Politics & Stuff

[bushman 2,043]

why? because terrorists made one attack after another day for day. and after the walls were built, it reduced dramatically?

the world is doing something for it. they are givnig palestine/gaza the most Aid in the WORLD but most of the money is used for getting weapons and building bombs instead of giving it to the poor people in gaza. israel aint responsible for that, arent they?

a lot of muslims actually live quite well in Israel and really peacefully, so there aint a problem with muslims.

The USA is also doing a lot of shit and the world aint doing anything. the world aint doing anything against Syria too (well beside supporting terrorists to bring Assad down, which is kinda dumb). maybe the world thinks ,that israel has a right to live upon this land?

In terms of settlements I already told you, that I dont support them at all and think they should be stopped. but I aint running the politics over there

oh yeah i am the brainwashed one. salute to you and make your quanelle, as it isnt "anti-semitic" as you said. and also kiss the führers pic, as he was your hero I suppose

People in Europe dismantled the walls, live peacefully. Why the Jews need to keep expanding, then ?

Why not live in what they already had stolen ?

[bushman 2,043]

Can you ever even explain yourself? or can you only post some links about jewish people and then vanish \ try to insult the other person PERSONALLY ?

When did I insulted you ?

[Toli 977]

People in Europe dismantled the walls, live peacefully. Why the Jews need to keep expanding, then ?

Why not live in what they already had stolen ?

because the situation in europe is completely different to the situation there lol. its like comparing apples to bananas. after the WW 2 nobody in Europe wanted to have any war again. thats a completely different situation. two world wars had to happen, before people in Europe lived peacefully together. if there would not have been any terroistical attacks, the wall would never have been build.

[yuvala 2,167]

When did I insulted you ?

Not me, but you always try to work your way out of the argument by dropping a link and saying something like "Educate yourself, read & then come back". or - "Stick to the Footy." . "I feel sorry for you." etc.

[bushman 2,043]

because the situation in europe is completely different to the situation there lol. its like comparing apples to bananas. after the WW 2 nobody in Europe wanted to have any war again. thats a completely different situation. two world wars had to happen, before people in Europe lived peacefully together. if there would not have been any terroistical attacks, the wall would never have been build.

You are totally clueless. The wall in Berlin was built to prevent people from running away, to West Germany. Remember it.

Have you not learned anything in school about it ?

[yuvala 2,167]

People in Europe dismantled the walls, live peacefully. Why the Jews need to keep expanding, then ?

Why not live in what they already had stolen ?

Firstly, we do not "expand" anymore.

Secondly, areas such as the West Bank and the Golan Heights were being occupied as a result of the wars. Now, do you expect us to give it back when there is no guarentee (not even close) that the enemy wouldn't attack ?

[bushman 2,043]

Not me, but you always try to work your way out of the argument by dropping a link and saying something like "Educate yourself, read & then come back". or - "Stick to the Footy." . "I feel sorry for you." etc.

Beating around the bush.

[yuvala 2,167]

Beating around the bush.

Yea, that's exactly what you do.

[bushman 2,043]

Firstly, we do not "expand" anymore.

Secondly, areas such as the West Bank and the Golan Heights were being occupied as a result of the wars. Now, do you expect us to give it back when there is no guarentee (not even close) that the enemy wouldn't attack ?

http://rt.com/op-edge/israel-palestine-peace-us-settlements-491/

Once again, you are telling the truth, see above.

[Toli 977]

You are totally clueless. The wall in Berlin was built to prevent people from running away, to West Germany. Remember it.

Have you not learned anything in school about it ?

what the fuck the wall in Berlin has to do with the wall in Israel? and we werent even talking about Germany, you said "Europe". do you think Europe only consists of Germany lol? two completely different situations at all. you have no freaking clue what you are talking about. educate yourself a little bit, and I dont mean by watching some nice conspiracy movies. get some history books and look in to them (not just the cover)

and in terms of peace: do you have ever heard of the terorist group RAF ? no?

[haranr 485]

You're mixing up A LOT of stuff in there and missing even more stuff. First let me clear up a couple of things: The Palestinians were NEVER genuinely offered any land to live peacefully. The Israeli plan has always been and still is to occupy the land from the Laytani River in Lebanon to the Suez canal in Egypt. And even if they were offered some land (which again they were not) why in the world would they accept that? The land is after all theirs. It's like someone came into your house, said it was his now and then offered to give you the living room back and said you're being unreasonable for taking it.

Secondly, the notion that they have the right to occupy the land because they lived there 3000 years ago is just laughable. It's like saying to 300 million Americans to clear out because the Indians want their land, and by that logic you should give half of Europe back to the Mongols, or even east Europe as well as Spain and Portugal back to the Arabs. It's just beyond ridiculous. It doesn't work that way. Lands and nations and cultures evolve, they don't just go and come so suddenly. A lot of the original inhabitants of the old Israel converted to Christianity 2000 years ago and then a lot of those converted to Islam 600 years later. So most of the Palestinians who were being kicked out of their homes are as much the descendants of the original Israeli people as the people who were brought in to replace them except they had actually stayed in their land for all this time and made a home of Palestine.

And even if you ignore all that, are you really saying that the answer to the racism against Jews in Europe is to murder thousands, evacuate millions from their homes and create a racist state that is destined to always be at conflict with it's surroundings? (PS: If you think Hitler invented racism against Jews, you really need to read up on European history). There is no logical explanation to what happened in the early 20th century in Palestine. There is no angle that makes this "fair" or "right". But it happened anyway and it cannot be undone. A solution has to be found to satisfy most of the people and it won't happen soon.

But both you and me have thrown a lot of stuff in the air here, so just to make sure you, and everyone reading this, understand how happened, let me draw you a timeline of the events:

- At the end of the 19th century, a corrupt and aging Ottoman empire ruled the region. Arabs were largely being marginalized and oppressed. The British, French, Russians and Germans (was still called Prussia at the time) had established special privileges in mount Lebanon under the banner of protecting religious minorities in an attempt to weaken the Empire from within. Muslims, Christians and even a Jewish minority lived peacefully in the economic center of the region: Palestine.

-1914: World War 1 started with the Ottoman Empire allying with Germany.

- 1915: In a continuation of their efforts to dismantle the Empire, the French and British made a secret agreement to divide the Arab lands between the two countries. The Zionists, who now had a large and growing influence on the politics in Europe got in on the negotiations. The British eager to please the Zionists who held some of the biggest positions in Europe and could genuinely affect the war added an "International Zone" to the plan which was intended to be the destination of Jewish immigrants from Europe.

- 1916: After failing against the Ottoman Empire in the Balkan, the British realized that they needed the help of the Arabs. So they promised Al Sherif Hussein that the Arabs will be allowed to rule their own land, from the gulf to Syria if they in exchange aim the Allies in the war. The Arabs agreed and started the "Arab revolt" against the empire.

- 1917: The British finally decided to actually go through with a Jewish state in Palestine. After contemplating places like Seychelles and Madagascar, the British decided that having an ally state in the region is in the best future for them in the long run. Note that all this was happening at the start of the oil revolution with oil being discovered in the region. This resulted in the Balfour Declaration.

- 1918: The Arab revolt was a success and the Ottomans were defeated. Al Shariff Hussein started negotiations with all the different regions in the Arab world to create a unified government. A temporary government was created headed by Rida Al Rikabi.

- 1919: World War 1 ended. British and French soldiers landed on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean and declared Lebanon, Syria, Palestine and Iraq (there was no such thing as Jordan back then), the lands they promised to the Arabs, as occupied land.

The US, who believe it or not were adored in the region and actually genuinely stood for democracy and what's right in the world at that time, sent the Kind-Crane commission to the middle east to assess the situation and stand on the people's demands. They concluded that:

"...the American people as a whole should realize that if the American government decided to support the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine, they are committing the American people to the use of force in that area, since only by force can a Jewish state in Palestine be established or maintained." The report noted that there is a principle that the wishes of the local population need to be taken into account and that there is widespread anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and Syria, and the holy nature of the land to Christians and Muslims as well as Jews must preclude solely Jewish dominion. It also noted that Jews at that time comprised only 10% of the population of Palestine.

- 1920: The San Ramon conference stripped the Arabs of every right to rule their own land. The French occupied Lebanon and Syria while British occupied Palestine and Iraq after small battles. In order to shut the KSA up, the state of Jordan was created and given to King Abdullah, one of the royal family of KSA.

After that, as planned, the British started a huge Jewish immigration from Europe to Palestine and gave them protection and privileges over the locals. The British took their time assembling, funding and arming an army of the newly arrived Jewish population.

- 1948: Feeling the Jewish army was strong enough and the international political climate was suiting since the world was still busy with outcomes of World War 2, the British finally oversaw the "independence" of the State of Israel. Thousands of Palestinians killed, millions thrown out of their homes and made to be come refugees in Lebanon, Syrian and Jordan where they still till this day live as refugees in camps that aren't suited to even store cattle!

After that, naturally a lot of Arab states rose to the aid of the Palestinians since they are practically the same nation with the same history. Defeats were inevitable, betrayals happened and resistance rose and fell and then rose up again and the Palestinian cause has been the number one used and abused cause in the Arab world since.

So there's the story of how the State of Israel came to be for you. Obviously there are bound to be a few things that are not clear there because you could write a book about every single sentence; that's how vast and complicated the subject is. But feel free to ask me about anything or look it up for yourself if you want something more reliable.

I am sorry. But you apparently not aware of EVERYTHING and even got some stuff wrong. The Palestinians WERE genuinely offered land to live in peacefully. Not once but twice. The Peel Commission of 1936-1937, formally known as the Palestine Royal Commission, was a British Royal Commission of Inquiry set out to propose changes to the British Mandate for Palestine following the six-month-long Arab general strike in Mandatory Palestine. It was headed by Lord Peel.

On 11 November, 1936, the commission arrived in Palestine to investigate the reasons behind the uprising. It returned to Britain on 18 January 1937. On July 7, 1937, it published a report that, for the first time, recommended partition.^[1]Although initially endorsed by the government, it was condemned by the Arabs. ( The Arabs were given in that a much bigger territory and no Arab had to move since they didn't live in any part that the Jews lived in.)

The land is NOTall theirs. It's NOT like someone came into your house, said it was his now and then offered to give you the living room back and said you're being unreasonable for taking it BECAUSE no Arab lived in the places where most Jew immigrants lived. Maybe it was named as a land of Palestine but they didn't have a country. Palestine was a dead space back then. The Jews built cities out of nothing on the shore while most Arabs lived on the mountain.

You SKIPED a very important subject which is:

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a plan for the future government of Palestine. The Plan was described as a Plan of Partition with Economic Union which, after the termination of theBritish Mandate, would lead to the creation of independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem. On 29 November 1947, the General Assembly adopted a resolution recommending the adoption and implementation of the Plan as Resolution 181(II).^[2]

Part I of the Plan contained provisions dealing with the Termination of the Mandate, Partition and Independence. The Mandate would be terminated as soon as possible and the United Kingdom would withdraw from Palestine no later than the previously announced date of 1 August 1948. The new states would come into existence two months after the withdrawal, but no later than 1 October 1948. The Plan sought to address the conflicting objectives and claims of two competing movements: Arab nationalism and Jewish nationalism, known as Zionism. Part II of the Plan included a detailed description of the proposed boundaries for each state.^[3] The Plan also called for Economic Union between the proposed states, and for the protection of religious and minority rights.

The Plan was accepted by the Jewish Agency, but rejected by the Arab League.^[4]

^{(This was done by THE UN. BY THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY!!)}

Immediately after adoption of the Resolution by the General Assembly, the Civil War broke out.^[5] The partition plan was not implemented.^{[6] (This rejection I can understand since the state was separated equally and they deserved most of it. They should have accepted the British plan in 1937 but they refused. They could have got most of Palestine and have independence but they didn't. Israel were passionate for a country and they got it in 1948, the Arabs hated it and attacked. In result they lost a lot of their land.}

^{And one more thing: You wrote there that the Brits helped the Jews with immagration??? If you did, you got it all wrong. It was very hard for Jews to get into Israel. A lot were taken to prison in Cyprus. They cheated their way in, seeking for a place to live.}

[bushman 2,043]

what the fuck the wall in Berlin has to do with the wall in Israel? and we werent even talking about Germany, you said "Europe". do you think Europe only consists of Germany lol? two completely different situations at all. you have no freaking clue what you are talking about.

Have you not heard of Berlin´s wall before ?

What other walls are in Europe ?

You really have no clue. Let´s call the end here, see you.

[Toli 977]

Have you not heard of Berlin´s wall before ?

What other walls are in Europe ?

You really have no clue. Let´s call the end here, see you.

yeah, lets end this. you just have no knowledge bout this topic or you are a troll which is showcased by this discussion (in terms of poltiics I mean)

I am sorry. But you apparently not aware of EVERYTHING and even got some stuff wrong. The Palestinians WERE genuinely offered land to live in peacefully. Not once but twice. The Peel Commission of 1936-1937, formally known as the Palestine Royal Commission, was a British Royal Commission of Inquiry set out to propose changes to the British Mandate for Palestine following the six-month-long Arab general strike in Mandatory Palestine. It was headed by Lord Peel.

On 11 November, 1936, the commission arrived in Palestine to investigate the reasons behind the uprising. It returned to Britain on 18 January 1937. On July 7, 1937, it published a report that, for the first time, recommended partition.^[1]Although initially endorsed by the government, it was condemned by the Arabs. ( The Arabs were given in that a much bigger territory and no Arab had to move since they didn't live in any part that the Jews lived in.)

The land is NOTall theirs. It's NOT like someone came into your house, said it was his now and then offered to give you the living room back and said you're being unreasonable for taking it BECAUSE no Arab lived in the places where most Jew immigrants lived. Maybe it was named as a land of Palestine but they didn't have a country. Palestine was a dead space back then. The Jews built cities out of nothing on the shore while most Arabs lived on the mountain.

You SKIPED a very important subject which is:

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a plan for the future government of Palestine. The Plan was described as a Plan of Partition with Economic Union which, after the termination of theBritish Mandate, would lead to the creation of independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem. On 29 November 1947, the General Assembly adopted a resolution recommending the adoption and implementation of the Plan as Resolution 181(II).^[2]

Part I of the Plan contained provisions dealing with the Termination of the Mandate, Partition and Independence. The Mandate would be terminated as soon as possible and the United Kingdom would withdraw from Palestine no later than the previously announced date of 1 August 1948. The new states would come into existence two months after the withdrawal, but no later than 1 October 1948. The Plan sought to address the conflicting objectives and claims of two competing movements: Arab nationalism and Jewish nationalism, known as Zionism. Part II of the Plan included a detailed description of the proposed boundaries for each state.^[3] The Plan also called for Economic Union between the proposed states, and for the protection of religious and minority rights.

The Plan was accepted by the Jewish Agency, but rejected by the Arab League.^[4]

^{(This was done by THE UN. BY THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY!!)}

Immediately after adoption of the Resolution by the General Assembly, the Civil War broke out.^[5] The partition plan was not implemented.^{[6] (This rejection I can understand since the state was separated equally and they deserved most of it. They should have accepted the British plan in 1937 but they refused. They could have got most of Palestine and have independence but they didn't. Israel were passionate for a country and they got it in 1948, the Arabs hated it and attacked. In result they lost a lot of their land.}

^{And one more thing: You wrote there that the Brits helped the Jews with immagration??? If you did, you got it all wrong. It was very hard for Jews to get into Israel. A lot were taken to prison in Cyprus. They cheated their way in, seeking for a place to live.}

read this. as you like reading some things without saying anything to them. educate yourself and stop watching conspiracy theories and take a book to your hand.

[bushman 2,043]

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html

some more for you to read.

[bushman 2,043]

yeah, lets end this. you are jut a plain idiot or a troll which is showcased by this discussion (in terms of poltiics I mean)

Idiot is the one who sired you !