made. How would these be directly linked to Chelsea and it's success?

We can review each of the two major ones reported by the Guardian individually, and see there's nothing clear about what the implications are for any of these 'new' allegations:

1. Conte's 2nd season contract extension (AFTER he won a title for us) - 

"On 18 July 2017, the files show, an Abramovich-owned company called Conibair Holdings, based in the British Virgin Islands (BVIs), signed an agreement with Federico Pastorello, an Italian football agent.

The Italian has been described in multiple reports as being close to Antonio Conte, the former Chelsea manager, and has spoken about the manager’s contract negotiations in the media.

Conibair agreed to pay Pastorello £10m for a 75% stake in Excellence Investment Fund (EIF), a business based in the US state of Delaware, documents suggest.

That same day, Chelsea announced that Conte, who had just guided the club to the Premier League title, had signed a new £9.6m-a-year contract."

Pastorello declined to comment on whether the two deals were linked but said: “Antonio Conte is not our client.

"

Questions to ask here - Is it so easy to prove that the deal with Pastorello has anything to do with Conte, when he himself states Conte is not a client?  How does a deal with Pastorello even incentivize Conte to sign an extension (and also a shitty second season to follow, with just one token FA cup). Does that fee, even if proven true to be linked with Conte's extension, necessarily make the club fall foul of FFP?

2. Hazard's agent fee when he first signed for us - 

"Hazard had joined Chelsea in 2012 for €35m, in a marquee signing that followed fraught negotiations with the player’s agent, John Bico-Penaque, who reportedly wanted a sizeable commission worth about £6m.

On 29 March 2013, documents suggest, BVI-based Leiston Holdings, owned by Abramovich, agreed to pay €7m to a Dubai-based company called Gulf Value FZE for “advisory services […] related to […] sport research and consultancy”.

The contract was signed on the company’s behalf by Bico-Penaque. It is unclear whether the payment was declared to footballing authorities including the FA and Bico-Penaque did not return requests for comment."

This one is a bit hilarious because a bunch of internet Gooners are claiming that Hazard would have joined them if it were not for the agent fees.

But the two things to note here - There is no proof whether the payment was already declared for FFP. And even if it wasn't, does that €7m fee actually make Chelsea fall foul of FFP? Hazard was bought for fee less than Torres. Saying that the club failed to report an agent fee and went on to win several titles on the back of Hazard as a result, is as ridiculous as it sounds.

I'm not even going to go into the Eto'o & Willian transfer related allegations because it just isn't frankly worth the time.

At the end of the day, I will agree with you that I am more worried about Chelsea's recent spending, than the alleged past transgressions. 

The club could end up in deep trouble like Everton, if all the crazy spending in recent windows is not matched by success on the pitch, and financial success. All it takes is another international level crisis, or a high money signing with a gambling problem for the wheels to come off. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Blue Armour

[Vesper 27,317]

I have a bad feeling about all this.

My father thinks Citeh and Chels may well get relegated, and he is normally one optimistic Swede.

😢

[bluesman2610 1,226]

I didn’t know where else to put this.

https://www.football.london/Chelsea-fc/news/Chelsea-points-deduction-relegation-truth-28132310

[whats happening 1,440]

7 hours ago, Vesper said:

I have a bad feeling about all this.

My father thinks Citeh and Chels may well get relegated, and he is normally one optimistic Swede.

😢

pl with shoot thelselves in a foot if they relegate us and/or city.

[Vesper 27,317]

On 20/11/2023 at 20:26, whats happening said:

pl with shoot thelselves in a foot if they relegate us and/or city.

I actually think they may look at it the other way

they either smash us both or lose control

no 2 clubs are bigger than the league as a whole

[Vesper 27,317]

btw, if anyone is wondering why Chels the club is under the cosh for what an EX owner did, it is because of the British legal concept of veil of incorporation

 

Veil of incorporation connotes the legal assumption that a corporation or company is a distinct and separate entity or that a corporation possesses a distinct legal personality such that the acts of a corporation are distinct from the acts of its shareholders, directors or managers thereby exempting them from liability for corporate actions.

[Blue Armour 4,165]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

btw, if anyone is wondering why Chels the club is under the cosh for what an EX owner did, it is because of the British legal concept of veil of incorporation

 

Veil of incorporation connotes the legal assumption that a corporation or company is a distinct and separate entity or that a corporation possesses a distinct legal personality such that the acts of a corporation are distinct from the acts of its shareholders, directors or managers thereby exempting them from liability for corporate actions.

The club is definitely going to be punished.

But not to the extent that most people think they are going to be. Certainly not for these allegations from the Roman era.

[Bluepower777 12]

Some good posts here, I'more optimistic as I don't think these so called irregularities can be used as some version of FFP rules . I personally believe a club should be allowed to spend whatever it wishes, it is after all their money, noone needs a Mother  Mary to guide their financial structures. If they stupid enough to go under then so be it, 99.9% highly unlikely in all clubs except a very occasional oddity.

[Vesper 27,317]

Rupert Murdoch, 92, to wed retired molecular biologist Elena Zhukova, 67

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/mar/07/rupert-murdoch-elena-zhukova-engagement

snip

Murdoch met Zhukova through a large family gathering hosted by his third ex-wife, Wendi Deng, whom he stayed married to for 14 years before filing for divorce in 2013.

Her 42-year-old daughter, Dasha Zhukova, is a Russian-American art collector and philanthropist who was previously married to Roman Abramovich, a Russian oligarch and former owner of the Premier League football club Chelsea.

[NikkiCFC 7,582]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/08/europe/navalny-prisoner-swap-deal-abramovich-intl/index.html

Russian oligarch went to Moscow in effort to broker complex prisoner exchange that included Navalny, sources say

Why he had to sell, guy is peacemaker.

 

Edited March 9 by NikkiCFC

[Vesper 27,317]

Marina Granovskaia linked to secret payments by former Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich

Powerful chief executive of Chelsea under Abramovich appears in documents showing offshore payments by oligarch

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/25/marina-granovskaia-role-Chelsea-alleged-financial-breaches-under-investigation-premier-league

The former chief executive of Chelsea, once described as “the most powerful woman in football”, is facing questions about what she knew of secret payments made under the club’s former owner Roman Abramovich, amid a continuing investigation into alleged breaches of football spending rules.

Details of millions of pounds in fees, funded by offshore vehicles belonging to the Russian oligarch, emerged last year as a result of the Cyprus Confidential leaks project, published by the Guardian and international partners.

Documents from the files indicate that Marina Granovskaia, a close associate of Abramovich who ran Chelsea until he sold the club in May 2022, knew about some of the transactions, including a fee paid to the agent of star player Eden Hazard.

She also appears to have benefited personally from some of the payments, raising questions over whether she received extra money from Abramovich for her work at the club, on top of her Chelsea salary. The files suggest offshore companies in the Abramovich network made loans to Granovskaia worth £7.5m to finance the purchase of a house in Fulham, near the club’s Stamford Bridge stadium, and a payment of £1.63m for “financial, tax and legal due diligence”.

The Premier League is investigating whether Abramovich secretly subsidised his team by using offshore companies to make payments which should, under rules designed to ensure fair competition, have been made by the club itself from its own bank accounts.

The material raises questions about oversight of the club’s affairs by its board, which was chaired by the American lawyer Bruce Buck during Abramovich’s highly successful reign. Buck was a partner at the law firm Skadden, which acted for Chelsea and Abramovich for two decades, and held senior positions at the Premier League, which acts as both regulator and promoter for its member clubs.

The Premier League investigation was triggered after the club’s new owners, a consortium whose figurehead is US investor Todd Boehly, reported suspected breaches by previous management. An independent panel of sports law experts will be convened that could summon former club executives to give evidence. Should the panel find Chelsea guilty, it has the power to impose financial or sporting punishments, such as a points deduction.

No details of the transactions under investigation have been publicly disclosed by the club or its regulators.

However, a leak of documents from an accounting firm in Cyprus which acted for Abramovich revealed a series of payments over a decade to managers, scouts and football agents connected to Chelsea. The information, which was published as part of the Cyprus Confidential series, was shared with the Guardian by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) and Germany’s Paper Trail Media.

Beneficiaries of secret payments included the agent of Hazard, the files suggest, while other transactions appear to have been connected to the purchase of the Brazil forward Willian and the Cameroon striker Samuel Eto’o.

Granovskaia appears to have been sent copies of agreements relating to those payments.

The Russian, 49, rose from working as Abramovich’s executive assistant to overseeing Chelsea’s financial and sporting affairs on the oligarch’s behalf, a job that saw her dubbed the “most powerful woman in football”.

Less than a month after she became chief executive of the club in October 2014, the British Virgin Islands-registered Ovington Worldwide – owned by Abramovich – agreed to make three loans to Granovskaia worth a combined £12.5m, documents in the leak reveal.

According to credit agreements, two of the loans, dated November 2014 and worth a combined £7.5m, were to finance the purchase of a property.

Less than six months later, Land Registry filings show, Granovskaia bought a home in London for £5.05m.

At least £7.5m of the debt to Abramovich was due to be waived under subsequent debt forgiveness deeds.

On top of the loans, between 2010 and 2019 Ovington Worldwide agreed to pay her at least £1.63m under an advisory services agreement for “financial, tax and legal due diligence”.

Leading sports lawyers have previously told the Guardian that any payment for services to Chelsea ought to have been borne by the club and that any failure to disclose them in the club’s accounts might be seen as a breach of Premier League rules.

The documents also suggest that Granovskaia may have known of payments made by one of Abramovich’s offshore vehicles to a football agent and an adviser, both of whom did business with Chelsea.

In April 2013, the Cyprus-based financial services firm MeritServus, which managed offshore companies for Roman Abramovich, wrote to Granovskaia at her postal address at Chelsea’s stadium.

MeritServus said it had enclosed a copy of an “advisory services agreement” with Gulf Value FZE, a company owned by John Bico, the former agent of Hazard. As the Guardian has previously revealed, the agreement involved Bico’s company receiving a £7m fee from Leiston Holdings, an offshore company owned by Abramovich.

A year earlier, MeritServus also sent Granovskaia a copy of an advisory agreement between Leiston and the former Dutch football coach Piet De Visser, who became one of Abramovich’s most trusted advisers during his ownership of Chelsea.

Under the agreement, Leiston agreed to pay De Visser a €48,000 “retainer” and a further €4,000 a month for “scouting and other football related advice”, over 12 months.

Granovskaia did not return requests for comment.

Chelsea’s free-spending strategy under Abramovich has long attracted concern within football, with the then Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger describing it as “financial doping” in 2005. The former Uefa president Michel Platini warned in 2008 that “the ones who cheat [with debt-fuelled spending] are going on to win”.

But the Premier League, which oversees top club’s finances, did not open an investigation into Chelsea until last year, after the club’s new owners reported that “incomplete financial information” had been submitted during Abramovich’s tenure.

In 2012, while Buck was chairman of Chelsea and the Premier League’s pay committee, he promised Chelsea would comply with Uefa’s “financial fair play” spending limits, imposed in 2011, via legitimate means.

These, he said, would include cutting spending and increasing sponsorship revenues. The following year, he criticised FFP rules, which he said risked maintaining the “status quo” in football. The Premier League imposed its own spending limits two years later.

Leaked files indicate that Skadden, the law firm where Buck was a partner, may have performed work for Leiston Holdings, the offshore vehicle owned by Abramovich that was the source of many of the payments likely to be investigated by the Premier League.

In a document that describes Leiston as the “customer” and Abramovich’s personal investment firm Millhouse as the “executor”, Skadden is listed among companies to have provided services requiring “transfer outside Russian federation” during 2014. Buck’s name does not appear in the document.

Lawyers for Buck did not return requests for comment. Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom did not return requests for comment.

Chelsea FC has previously said that the payments pre-date the current ownership regime and that the club had self-reported “potential financial irregularities” from that period to the football authorities.

[milka 3,308]

The campaign led by Clownlake  against the former leadership  is a shameful. Abramovich left the club with no obligations, no talk of deducting points , a club in excellent condition, an elite club that just won everything, and these clowns just to hide that they have no idea how to manage a club, they are trying to discredit Abramovich. The stories that they almost saved the club are nonsense, another PR . Get out of the club clowns .

[bluesman2610 1,226]

3 hours ago, milka said:

The campaign led by Clownlake  against the former leadership  is a shameful. Abramovich left the club with no obligations, no talk of deducting points , a club in excellent condition, an elite club that just won everything, and these clowns just to hide that they have no idea how to manage a club, they are trying to discredit Abramovich. The stories that they almost saved the club are nonsense, another PR . Get out of the club clowns .

You’ve got to be kidding right I get we don’t like the current board but clearly there were misgivings by the previous regime. Clearlake didn’t make these sketchy payments.

[Blue Armour 4,165]

18 hours ago, milka said:

The campaign led by Clownlake  against the former leadership  is a shameful. Abramovich left the club with no obligations, no talk of deducting points , a club in excellent condition, an elite club that just won everything, and these clowns just to hide that they have no idea how to manage a club, they are trying to discredit Abramovich. The stories that they almost saved the club are nonsense, another PR . Get out of the club clowns .

Even if I doubt there's going to be significant impact from this, I agree with Clownlake making any information that they have, available upfront sooner rather than later.

If there's even a remote chance of punishment from this, the blow will be lessened if the club is more proactive., and cooperates with the Premier League fully. 

That said, I'm more worried about Clownlake's actions in recent transfer windows.  Hopefully there will be no repercussions from that.

 

[NikkiCFC 7,582]

Milan Mandaric former Leicester and Portsmouth owner gave interview here in Serbia and spoke about Roman and time he spent with him. But most interesting part is when he said Roman will buy Chelsea again for 1£ it's only a matter of time. 

Edited April 13 by NikkiCFC