Politics & Stuff

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

LOL I found it funny. I just love Stewart

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Just to provide a bit of balance because it seems the conversation has now been slanted terribly in one direction. Like I said earlier, it's impossible to discuss the Israel-Palestine issue without religious bias getting in the way of common sense and reason. The reality is that except for the few gullible, most people in the West are not buying the propaganda anymore, not even the Neo-Liberals.

Hamas, which is nothing more than a terrorist organisation democratically voted in by the people of Palestine indiscriminately fires rockets into the Israel year in year out with the intention to kill and destroy the Jews and wipe them of the face of the earth. Just this year alone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014 The Iron Dome of course intercepts these rockets. The moment Israel sees it fit to defend itself, there is a national cry by the Petro-dollar funded Islamic lobby against the "Zionists" really just a code word for "Jew" as the two have now become interchangeable. Hamas use the Palestinian kids as human shields (as they like to tell us), strategically locating little kids near weapon storage warehouses or intentionally ignoring intel on impending airstrikes. Of course the parents of these kids are all to willing to let their children die as Martyrs all "for the sake of Allah". The Palestinian children are being brainwashed to hate the "Zionists". I can think of no form of evil greater than that.

Who the hell on earth does this?

We see it year after year, Hamas shooting rockets into civilian area with the hope of killing "Zionists". It's a rinse and repeat.

(1) Hamas rejects cease-fire.

(2) Hamas shoots rockets with areas with children.

(3) Children die.

Who is the real enemy of the Palestinians? It's Hamas and it's virulent radical element. This is the most balanced video I've seen explaining how Palestinians do not have a right to the land they claim.

Unfortunately, I've come to understand that most of the Muslim hostility towards the Jew is purely a religious issue and has nothing to do with land. It started with Muhammad and the Jewish tribes in Arabia and it continues today in the Muslim world. It's much more than "land". Anyone saying otherwise is being ignorant at best and deceptive at worst. Many people are not aware that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem joined forces with Hitler in the last years of The Third Reich and helped Germany recruit Bosnian soldiers to join the SS army and help slaughter the Jews. This was 5 years before Israel was even a state.

On a more general note, using words like "genocide" on this forum and on other forums where I see words like "Apartheid", "Holocaust" being used to describe what is happening in Gaza is not clever and it infact demeans real genocides and Apartheid that have occurred in the past. If Israel really wanted to commit genocide against these people, they will be dead in 24 hours. Real genocides are being committed in places like Nigeria and Kashmir where Christians and Hindus are being target and killed because of their religion by Islamic terrorists. The things I hear from back home scares me. Nigeria is no longer a safe place to live anymore, because of the Boko Haram. Jihad is being fought in India, Pakistan, Nigeria, North Africa, Chechnya and the ME in general. Don't even let me get started on the Cultural Jihad being waged on the Western European countries. Isn't it a fucked world when a Danish cartoonist draws a cartoon about Muhammad and Muslims riot, burn down flags (mostly USA and Israel flags) and destroy the embassies but when mini-genocides are committed in the name of Islam, there is complete silence. When the Jews protect themselves the world goes nuts. Just look at this.

Any non-Muslim will say that's hypocrisy and lack of empathy. And again, I think that stems from the texts of the Qur'an and Hadiths and it's very negative attitude toward the unbeliever.

Look, I'm not typing all of this to be mean of to be offensive to anyone of you guys because I consider you (the Muslims is who I'm addressing now) decent people and supporters of my beloved Chelsea but a much needed reformation of Islam and serious condemnation of the acts of these terrorists and mad men is needed. When is the killing in the name of Islam going to end? Leg dragging on the matter won't do. "Islamophobia" and all these other now popular catch-phrases won't do. Put yourself in the shoes of a non-Muslim and think about it.

Finally, all this Israel Zionist blame game has been done before. Many have historically blamed the Jews for all the world's problems. It's just sad to me as a "neutral" in all of this. In the Third Reich, Hitler systematically stripped the Jews of all their basic human rights till the Final Solution were he wiped out 67% of Jews on the earth. Speak of genocide. The same tired anti-semitic stuff I hear Hamas preaching and radical Muslim leaders and teachers speaking in 2014. That's saddening and my heart truly aches for the kids in the Middle East having to be indoctrinated to believe what can simply be defined as pure evil and hate. It's happened before. Here is a Nazi propaganda film blaming the "Zionists". All through creation Satan has and continues to use different people to destroy the Jews. Anyone who has read the Bible knows why.

P.S : This was just a general observation on what I and many others in the States and beyond observe in the world around us today concerning the Isreali-Palestine conflict, the Middle East and the Muslim World. I won't reply to any of this. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. God bless.

This is so wrong and out of context. You just epitomized someone brainwashed by Zionist propaganda. Let's start with what is factually wrong with what you just posted:

"This is an issue about religion". WRONG. This is an issue about land, equality, and the basic human rights of Palestinians. The proof? The Jews and Muslims and the Christians lived peacefully together in Palestine, as well as in Lebanon, and north Africa until Zionism came along in teh early 20th century to rob Palestinians of their land and their rights. In fact, Theodor Herzl, the creator of Zionism was an atheist!

"This a historical struggle between Jews and Muslims". WRONG. Couldn't be further from the truth actually. Historically, Jews and Muslims got along very well together and the Jews that were oppressed and persecuted in the Christian west were always treated A LOT better in the Muslim world. That is why, for example, when the Arabs left Andalusia, the Jews came back with them to the Muslim world. In general, Islam and Judaism have a lot in common. Much more than with Christianity. A lot of Muslim traditions and practices come from Judaism.

"This is not a genocide". The what do you call trapping 2 million people in a 350 squared kilometers land, with all borders blocked and sieged even the one to the sea, with no supplies from outside the land allowed in, being bombed by the most advanced weapons in the world? A hunting sport??!

Now, lets put some of the things you said into context:

First you are quick to point out that the "terrorist" Hamas is the route of this problem. Then how do you explain decades of Israel attacking and murdering Palestinians before Hamas. Hamas are new to the struggle. I already pointed out to you (which you ignored) that the struggle started with a much more secular and liberal Arabic parties. But Israel made a point of assassinating all the educated people of this secular resistance. Doctors, writers, poets, leaders, even caricature artists murdered by the dozens in the 60s, 70s and 80s and not just in Palestine or even Lebanon, but all over the world. The reason that Hamas are at the front of this struggle now is that Israel brought them there and Israel wants them there. Israel wants the Palestinians to be religious extremists, not doctors and artists, because it would look better when they kill them.

Second, the "human shields". Besides the fact that "Hamas positions children strategically" is something beyond stupid to say, and that that video is mistranslated as you should have been able to tell by the fact that all comments have been disabled for it to prevent people from correctly translating it. But what is correct is that the people of Gaza have often tried to protect their own homes with their bare chests. Let's forget for second the obvious question of why Israel feels the need to target civilian homes (are the rockets being fired from the living room?), how can you not ask yourself the question of what has led a human being to this desperate situation. What are the circumstances that have forced a human being to stand on the roof of his home before it gets bombed because he has no other choice?

"Hamas attacks Israel each year with hundreds of rockets." How about saying why? Do you think that the Palestinians like having their houses bombed and their loved ones killed? Hamas, and all the resistance before it, fire rockets because it is their last means of resisting, of fighting for what remains of their basic human rights.

This is exactly the propaganda that brainwashes people: Leaving out the events that have lead to the current situation, leaving out history and any sort of context. Not mentioning the living conditions of the Palestinian people and the racism they suffer from on a daily basis.

"Israel are defending themselves." How? Please explain to me what exactly are the airstrikes targeting and what exactly does that achieve.

The attacks are meant to terrorize and punish the Palestinian civilians. There is no denying that.

[Fulham Broadway 17,333]

This is so wrong and out of context. You just epitomized someone brainwashed by Zionist propaganda. Let's start with what is factually wrong with what you just posted:

"This is an issue about religion". WRONG. This is an issue about land, equality, and the basic human rights of Palestinians. The proof? The Jews and Muslims and the Christians lived peacefully together in Palestine, as well as in Lebanon, and north Africa until Zionism came along in teh early 20th century to rob Palestinians of their land and their rights. In fact, Theodor Herzl, the creator of Zionism was an atheist!

"This a historical struggle between Jews and Muslims". WRONG. Couldn't be further from the truth actually. Historically, Jews and Muslims got along very well together and the Jews that were oppressed and persecuted in the Christian west were always treated A LOT better in the Muslim world. That is why, for example, when the Arabs left Andalusia, the Jews came back with them to the Muslim world. In general, Islam and Judaism have a lot in common. Much more than with Christianity. A lot of Muslim traditions and practices come from Judaism.

"This is not a genocide". The what do you call trapping 2 million people in a 350 squared kilometers land, with all borders blocked and sieged even the one to the sea, with no supplies from outside the land allowed in, being bombed by the most advanced weapons in the world? A hunting sport??!

Now, lets put some of the things you said into context:

First you are quick to point out that the "terrorist" Hamas is the route of this problem. Then how do you explain decades of Israel attacking and murdering Palestinians before Hamas. Hamas are new to the struggle. I already pointed out to you (which you ignored) that the struggle started with a much more secular and liberal Arabic parties. But Israel made a point of assassinating all the educated people of this secular resistance. Doctors, writers, poets, leaders, even caricature artists murdered by the dozens in the 60s, 70s and 80s and not just in Palestine or even Lebanon, but all over the world. The reason that Hamas are at the front of this struggle now is that Israel brought them there and Israel wants them there. Israel wants the Palestinians to be religious extremists, not doctors and artists, because it would look better when they kill them.

Second, the "human shields". Besides the fact that "Hamas positions children strategically" is something beyond stupid to say, and that that video is mistranslated as you should have been able to tell by the fact that all comments have been disabled for it to prevent people from correctly translating it. But what is correct is that the people of Gaza have often tried to protect their own homes with their bare chests. Let's forget for second the obvious question of why Israel feels the need to target civilian homes (are the rockets being fired from the living room?), how can you not ask yourself the question of what has led a human being to this desperate situation. What are the circumstances that have forced a human being to stand on the roof of his home before it gets bombed because he has no other choice?

"Hamas attacks Israel each year with hundreds of rockets." How about saying why? Do you think that the Palestinians like having their houses bombed and their loved ones killed? Hamas, and all the resistance before it, fire rockets because it is their last means of resisting, of fighting for what remains of their basic human rights.

This is exactly the propaganda that brainwashes people: Leaving out the events that have lead to the current situation, leaving out history and any sort of context. Not mentioning the living conditions of the Palestinian people and the racism they suffer from on a daily basis.

"Israel are defending themselves." How? Please explain to me what exactly are the airstrikes targeting and what exactly does that achieve.

The attacks are meant to terrorize and punish the Palestinian civilians. There is no denying that.

Such an accurate and artculate response, double like if possible.

Returning to the media coverage a minute, we keep hearing how Hamas has broken the 'ceasefire'. Do we really know this ?

Lets not forget this information comes from Israeli sources to selected Western media outlets. Lets not forget IDF soldiers from their own accounts, are instructed to provoke Palestinian families into a 'response'. Western TV media groups in Gaza have to get 'permission' from Israel and account for all there whereabouts for 'safety'. So........the Israelis know exactly where and when the TV crews are in Gaza at any one time. Not only does Israel control the amount of calories for each Gaza inmate, and water given out, and medecines that it deems suitable -it also controls the dissemination of information.

[oldportblue 547]

Such an accurate and artculate response, double like if possible.

Returning to the media coverage a minute, we keep hearing how Hamas has broken the 'ceasefire'. Do we really know this ?

Lets not forget this information comes from Israeli sources to selected Western media outlets. Lets not forget IDF soldiers from their own accounts, are instructed to provoke Palestinian families into a 'response'. Western TV media groups in Gaza have to get 'permission' from Israel and account for all there whereabouts for 'safety'. So........the Israelis know exactly where and when the TV crews are in Gaza at any one time. Not only does Israel control the amount of calories for each Gaza inmate, and water given out, and medecines that it deems suitable -it also controls the dissemination of information.

so much BS don't know where to start... i'll stick to this forum for chelsea related stuff or else these sorts of ridiculous responses will drive me to waste my entire work day, too much misinformation to sift through... at least excalibur knows what's up

[LDN Blue 7,903]

so much BS don't know where to start... i'll stick to this forum for chelsea related stuff or else these sorts of ridiculous responses will drive me to waste my entire work day, too much misinformation to sift through... at least excalibur knows what's up

so you wrote in this thread to tell us you're not going to write in this thread?

[Stingray 9,441]

so much BS don't know where to start... i'll stick to this forum for chelsea related stuff or else these sorts of ridiculous responses will drive me to waste my entire work day, too much misinformation to sift through... at least excalibur knows what's up

Thanks for that valuable input. Country: USA; interests: Bible from your profile

That kinda sums up your position really. Too bad no input beyond a few cries like 'bs' and 'misinformation' and all that Jazz.

If that is disinformed, the UN is misinformed, Human Rights Watch is misinformed. The israeli intelligence service is misinformed. Hell, even Obama is misinformed.

I bet you even think Darwin was misinformed :-)

[oldportblue 547]

so you wrote in this thread to tell us you're not going to write in this thread?

basically i love political discussions but they're just so emotional, argumentative and time consuming and i'm sure i'll end up having beefs with people here i would otherwise get along with fine, i realized this when visiting this thread but couldn't resist at least posting something lol... now i'm out for good, have fun people! lol

Thanks for that valuable input. Country: USA; interests: Bible from your profile

That kinda sums up your position really. Too bad no input beyond a few cries like 'bs' and 'misinformation' and all that Jazz.

If that is disinformed, the UN is misinformed, Human Rights Watch is misinformed. The israeli intelligence service is misinformed. Hell, even Obama is misinformed.

I bet you even think Darwin was misinformed :-)

country USA? you can't even get a basic fact right... obviously having an in-depth discussion with you on the most complex issues of our times would be a futile exercise... again, so long!

[Stingray 9,441]

dp

[Kieran. 6,317]

How can someone see that Israel has killed almost 2,000 Palestinian children (compared to barely 100 Israeli kids) over the past ten years and continue to support this terror regime?

[Stingray 9,441]

basically i love political discussions but they're just so emotional, argumentative and time consuming and i'm sure i'll end up having beefs with people here i would otherwise get along with fine, i realized this when visiting this thread but couldn't resist at least posting something lol... now i'm out for good, have fun people! lol

country USA? you can't even get a basic fact right... obviously having an in-depth discussion with you on the most complex issues of our times would be a futile exercise... again, so long!

Ok my bad Canada :-) i just saw the CA on tapatalk and assumed California.

Obviously you dont know me that well. Ive given nothing but in depth argumentation. You did zip but say its all bs and remarked you arent going to make a remark.

Pure class.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

How can someone see that Israel has killed almost 2,000 Palestinian children (compared to barely 100 Israeli kids) over the past ten years and continue to support this terror regime?

Because you're oblivious to the fact that Hamas, the terrorist group (as recognized by the US and some other countries) uses Palestine children as human shields thus causing thoroughly preventable tragedies. They say this themselves as evidenced by the video I posted. Here's another more recent one from a senior spokesman of Hamas admitting to this heinous, disgusting practice. They tell you to your face still you blame Israel:

Why do they sacrifice their children in such a manner? It's two fold. So that they die as "Matyrs" for the "cause of Allah". And so that Israel can be painted as the brutal "Zionist" regime to the international community. Of course the Neo-Liberals and the far-right in some of these Western European countries will eat it up because of their (historical) own antisemitism.

The supposed "genocide" in Gaza seems to be producing an increase in population of Muslims in that region. Must be a miracle. The only genocide I know that actually increases the population. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gz.html

Meanwhile, the Turks are yet to take responsibility (or even recognize) for a real genocide on the Armenian people, I digress.

I'll like to see a similar act of solidarity to the victim from the Muslim community when a Muslim radical who "misrepresents" Islam carries out another terrorist attack in the name of Islam. It seems to me Muslims are only seriously bothered when it's other Muslims being victims of supposed injustice but if it's a non-Muslim, there's deafening silence. And therein lies the biggest problem and the biggest hypocrisy.

[Stingray 9,441]

The supposed "genocide" in Gaza seems to be producing an increase in population of Muslims in that region. Must be a miracle.

Statistics mate. High birthrate, high fertility rate. Not a miracle, those do not exist.

Also on the same page and source:

What is really funny is that data comes from UNRWA, United Nations Relief and Works Agency. They say EXACTLY the same thing as we have been saying : http://www.unrwa.org and it is the source the CIA uses. COMON!!!! How much more evidence do you even need.

They also say this : "According to Israel UNRWA is unobjective and choses sides for Palestine" furthermore on their site: In the aftermath of the hostilities of June 1967 and the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, ten camps were established to accommodate a new wave of displaced persons, both refugees and non-refugees.

Huh, occupation? really? Of palestinian land mind you (which it is de facto - just ask yourself, where is Israels official border? it always becomes silent after I ask this question) on a UN site the CIA refers to? Really?

And ... immigration rate ....

Why would that be, because its such a nice place to live? everything taken care of by Israel: gas, electricity, etc. as mentioned before here a couple of times.

[Fulham Broadway 17,333]

In a study of BBC television news coverage, the Glasgow Media Group documented differences in the language used by journalists for Israelis and Palestinians. The study found that terms such as "atrocity," "brutal murder," "mass murder," "savage cold blooded killing," "lynching" and "slaughter" were used describe the death of Israelis but not for the death of Palestinians. The word "terrorist" was often used to describe Palestinians. However, in reports of an Israeli group attempting to bomb a Palestinian school members of the Israeli group were referred to as "extremists" or "vigilantes" but not as "terrorists."

[Stingray 9,441]

People should actually check UNRWA who have lots of camps there to see the truth :

Camp Nuseirat:

A busy and crowded camp, Nuseirat is currently home to more than 66,000 refugees. Set in the middle of the Gaza Strip, Nuseirat is very near Bureij and Maghazi camps.

Nuseirat, which takes its name from a local Bedouin tribe, initially accommodated 16,000 refugees who fled from the southern districts of Palestine after the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, including the coast and Be’er Sheva. Before the camp was formed, refugees had to live in a former British military prison in the area.

BLOCKADE

The blockade on Gaza has made life more difficult for nearly all refugees in the camp, which now has extremely high unemployment. Far fewer families can provide for themselves and a staggering proportion of the population dependent on UNRWA’s food and cash assistance.

Ninety per cent of the water is unfit for human consumption, so basic hygiene is another great concern.

STATISTICS

1. More than 66,000 registered refugees
2. 11 school buildings, of which 9 operate on a double-shift basis, accommodating 20 schools
3. One food distribution centre
4. Two health centres

MAJOR PROBLEMS

1. Electricity cuts
2. High unemployment
3. Three-mile fishing limit
4. High population density
5. suppliesContaminated water supply
6. Lack of availability of construction materials

Camp 'Beach'

he third largest of the Gaza Strip’s eight refugee camps – and one of the most crowded – Beach camp is known locally as "Shati". The camp is on the Mediterranean coast in the Gaza City area.

Beach camp initially accommodated 23,000 refugees who fled from Lydd, Jaffa, Be’er Sheva and other areas of Palestine. The camp is now home to more than 87,000 refugees, who all reside in an area of only 0.52 square kilometres.

Streets and alleys in the camp are often very narrow and the area is considered among the most densely populated in the world

BLOCKADE

Unemployment has risen considerably since the blockade was imposed on Gaza, making life more difficult for most refugees in Beach camp. Far fewer families can provide for themselves and a huge proportion of the population is dependent on UNRWA’s food and cash assistance.

At the same time, the ban on entry of cement and gravel has made it impossible for refugees to build or repair shelters. Basic hygiene is also of great concern, as 90 per cent of the water is unfit for human consumption.

FISHING LIMIT

The Israel Defense Forces’ imposition of a three-mile fishing limit has particularly affected Beach camp. The diminished fishing catch has led to lost livelihoods and increased poverty.

STATISTICS

1. More than 87,000 registered refugees
2. 16 school buildings running on double shifts to accommodate 32 schools. UNRWA also uses a Palestinian Authority school building for one school in the afternoon.
3. One food distribution centre
4. One health centre

MAJOR PROBLEMS

1. Electricity cuts
2. High unemployment
3. Three-mile fishing limit
4. High population density
5. Contaminated water supply
6. Lack of availability of construction materials

Camp Bureij

Bureij camp is a comparatively small refugee camp located in the middle of the Gaza Strip. The camp is near Maghazi and Nuseirat refugee camps.

Bureij camp was built in the 1950s to house approximately 13,000 refugees who until then had lived in British army barracks and tents. The refugees who settled in Bureij had mostly come from towns east of Gaza, such as Falouja. Today, the refugee population of Bureij is more than 34,000.

BLOCKADE

The blockade on Gaza has made life more difficult for most camp residents. Unemployment levels have risen dramatically and fewer families can provide for themselves, leaving a staggering proportion of the population dependent on UNRWA’s food and cash aid.

WATER AND SANITATION

Bureij camp is located close to Wadi Gaza, an open sewage pond from which raw sewage flows directly into the sea. According to the United Nations Environment Programme, up to 80,000 cubic metres of raw or partially treated sewage are pumped out to the ocean in Gaza each day, resulting in serious environmental health risks, including watery and bloody diarrhoea among refugee children.

In the camp, 90 per cent of the water is unfit for human consumption.

STATISTICS

Over 34,000 registered refugees
Seven school buildings, four of which run on a double-shift basis, accommodating 11 schools, four running on double shifts
One food distribution centre
One health centre

MAJOR PROBLEMS

Electricity cuts
High unemployment
High population density
Lack of availability of construction materials
Contaminated water supply and proximity to Wadi Gaza

It goes on and on. Ill give some highlights:

Jabalia is the closest camp to Erez border crossing with Israel. According to OCHA, before the second Intifada, more than 21,000 Palestinians crossed Erez to work in Israel each day. Since 12 June 2007, the crossing has been closed to pedestrian traffic, with very limited exceptions made for medical and business cases.

Kahn Younis:

Over the years, many of the refugees living in Khan Younis lost their shelters in Israel Defense Forces operations. Prior to the imposition of the blockade, UNRWA had commenced a significant re-housing project to accommodate all those who had lost their shelters. However, the blockade prevented UNRWA from bringing in construction materials to complete the project, leaving thousands of people without permanent shelters. UNRWA only received permission in 2010 to bring in the materials to complete a number of housing units for refugees whose shelters were demolished years ago. UNRWA estimates that it must construct a minimum of 10,000 shelters to re-house refugees currently living in unacceptable conditions and/or who have lost their homes as a result of the conflict.

Maghazi:

No construction or repair work can take place as the blockade prevents Gazans from importing building materials. This has intensified problems housing the expanding population and maintaining the camp’s overstretched infrastructure.

http://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/gaza-strip/camp-profiles?field=1

UNRWA is no 'biased' organization. As I said , it is the organization that is THERE and it is the organization the CIA gets its intel from (see website in former post).

What do candle and glasses help if the monkey just refuses to see ...

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Statistics mate. High birthrate, high fertility rate. Not a miracle, those do not exist.

Also on the same page and source:

Schermafbeelding 2014-07-17 om 18.13.51.png

What is really funny is that data comes from UNRWA, United Nations Relief and Works Agency. They say EXACTLY the same thing as we have been saying : http://www.unrwa.org and it is the source the CIA uses. COMON!!!! How much more evidence do you even need.

They also say this : "According to Israel UNRWA is unobjective and choses sides for Palestine" furthermore on their site: In the aftermath of the hostilities of June 1967 and the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, ten camps were established to accommodate a new wave of displaced persons, both refugees and non-refugees.

Huh, occupation? really? Of palestinian land mind you (which it is de facto - just ask yourself, where is Israels official border? it always becomes silent after I ask this question) on a UN site the CIA refers to? Really?

And ... immigration rate ....

Schermafbeelding 2014-07-17 om 18.15.57.png

Why would that be, because its such a nice place to live? everything taken care of by Israel: gas, electricity, etc. as mentioned before here a couple of times.

Again, still can't see the supposed genocide. Genocides wipe out population not build it up. Can you site an example of any historical genocide (the word rightly used) were there is a high population increase? These stats are also easily available on Wikipidia anyway and any other population data accumulation site. And who is denying there is an occupation? You sure you know it's official terminology right? And what does that have to do with my comment? Nothing. More strawman points. You aren't even listening. One thing enters one ear and goes out through the next.

Let's face it, Muslims living in the big cities in Israel are much more well off than Shia Muslims who get murdered regularly by Sunni's for being the "wrong" kind of Muslim. Same thing in Pakistan to where the Shia's are anything but safe and live in constant fear. Or you think Saudi Arabia is such a "nice" place to live? Where Muslims are killed outright if they choose to depart from the faith and adulterers are stoned to death? Get real.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And the same thing applies to the copy and paste job above.

[Stingray 9,441]

Again, still can't see the supposed genocide. Genocides wipe out population not build it up. Can you site an example of any historical genocide (the word rightly used) were there is a high population increase? These stats are also easily available on Wikipidia anyway and any other population data accumulation site. And who is denying there is an occupation? You sure you know it's official terminology right? And what does that have to do with my comment? Nothing. More strawman points. You aren't even listening. One thing enters one ear and goes out through the next.

Let's face it, Muslims living in the big cities in Israel are much more well off than Shia Muslims who get murdered regularly by Sunni's for being the "wrong" kind of Muslim. Same thing in Pakistan to where the Shia's are anything but safe and live in constant fear. Or you think Saudi Arabia is such a "nice" place to live? Where Muslims are killed outright if they choose to depart from the faith and adulterers are stoned to death? Get real.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And the same thing applies to the copy and paste job above.

I called it ethnic cleansing not genocide if you want to debate definitions. Also, so because it is bad somewhere else this excuses what happens in Gaza. Muslims in Saudi have it much better, than the people in Gaza and this is what it is about. Quod non. And I am not even listening? You guys never respond to my data or argumentation, you just jump to another topic and go on.

[Stingray 9,441]

Read this then, Commissioner-General of UN on the situation in the Gaza strip (14 july).

Thank you for joining us at this press briefing.

As we stand here, the Gaza Strip is once again experiencing very dramatic circumstances, circumstances we had hoped it would never have to experience again. The population of Gaza, including Palestine refugees, is once again enduring great suffering and many have lost their lives or sustained serious injuries.

As Commissioner-General of UNRWA, I have come to Gaza, together with Humanitarian Coordinator James Rawley, to directly observe the situation resulting from the widening military operations. I also came to discuss with our Director of Operations in Gaza, Mr. Robert Turner, the level of UNRWA's preparedness and emergency response capabilities.

I am deeply alarmed and affected by the escalation of violence in the Gaza Strip and the devastating human and physical toll it is taking on civilians, including Palestine refugees. The casualty numbers are now said to lie at 174 killed and over 1,100 wounded. All indications are -and I find this particulary dramatic - that women and children make up a sizable number of victims of the current strikes. I am equally disturbed that people with disabilities are among the victims, reportedly as a result of Israeli strikes.

What began with the extensive use of air power could expand into a ground operation with an actual Israeli military incursion into Gaza, leading to a fear that more and more civilians will be affected. Meanwhile, rockets continue to be fired at various Israeli cities from within the Strip.

We have all seen the images of smoke rising from different areas of Gaza. We have seen the destruction wrought by the bombing campaign. As I map the destruction for myself today, let me draw your attention to two things:

First, never will even the most impressive television footage properly capture the depth of fear and despair felt in the homes and hearts of Gazans who are yet again facing death, devastation and displacement. Thousands of parents today have no more answers to give to their young children when they are asked why their houses are shaking or breaking under the weight and relentless force of the bombardments.

Second, we must be careful about the endless enumeration of casualty numbers. The dead and injured in Gaza are not anonymous. Behind the figures lie multiple individual destinies now torn apart. Too often in their lives have Gazan civilians been denied their dignity. Anonymity in death or injury is the ultimate denial. It is also too comfortable for the world and the parties engaged in the hostilities. Palestinians are not statistics and we must never allow them to be treated as such. They are human beings like others in the world, with their identity and the same hopes and expectations for an improved future for their children.

In this context, I urgently call on the Israeli Security Forces to put an end to attacks against, or endangering, civilians and civilian infrastructure which are contrary to international humanitarian law. In Gaza, risks are compounded by the very high population density. Maximum restraint must be exercised and measures of distinction, proportionality and precaution must be respected to avoid further casualties and overall destabilization. Clearly at this stage not enough is being done in that regard. Too many lives are being lost and this must end. If calm is not quickly restored, the casualty levels will become even more intolerable and unacceptable. I echo the United Nations' call for all parties to respect international law, and protect the civilian population. This includes an end to rocket fire from Gaza aimed at Israel, which the United Nations has described as indiscriminate.

During my visit, I intend to meet with UNRWA teams. As you know, we recently declared an emergency for our operations in all five areas of Gaza. In recent days, we have dealt with several emergencies. We have 12,500 national and international staff in Gaza and I want here to pay tribute to their formidable courage and resolve. In the past hours, as a direct result of military operations, approximately 17,000 refugees have sought refuge in our 20 schools, some being displaced to the very same classrooms for the third time in five years. Let me recall that, during the Gaza fighting in 2008/9 over 50,000 people took sanctuary in UNRWA installations. People who came to UNRWA installations because they thought they could find safety and security were killed. In one incident, the UNRWA compound in Gaza where hundreds had taken refuge took a direct hit and the main UNRWA warehouse was burnt to the ground.

Worryingly, already 47 of our premises, whether schools, clinics or warehouses have been damaged by the air raids and other fire. The inviolability of our installations and premises must be respected, in accordance with international law.

Together with our partners in the UN system, with other local and international agencies present in Gaza, we are committed to keep this engagement strong and effective for as long as it takes. I call here on the donor and state community to ensure that these activities are properly funded.

During my first visit to Gaza as Commissioner-General three months ago, it became evident to me that the situation of the population of Gaza and of Palestine Refugees here has become completely unsustainable. Israel’s illegal blockade has deepened poverty levels and youth or female unemployment levels (at 65% and over 80% respectively). Gaza's aquifer will have been entirely contaminated in the next three to four years making the strip essentially unlivable. But today, these indicators pale in comparison to the intensity of the bombardments and the fears for security and survival.

Two things appear most evident when we see the destruction currently taking place around us. One, is that the conditions for Gaza's population will only deteriorate further as a result.

Two, while standing here in Gaza today and while fully recognising that UNRWA's specific role is a humanitarian one, I put the question to all actors concerned: How long will it take before it is recognised that only a political solution will allow to move beyond the endless cycles of violence and destruction that repeatedly affect the population of Gaza and beyond. And how much longer before this is seriously, meaningfully and comprehensively addressed? An answer to those questions is urgent: the lives of tens of thousands are today at grave and imminent risk.

I thank you.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION

UNRWA is a United Nations agency established by the General Assembly in 1949 and is mandated to provide assistance and protection to a population of some 5 million registered Palestine refugees. Its mission is to help Palestine refugees in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, West Bank and the Gaza Strip to achieve their full potential in human development, pending a just solution to their plight. UNRWA’s services encompass education, health care, relief and social services, camp infrastructure and improvement, and microfinance.

Financial support to UNRWA has not kept pace with an increased demand for services caused by growing numbers of registered refugees, expanding need, and deepening poverty. As a result, the Agency's General Fund (GF), supporting UNRWA’s core activities and 97 per cent reliant on voluntary contributions, has begun each year with a large projected deficit. Currently the deficit stands at US$ 69 million.

@MrExcalibur100, now be brave yourself and answer this, now you have accused me of not listening and/or answering.

[Fulham Broadway 17,333]

Because this is the truth mate, not all the Palestinians are terrorist but Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

But terminology is flux, and determined by the opposition. Israel initially said hamas was terrorist, and lobbied the US, UK and other western countries to also call them the same. States more often than not are the terror.

The SS called the fighters in the warsaw ghetto terrorist, the british called Ghandi a terrorist,South Africa said Mandela was, the Chinese even the Dali Lama.

Any smaller group against colonialism is labelled this, and its easy when they have to revert to desperate tactics. At the end of the day, they are normal people and like you and me they want the same. House, utilities, enough food in their bellies, to watch chelsea. Thry are not some inherently 'evil' group, but it is never in the dominant powers interest to sit down and talk. You keep the terrorist threat alive, it justifies land grab, and keeping your population on your side, because your military is annhilating the "threat".

[Stingray 9,441]

Hamas uses those kids as human shields:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=802664019758029

I miss so much context here. What is that guy saying? Why is it a mortar and not a rocket? Where and when is this? Is this indeed a human shield? Id even like a translation from someone who speaks arab on here (Choulo, Mohammed?)

If it is i find it repulsive, I really do and I already said I think Hamas is an extremist organization that does not deserve any praise whatsoever- but again i think the same about people who bomb children. Also, who put Hamas there to counter PLO? I refer back to The Gatekeepers where the Shin Bet guy acknowledges they supported them to get in the way of the PLO. Now what?

Also: You keep on saying palestines=Hamas in your arguments. We disagree on this.

this is also interesting on human shields (Gawker):

"The concept of a human shield is simple: In lieu of an actual shield, or other defensive resource, a combatant protects his positions by relying on his enemy's reluctance to kill noncombatants. "You can kill me if you like, but you will also kill this child, which your moral and legal precepts prevent." The attacking party, faced with a choice between killing civilians and tolerating the persistence of a legitimate military target, chooses not to strike. The target is thereby shielded from attack. (Hamas' utter lack of moral and legal precepts with respect to civilian casualties renders such a choice moot for them.)

This arrangement breaks down when the attacking party decides to go ahead and kill noncombatants anyway. The "shield" element fails. Which is why Netanyahu's use of the term "human shield" is imprecise. You don't get to call them shields after you've decided to kill them. The number of those people identified by Israel as combatants is unclear, but as of two days ago CBS News reported that roughly 60% of those killed by IDF operations in Gaza thus far were civilians.They obviously did not make an effective shield. We should stop calling them that.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

I miss so much context here. What is that guy saying? Why is it a mortar and not a rocket? Where and when is this? Is this indeed a human shield? Id even like a translation from someone who speaks arab on here (Choulo, Mohammed?)

If it is i find it repulsive, I really do and I already said I think Hamas is an extremist organization that does not deserve any praise whatsoever- but again i think the same about people who bomb children. Also, who put Hamas there to counter PLO? I refer back to The Gatekeepers where the Shin Bet guy acknowledges they supported them to get in the way of the PLO. Now what?

Also: You keep on saying palestines=Hamas in your arguments. We disagree on this.

this is also interesting on human shields (Gawker):

"The concept of a human shield is simple: In lieu of an actual shield, or other defensive resource, a combatant protects his positions by relying on his enemy's reluctance to kill noncombatants. "You can kill me if you like, but you will also kill this child, which your moral and legal precepts prevent." The attacking party, faced with a choice between killing civilians and tolerating the persistence of a legitimate military target, chooses not to strike. The target is thereby shielded from attack. (Hamas' utter lack of moral and legal precepts with respect to civilian casualties renders such a choice moot for them.)

This arrangement breaks down when the attacking party decides to go ahead and kill noncombatants anyway. The "shield" element fails. Which is why Netanyahu's use of the term "human shield" is imprecise. You don't get to call them shields after you've decided to kill them. The number of those people identified by Israel as combatants is unclear, but as of two days ago CBS News reported that roughly 60% of those killed by IDF operations in Gaza thus far were civilians.They obviously did not make an effective shield. We should stop calling them that.

First of all it is not Hamas. Apparently it is someone Syrian telling Bashar Al Asad that one day these kids will grow up and bring victory to the people. i.e metephorically saying that no matter how long Bashar stays and keeps killing people a younger generation will bring justice to the Syrians one day. He is also blaming other countries ( with the choice of words hinting Arabs) for standing by and watching what is happening to the Syrian people without taking any action. Nothing to do with Hamas. Apparently it is the Syrian resistance.