Politics & Stuff

[Vesper 30,229]

 

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live

https://streamfare.net/foxnews.html

Rudy is fucking bonkers

[Vesper 30,229]

‘Reach Out to Trump Supporters,’ They Said. I Tried.

I give up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/opinion/trump-supporters.html

73 million Americans voted for Donald Trump. He doubled down on all his worst vices, and he was rewarded for it with 10 million more votes than he received in 2016.

The majority of people of color rejected his cruelty and vulgarity. But along with others who voted for Joe Biden, we are now being lectured by a chorus of voices including Pete Buttigieg and Ian Bremmer, to “reach out” to Trump voters and “empathize” with their pain.

This is the same advice that was given after Trump’s 2016 victory, and for nearly four years, I attempted to take it. Believe me, it’s not worth it.

The Quran asks Muslims to respond to disagreements and arguments “in a better way” and to “repel evil with good.” I tried. “You might not like me, and I might not like you, but we share the same real estate. So, here’s me reaching out across the aisle. American to American,” I said in a video message to Trump supporters published the day after the election.

I really thought it might work. Growing up, I often talked about my Islamic faith with my non-Muslim friends, and I like to think that might have helped to inoculate them from the Islamophobic propaganda and conspiracy theories that later became popular. So I assumed I could win over some Trump supporters whose frustrations and grievances had been manipulated by those intent on seeing people like me as invaders intent on replacing them.

So in late 2016, I told my speaking agency to book me for events in the states where Trump won. I wanted to talk to the people the media calls “real Americans” from the “heartland” — which is of course America’s synonym for white people, Trump’s most fervent base. Over the next four years I gave more than a dozen talks to universities, companies and a variety of faith-based communities.

My standard speech was about how to “build a multicultural coalition of the willing.” My message was that diverse communities, including white Trump supporters, could work together to create a future where all of our children would have an equal shot at the American dream. I assured the audiences that I was not their enemy.

I reminded them that those who are now considered white, such as Irish Catholics, Eastern European Jews, Greeks and Italians, were once the boogeyman. I warned them that supporting white nationalism and Trump, in particular, would be self destructive, an act of self-immolation, that will neither help their families or America become great again.

And I listened. Those in the audience who supported Trump came up to me and assured me they weren’t racist. They often said they’d enjoyed the talk, if not my politics. Still, not one told me they’d wavered in their support for him. Instead, they repeated conspiracy theories and Fox News talking points about “crooked Hillary.” Others made comments like, “You’re a good, moderate Muslim. How come others aren’t like you?”

In Ohio, I spent 90 minutes on a drive to the airport with a retired Trump supporter. We were cordial to each other, we made jokes and we shared stories about our families. But neither of us changed our outlook. “They’ll never take my guns. Ever,” he told me, explaining that his Facebook feed was filled with articles about how Clinton and Democrats would kill the Second Amendment and steal his guns. Although he didn’t like some of Trump’s “tone” and comments, he didn’t believe he was a racist “in his heart.” I’m not a cardiologist, so I wasn’t qualified to challenge that.

In 2017, I was invited by the Aspen Institute — which hosts a festival known for attracting the wealthy and powerful — to discuss racism in America. At a private dinner after the event, I was introduced to a donor who I learned was a Trump supporter. As soon as I said “white privilege,” she began shooting me passive aggressive quips about the virtues of meritocracy and hard work. She recommended I read “Hillbilly Elegy” — the best-selling book that has been criticized by those living in Appalachia as glorified poverty porn promoting simplistic stereotypes about a diverse region.

I’ve even tried and failed to have productive conversations with Muslims who voted for Trump. Some love him for the tax cuts. Others listen only to Fox News, say “both sides” are the same, or believe he hasn’t bombed Muslim countries. (They’re wrong.) Many believe they are the “good immigrants,” as they chase whiteness and run away from Blackness, all the way to the suburbs. I can’t make people realize they have Black and brown skin and will never be accepted as white.

I did my part. What was my reward? Listening to Trump’s base chant, “Send her back!” in reference to Representative Ilhan Omar, a black Muslim woman, who came to America as a refugee. I saw the Republican Party transform the McCloskeys into victims, even though the wealthy St. Louis couple illegally brandished firearms against peaceful BLM protesters. Their bellicosity was rewarded with a prime time slot at the Republican National Convention where they warned about “chaos” in the suburbs being invaded by people of color. Their speech would have fit well in “The Birth of a Nation."

We cannot help people who refuse to help themselves. Trump is an extension of their id, their culture, their values, their greed. He is their defender and savior. He is their blunt instrument. He is their destructive drug of choice.

Don’t waste your time reaching out to Trump voters like I did. Instead, invest your time organizing your community, registering new voters and supporting candidates who reflect progressive values that uplift everyone, not just those who wear MAGA hats, in local and state elections. Work also to protect Americans against lies and conspiracy theories churned out by the right wing media and political ecosystem. One step would be to continue pressuring social media giants like Twitter and Facebook to deplatform hatemongers, such as Steve Bannon, and censor disinformation. It’s not enough, but it’s a start.

Or, you can just watch “The Queen’s Gambit” on Netflix while downing your favorite pint of ice cream and call it a day.

Just as in 2016, I don’t need Trump supporters to be humiliated to feel great again. I want them to have health insurance, decent paying jobs and security for their family. I do not want them to suffer, but I also refuse to spend any more time trying to understand and help the architects of my oppression.

I will move forward along with the majority who want progress, equality and justice for all Americans. If Trump supporters decide they want the same, they can always reach out to me. They know where to find me. Ahead of them.

[Jase 43,479]

16 minutes ago, Vesper said:

live

https://streamfare.net/foxnews.html

Rudy is fucking bonkers

Wish someone would just tell them to shut the fuck up and get the fuck out. It's obvious by now that they have no evidence of fraud in the election, even more so when the lawsuits are getting thrown out of the court, and yet, they continue to be given the platform and airtime to spread their lies.

[Vesper 30,229]

16 minutes ago, Jason said:

Wish someone would just tell them to shut the fuck up and get the fuck out. It's obvious by now that they have no evidence of fraud in the election, even more so when the lawsuits are getting thrown out of the court, and yet, they continue to be given the platform and airtime to spread their lies.

the way I see things playing out are

1. Trump will try EVER single angle, legal and not, right up to Biden being sworn in to either try and steal it or to just TRASH Biden with 100 million plus MAGAts. He will try anything and everything (and will do so for the next 4 years) to delegitimise Biden's win.

2. Trump and his administration will do nothing to aid the transition. They will try and blow up as much shit as possible (including COVID, he will try and kill as many as possible on his way out, and to ratfuck the vaccine rollouts) to leave Biden a flaming set of 1000 dumpsters fires to try and put out.

3. Along the lines of number 2, I think he likely may start at least one military conflict (Iran perhaps) on his way out, and shuts down all security surveillance (or as much as possible) and quite likely does a LIHOP or even MIHOP play on one or more giant terrorist attacks on American soil within weeks or months after he leaves office, then he and all the Rethugs will blame Biden ENTIRELY for it all.

4. The Senate (provided the Dems do not win both GA run-offs) will go, under the 'leadership' of McTurtle, full stop block of EVERYTHING Biden tries to do, including all (or nearly all) Cabinet nominations, all judicial nominations, etc etc etc etc, everything possible, for as long as they control the Senate. I am talking 4, even 8 full years or more, IF the Rethugs control the Senate and a Dem has the POTUS. IF the Rethugs take back the House as well in 2022 (the Democrats have a horrid record for Dem POTUS first midterms, look at 2010 and 1994), they will also immediately begin impeachment charges.

5 Trump will try and destroy the Democrats as a whole for the next 4 years and will run (or at least say he is) again in 2024 (thus keeping the Rethugs under his whip hand of madness) unless he is imprisoned (4 year clock starts for NY AG and SDNY at around noon, January 21, 2021) or dies before then.

Finally, we have the NSA option (posted below), which if Trump goes there, risks kinetic civil war if he declares it and then tries a nationwide crackdown (with him shutting down many things, including possibly trying to shut down the internet, in the US which is a power he will have under the NSA).

The US in for a fucking shitshow no matter what, and a long term one I fear. The bedrock structural, (and indeed the zeitgeist itself) ties and assumptions that bind the union together are being shredded with a million machete and axe blows as we speak.

 

The Alarming Scope of the President's Emergency Powers




https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/

snip

But will they? Unknown to most Americans, a parallel legal regime allows the president to sidestep many of the constraints that normally apply. The moment the president declares a “national emergency”—a decision that is entirely within his discretion—more than 100 special provisions become available to him. While many of these tee up reasonable responses to genuine emergencies, some appear dangerously suited to a leader bent on amassing or retaining power. For instance, the president can, with the flick of his pen, activate laws allowing him to shut down many kinds of electronic communications inside the United States or freeze Americans’ bank accounts. Other powers are available even without a declaration of emergency, including laws that allow the president to deploy troops inside the country to subdue domestic unrest.

This edifice of extraordinary powers has historically rested on the assumption that the president will act in the country’s best interest when using them. With a handful of noteworthy exceptions, this assumption has held up. But what if a president, backed into a corner and facing electoral defeat or impeachment, were to declare an emergency for the sake of holding on to power? In that scenario, our laws and institutions might not save us from a presidential power grab. They might be what takes us down.

1. “A LOADED WEAPON”

The premise underlying emergency powers is simple: The government’s ordinary powers might be insufficient in a crisis, and amending the law to provide greater ones might be too slow and cumbersome. Emergency powers are meant to give the government a temporary boost until the emergency passes or there is time to change the law through normal legislative processes. Unlike the modern constitutions of many other countries, which specify when and how a state of emergency may be declared and which rights may be suspended, the U.S. Constitution itself includes no comprehensive separate regime for emergencies. Those few powers it does contain for dealing with certain urgent threats, it assigns to Congress, not the president. For instance, it lets Congress suspend the writ of habeas corpus—that is, allow government officials to imprison people without judicial review—“when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it” and “provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.”

Nonetheless, some legal scholars believe that the Constitution gives the president inherent emergency powers by making him commander in chief of the armed forces, or by vesting in him a broad, undefined “executive Power.” At key points in American history, presidents have cited inherent constitutional powers when taking drastic actions that were not authorized—or, in some cases, were explicitly prohibited—by Congress. Notorious examples include Franklin D. Roosevelt’s internment of U.S. citizens and residents of Japanese descent during World War II and George W. Bush’s programs of warrantless wiretapping and torture after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Abraham Lincoln conceded that his unilateral suspension of habeas corpus during the Civil War was constitutionally questionable, but defended it as necessary to preserve the Union.

The Supreme Court has often upheld such actions or found ways to avoid reviewing them, at least while the crisis was in progress. Rulings such as Youngstown Sheet & Tube Company v. Sawyer, in which the Court invalidated President Harry Truman’s bid to take over steel mills during the Korean War, have been the exception. And while those exceptions have outlined important limiting principles, the outer boundary of the president’s constitutional authority during emergencies remains poorly defined.

snip

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A Game Designer’s Analysis Of QAnon

Playing with reality

https://medium.com/curiouserinstitute/a-game-designers-analysis-of-qanon-580972548be5

I am a game designer with experience in a very small niche. I create and research games designed to be played in reality. I’ve worked in Alternate Reality Games (ARGs), LARPs, experience fiction, interactive theater, and “serious games”. Stories and games that can start on a computer, and finish in the real world. Fictions designed to feel as real as possible. Games that teach you. Puzzles that come to life all around the players. Games where the deeper you dig, the more you find. Games with rabbit holes that invite you into wonderland and entice you through the looking glass.

When I saw QAnon, I knew exactly what it was and what it was doing. I had seen it before. I had almost built it before. It was gaming’s evil twin. A game that plays people. (cue ominous music)

QAnon has often been compared to ARGs and LARPs and rightly so. It uses many of the same gaming mechanisms and rewards. It has a game-like feel to it that is evident to anyone who has ever played an ARG, online role-play (RP) or LARP before. The similarities are so striking that it has often been referred to as a LARP or ARG. However this beast is very very different from a game.

It is the differences that shed the light on how QAnon works and many of them are hard to see if you’re not involved in game development. QAnon is like the reflection of a game in a mirror, it looks just like one, but it is inverted.

Guided Apophenia

In one of the very first experience fictions (XF) I ever designed, the players had to explore a creepy basement looking for clues. The object they were looking for was barely hidden and the clue was easy. It was Scooby Doo easy. I definitely expected no trouble in this part of the game.

But there was trouble. I didn’t know it then, but its name was APOPHENIA.

Apophenia is : “the tendency to perceive a connection or meaningful pattern between unrelated or random things (such as objects or ideas)”

As the participants started searching for the hidden object, on the dirt floor, were little random scraps of wood.

How could that be a problem!?

It was a problem because three of the pieces made the shape of a perfect arrow pointing right at a blank wall. It was uncanny. It had to be a clue. The investigators stopped and stared at the wall and were determined to figure out what the clue meant and they were not going one step further until they did. The whole game was derailed. Then, it got worse. Since there obviously was no clue there, the group decided the clue they were looking for was IN the wall. The collection of ordinary tools they found conveniently laying around seemed to enforce their conclusion that this was the correct direction. The arrow was pointing to the clue and the tools were how they would get to it. How obvious could it be?

I stared in horror because it all fit so well. It was better and more obvious than the clue I had hidden. I could see it. It was all random chance but I could see the connections that had been made were all completely logical. I had a crude backup plan and I used it quickly before these well-meaning players started tearing apart the basement wall with crowbars looking for clues that did not exist.

These were normal people and their assumptions were normal and logical and completely wrong.

In most ARG-like games apophenia is the plague of designers and players, sometimes leading participants to wander further and further away from the plot and causing designers to scramble to get them back or (better yet) incorporate their ideas. In role-playing games, ARGs, video games, and really anything where the players have agency, apophenia is going to be an issue.

This happens because in real games there are actual solutions to actual puzzles and a real plot created by the designers. It’s easy to get off track because there is a track. A great game runner (often called a puppet-master) can use one or two of these speculations to create an even better game, but only as much as the plot can be adjusted for in real time or planned out before-hand. It can create amazing moments in a game, but it’s not easy. For instance, I wish I could have instantly entombed something into that wall in the basement because it would have worked so well, but I was out of luck!

If you are a designer, and have puzzles, and have a plot, then apophenia is a wild card you always have to be concerned about.

QAnon is a mirror reflection of this dynamic. Here apophenia is the point of everything. There are no scripted plots. There are no puzzles to solve created by game designers. There are no solutions.

QAnon grows on the wild misinterpretation of random data, presented in a suggestive fashion in a milieu designed to help the users come to the intended misunderstanding. Maybe “guided apophenia” is a better phrase. Guided because the puppet masters are directly involved in hinting about the desired conclusions. They have pre-seeded the conclusions. They are constantly getting the player lost by pointing out unrelated random events and creating a meaning for them that fits the propaganda message Q is delivering.

There is no reality here. No actual solution in the real world. Instead, this is a breadcrumb trail AWAY from reality. Away from actual solutions and towards a dangerous psychological rush. It works very well because when you “figure it out yourself” you own it. You experience the thrill of discovery, the excitement of the rabbit hole, the acceptance of a community that loves and respects you. Because you were convinced to “connect the dots yourself” you can see the absolute logic of it. This is the conclusion you arrived at. More about this later.

Everyone on the board agrees with you because it’s highly likely they were the ones that pointed it out to you just for that purpose. (more on this later)

“Hey, what’s that?!”

“It looks like an arrow, pointing at the wall.”

“Why do you think it’s there? Do people just leave arrows pointing to things randomly? What does your common sense say about that?”

“It says there must be something there.”

“Yes. You are right. Maybe you should look at it more closely?”

Every cloud has a shape that can look like something else. Everything that flickers is also a jumble of Morse code. The more information that is out there, the easier it is to allow apophenia to guide us into anything. This is about looking up at the sky and someone pointing out constellations.

The difference is that these manufactured connections lead to the desired conclusions Q’s handlers have created. When players arrive at the “correct” answers they are showered with adoration, respect, and social credit. Like a teenage RP, the “correct” answer is the one that the group respects the most and makes the story the most enjoyable. The idea that bolsters the theory. The correct answer is the one that provides the poster with the most credit.

It’s like a Darwinian fiction lab, where the best stories and the most engaging and satisfying misinterpretations rise to the top and are then elaborated upon for the next version.

Even Q-Anon was only one of several “anons” including FBIanon and CIAanon, etc, etc. Q rose to the top, so it got its own YouTube channels. That tested, so it moved to Reddit. The theories that didn’t work, disappeared while others got up-voted. It’s ingenious. It’s AI with a group-think engine. The group, led by the puppet masters, decide what is the most entertaining and gripping explanation, and that is amplified. It’s a Slenderman board gone amok.

Let’s go back to the arrow on the ground again.

It was not an arrow on the ground, pointing to a clue in a wall. It was just some random bits of wood. They did not discover an arrow. They created it. They saw random pieces of wood and applied their intelligence to it, and this is everything.

It’s easy for people to forget that they are not discovering the story, but creating it from random data.

 

Propaganda and Manipulation

Another major difference between QAnon and an actual game, is that Q is almost pure propaganda. That IS the sole purpose of this. It’s not advertising a product, it’s not for fun, and it’s not an art project. There is no doubt about the political nature of the propaganda either. From ancient tropes about Jews and Democrats eating babies (blood-libel re-booted) to anti-science hysteria, this is all the solid reliable stuff of authoritarianism. This is the internet’s re-purposing of hatred’s oldest hits. The messaging is spot on. The “drops” implanted in an aspic of anti-Semitic, misogynist, and grotesque posts on posting boards that, indeed, have been implicated in many of the things the fake conspiracy is supposed to be guilty of!

Q is also operating in conjunction with many other initiatives as documented by other sources and other developers. The coordination is consistent.

A game helps the people who play build an internal world that best serves them. Q helps players develop an internal world that best serves Q’s initiatives.

Let’s look at how that works.

 

Game Play

Q is a fictional character

I’m afraid this needs to be said. Q is not a real person, but a fictional character.

QAnon uses the oldest trope of all mystery fiction. A mysterious stranger shows up and drops a strange clue leading to long-hidden secrets which his clues, and your detecting power, can reveal.

Let’s think about this for a minute. How many great movies, books, and TV shows would have been forever ruined if the mysterious stranger just laid it all out for the protagonists in the first meeting. “Jim did it. It’s Jim. He’s laundering money for the mob. Check his bank records. Never mind, I have them right here.” The X-Files would be a lot shorter if The Smoking Man had just used his words!

 

It doesn’t work that way. The fictional mysterious stranger already knows, but instead of telling you the answer in the first ten minutes, they give you clues. Hard to follow clues. Ambiguous clues. They say things like “Follow the money. Don’t let them fool you. This goes all the way to the top.”

There is no reason for this in reality, but fictionally, this is what creates the whole plot, the sense of mystery, and everything entertaining that is to follow. This is the white rabbit. This is the breadcrumb trail out of the forest.

It doesn’t work for reality. Real people in the government with important information to disseminate deliver it as fast as possible usually all in one go. They don’t make you solve things. They try to be as specific as possible. They are whistle blowers. Daniel Ellsberg (the Pentagon Papers). Edward Snowden. Chelsea Manning. Etc.

Q is NOT a whistleblower. Q is a “plot device”. Q is fictional and acts exactly like a fictional character acts. This is because the purpose of Q is not to divulge actual information, but to create fiction.

dO tHe ReSeaRcH

The fictional reason Q doesn’t just tell the world what they know is that Q wants you to “do your own research” and come to your own conclusions. How polite…

This is not a real reason. Q does not want you to come to your own conclusions. Q is feeding you conclusions. This is VERY important and here are several reasons why this is included in the verbiage of almost every fictional conspiracy theory ever.

1: Follow The Breadcrumbs

Telling people how and what they should think is the path of most resistance. Ideas that challenge us can do just the opposite of convincing us or enlightening us, but further engrain our old ideas. Even when presented with factual evidence.

“It is well known that people often resist changing their beliefs when directly challenged, especially when these beliefs are central to their identity1,2,3,4,5,6. In some cases, exposure to counterevidence may even increase a person’s confidence that his or her cherished beliefs are true7,8.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39589

Strongly held beliefs are literally a part of us. As such, attacks on core beliefs are treated very much as attacks on us, even as strongly as a physical attack.

“The brain’s primary responsibility is to take care of the body, to protect the body,” Jonas Kaplan, a psychologist at the University of Southern California, tells me. “The psychological self is the brain’s extension of that. When our self feels attacked, our [brain is] going to bring to bear the same defenses that it has for protecting the body.”

Why we react to inconvenient truths as if they were personal insults.
By Brian Resnick

If the ideas are generated by us, however, then these are the ideas we defend. If we “create” the ideas in our own minds, they become fused much more intently into our personality. They’re OURS. There is no friction. Guiding people to arrive at YOUR conclusions is a perfect way to get people to accept a new and conflicting ideology.

Getting them to arrive at the destination can be a little tricky. You have to guide them there one little step at a time.

In QAnon parlance, these steps, or trail markers leading you into the forest, are called breadcrumbs. Little morsels Q disperses that are easy to digest that lead the players towards wherever Q is guiding them. One little bite at a time.

But the breadcrumbs are not facts, they are questions. Puzzles and clues for the “investigators” to uncover.

This leads us to another reason Q would really like you to do your own research.

2: The Eureka Effect

Puzzle-solving is a special way to learn and it encodes information into the brain in a different way than other learning. Puzzles and knowledge gained through our own efforts are incredibly rewarding and also come with a hit of dopamine, the brain’s pleasure drug, as a reward.

As far back as 1978, it has been known that having an “Aha!” moment increases retention of memories.

Recently, a report published in 2018 in the journal Human Brain Mapping found that Aha! moments also activate the brain’s reward systems.

Aha!-moments are characterized by hyperactivation in (a) nucleus accumbens, which has been shown to be involved in the feeling of relief, ease, and joy, (b) VTA, which is related to the encoding of certainty about a decision, (c) the posterior hippocampus, responsible for memory reorganization following an insight, and (d) aSTS/STG associated coarse semantic coding.

[…]

As those structures are part of a dopaminergic pathway, associated with reinforcement, we suggest the Aha!-Moment as a special form of fast retrieval, combination, and encoding process.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/hbm.24073

Basically, that “A Ha!” moment when puzzle solving (even when incorrect) is extremely pleasurable and also may help encode what we learn in a new way.

It also helps reinforce the desire to seek out and solve new puzzles.

In other words, solving puzzles is extremely rewarding from a biochemical standpoint and the thoughts we gain from them are special to us.

3. Lamestream Media

Another extremely important “reason” for propagandists to get people to “do the research” is to instill a natural distrust for society and the competency of others.

There is no need for QAnons to do the research because the fact is, the research has already been done and been done by thousands of trained professionals. The FBI, CIA, and countless non-profits dedicated to solving the issues of trafficking and abuse have already been working on these issues for decades. If anons really wanted to do the research they should research getting a license in social work, psychology, criminal justice, or really anything that might actually be considered research.

Do your own research means. “Don’t trust other people. Don’t trust institutions. Listen to me.”

The conspiracy plot always has the same logic. The reason no one knows about the conspiracy is because of the conspiracy. Not because it doesn’t exist.

Then initiates are given the tools to arrive at “their own conclusions” which are in every way more compelling, interesting, and solve more problems than traditional conclusions. Because they are wrong and fictional.

4: Community

Solving puzzles together is a great way to form community and to join community. ARGs are famous for this. Everyone has something to focus on, a shared interest, and something to do. The puzzles are often just a way of getting together. If Q drops some clues, then you have something to do and you have people to do it with. It’s bonding. The same reason puzzles are used in corporate team building exercises and party games.

Especially if those people are there with the intent to make you feel and think something specific. To befriend you and make you feel special. Working together on something is a great way for that to happen.

Gameplay Example:

Several Q drops insinuate that the ruling class of occultists have the mandate to tell each other who they are through symbolism. A requirement even.

This is a way of creating a rich set of random data that can be linked together by group-think to support the main theory. It’s simple, compelling, and there is plenty of precedent to this idea too. Everyone “knows” that there are symbols associated with magic, occult, and closed societies. Like the mason compass and the pentagram. One of the groups that love to use symbols to alert others they are a member is actually QAnon so the practice is familiar. #wwg1wga

Here are a couple of “drops” in a similar vein.

Their need for symbolism will be their downfall.
Follow the Owl & Y head around the world.
Identify and list.
They don’t hide it.
They don’t fear you.
You are sheep to them.
You are feeders.
Godfather III.

Q

Here is another example.

Identify symbolism (Owl / Y).
Which performers/celebs supported HRC during the election?
Who performed during her rallies?
What jewelry and/or tattoos present?
What other events do they attend together?
What does HRC represent to them?
What celebrities have owl / Y head symbols?
What politicians have owl / Y head symbols?
What powerful people have owl / Y head symbols?
What powerful groups have owl / Y head symbols?
Why are they worn/shown openly?
Their need for symbolism will be their downfall.

Each breadcrumb amounts to a creative writing prompt. A conspiracy connect the dots.

It gives players a doable task they can all collaborate on.

Is this real? Are Hollywood celebrities and political figures really making occult signs like owls and yacks? “Investigators” head out to Google to find out. Here is what they come back with.

QAnon went digging and found hundreds of images. Maybe you didn’t see it before, but now you can’t STOP seeing it.

This isn’t the first or the last symbolism meme either. Some QAnon, some pre-dating Q. They certainly aren’t hard to find once you start “researching”.

Here is the “666 symbol”

Here is the Illuminati “one eye” “eye of providence” symbol, like the one on the pyramid.

Now, like in traditional ARGs, participants get to look at the world a little differently. They can go on the boards, watch the videos, ask questions. They can submit their own “research” and get kudos, encouraging comments, and make friends. They don’t have to believe it all, but now when they see a new music video, maybe they begin to notice just how many weird things are in them? Could it be that they aren’t just filler, but have a real meaning?

 

From Fiction to Reality

Already, the game mechanics have begun to turn on the participant.

The participant is having fun looking around and “solving” riddles reinforced by dopamine rushes and the feeling of being involved in something that no one else knows. They are also now part of a growing, active, and friendly community. Everything they see and hear creates further doubt about people and things they already doubt. Every new theory is easy to understand, compelling, and arrived at through their own ability to reason. Now to doubt certain ideas is to doubt themselves, their ability to see the truth, their community, and maybe the world around them. Quickly, the game is creating an alternate POV that is immensely psychologically satisfying and seems to be supported on all sides as the truth. Celebrities, senators, and even the President are all supportive.

The implications in the Q prompts are one-sided and designed to cast doubt, not offer proof. Once doubt is cast, it is incredibly hard to dispel.

It’s very hard to prove something doesn’t exist. You can’t prove there are no aliens for example. Aliens scientifically could exist so you will never be able to prove that they don’t. You can’t prove someone isn’t in a cult either. No matter what they say. Doubt can not be dispelled easily. It can be grown easily, however.

Every creepy picture of a celebrity making devil horns or dressed up in a bloody gown.

Imagine the participants looking through hundreds of images of the people they distrust acting completely like they are in a cult.

Rock stars are always trying to shock people. They throw the hand-horns all the time. Their videos are riddled with the skulls of steers and weird tattoos and conscious occult references.

“I don’t know if I believe it, but it IS weird, right? It does kind of look like they are in a cult. I don’t wear a goat’s head! Why would anyone do that? Could some of them be rich freaks? I’ve heard so much about the Rothschilds…”

Then the idea gets force-multiplied in thousands of sites, YouTube videos, ads, comments, Instagram influencers, tweets, etc. It’s everywhere, and every place you go (in your bubble), keeps telling you it is true. Even places you go outside your bubble tell you it’s true (because that’s how ads work).

People might dig up all the articles about Beyoncé being the head of the Illuminati along with Jay-Z flashing the Illuminati sign. And then you learn that Jay-Z actually IS interested in the Illuminati and has been flashing the sign for six years.

I mean, it can’t be true, can it?

And then there are the sad facts. There are abusers in Hollywood. Rich, weird, Hollywood Jews too. Harvey Weinstein. Epstein. Why not the Rothschilds? Can you get the image out of your head of that creepy old rich guy and his wife wearing a devil head?

The doubt grows every day.

Until it isn’t doubt.

Until you’re “pretty sure”.

Of course, Q knows these images of the Rothschilds are out there and knows they are out of context (a surrealist costume ball). Same with the abundance of occult imagery in modern music videos. They are leading you to unrelated information that fits their narrative. Fits the story.

What about these images?

Does QAnon investigate Trump’s involvement with Epstein? With Satan?

Maybe, but whatever needs to be explained is just another Q drop away. “Why are doctors always around the sick? Why are police always around criminals? Who is the most effective type of police? How best to catch a criminal? What are spies? Do all law enforcement agencies tell the criminals who they are? How does the MSM benefit from portraying Trump in this way?”

Everything about Q seems interesting, and even if Q is wrong about some things, it’s closer to the way people actually feel.

The marketing and PR are intense. Influencers are out there posting every day. People they like, like Q. Q makes sure of this. This isn’t happening on the dark corners of the internet, but on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. People don’t have to believe everything, they just have to doubt a little.

This is a rabbit hole with barbs that only go one way.

Laughing at them or insulting them, just drives them to familiar boards where they get more assurance and praise. It entrenches them.

 

Everything Is QAnon

Now that people are indoctrinated into QAnon, they can continue the game for themselves with very few cues. The game is everywhere.

All a handler has to do is drop a conspiracy theory on the internet, and within weeks, Q is running with it. Rabbit holes are everywhere.

This article shows the hashtag maps of Q’s complete overtaking of the Wayfair conspiracy theory. Everything is in play now. Every weird coincidence is a puzzle to be solved. There is now a community to multiply and boost every signal all while attracting new members.

https://www.logically.ai/articles/how-the-wayfair-conspiracy-got-absorbed-by-qanon

QAnon is anxious to get into everything! It’s a gathering place. A local pub for conspiracy theories. It’s also a great way to indoctrinate people or “red pill” them.

QAnon is now a force-multiplier. An army desperate for “puzzles” to solve with a clear focus and a broad addiction to the conspiracy community. Anti-Covid, Anti-Vaccine, 5G, and who knows what else?

Right now QAnon is hijacking the #savethechildren hashtag for themselves. People go out to save the children and maybe ask innocently about why some of the signs say #thestormiscoming or #wwg1wag

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/9/25/21453036/save-the-children-qanon-human-trafficking-satantic-panic

It is increasingly hard to separate Q from those worried about postal voter fraud or Bill Gates. It’s just latching itself onto anything.

Indoctrinating

Indoctrination is obviously not a game mechanic.

There is “going viral”, and there is active training and recruitment. Advertising’s goal is to be so entertaining, useful, or uplifting that people pass on the information to their friends. Games seek to be so engaging that people want to play and they want to play with their friends.

To some extent that is happening, there is a viral quality to Q, but there is also something else in addition that is highly troubling. Q is teaching QAnons how to proselytize.

Q gives instructions that both points to the QAnon theories, but also hides from others that it is QAnon until they have been indoctrinated. This is the replication of rabbit holes and breadcrumbs.

On the posting boards where QAnon grows are lists of memes and instructions for how and where to post them as well as invitations to create and collect them. There are lists of technical resources about how to track individuals through their social media footprint, hack information to reveal poster’s locations, and use a wide assortment of tools designed to gather “information”.

Q also gives specific instructions about how to “red pill” friends and family. How to get people to ask them questions. How to distribute rabbit holes, get people to ask them questions, start bread crumb trails, and spread Q ideas without linking directly to Q.

This is very “cult”. It’s a very clear danger sign.

There have been many good articles on this phenomenon including how Q spreads.

Instagram

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/08/how-instagram-aesthetics-repackage-qanon/615364/

Christians

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2020/september-web-only/qanon-evangelicals-global-conspiracy-theory.html

Small Towns

https://theintercept.com/2020/09/23/qanon-conspiracy-theory-colorado/

Not Organic

“It’s probably some guy who posted a few things on 4Chan and it just took off!” or “This thing came out of nowhere! It’s gone viral!” People think QAnon is viral and organic because that is the intent of QAnon. It’s part of its own story and propaganda.

As a producer of ARGs, this stuff is hard to produce and maintain and keep interesting. QAnon works, again, in an opposite manner from a regular ARG.

Normally, if an indie ARG or interactive story goes unexpectedly viral, the creators begin to struggle. They have less money to spend on more people, more interactions, and a story that gets consumed faster and faster. They have no more time/money/staff and eventually, they have to wrap it up. Even commercial ad-based ARGs are exhausting to run. It’s a sprint from the first post and no matter how short, it feels like a marathon. (Ok, mine did, I’m sure there are better producers out there)

This thing goes the reverse way. The more people join it, the more money goes into it. The more effort, the more PR, and the more content.

The more people try to shut it down (Google, FB, Reddit, Instagram, service providers, TikTok, etc.) the more the Q runners double down, getting ever bigger endorsements from the top politicians in the world.

There is money here and it’s not grassroots. It’s not a huge amount of money, but this is a system from which Facebook said had removed

“ 790 groups, 100 Pages and 1,500 ads with links to QAnon. It’s also blocked over 300 hashtags across Facebook and Instagram and restricted 1,950 groups and 440 pages on Facebook and over 10,000 accounts on Instagram.”

- The Verge

The same week Facebook did this, President Trump got on camera during a press release and endorsed them. He called them a growing, popular movement, and said he appreciated them. When asked if he believed the basic premise that he was “secretly saving the world from this satanic cult of pedophiles and cannibals” he replied with “is that supposed to be a bad thing? If I can help save the world from problems, I’m willing to do it, I’m willing to put myself out there. And we are actually, we are saving the world from a radical left philosophy that will destroy this country.”

This is not a loner on the internet that started dropping a few posts and suddenly went viral. I’ve met those people. I’ve been on those projects. It doesn’t happen like this.

This is a media campaign. This is a coordinated propaganda campaign.

800 groups? An ARG with an endorsement from the President? An ARG with physical demonstrations organized for multiple countries and over 200 physical locations. These are not “organic”.

There is even a full-length movie out, paid for “out of pocket” that is being distributed FOR FREE to spread the word. Hundreds of publications for sale on Amazon. This is a lot of work. This isn’t how games work. This isn’t how anything but media/advertising/propaganda campaigns work.

QAnon needs this kind of media saturation BECAUSE it is not a natural movement. People need to be surrounded by it on all sides. It needs to seem popular even when it absolutely isn’t. It needs to seem like everyone is talking about it. They need to see it on YouTube, TikTok, in the papers, in the news, and hear it from their friends. This is all part of making it feel “real”.

 

This Is Not A Game (TINAG)

TINAG is an acronym for This Is Not A Game, and it is often associated with the method of running games like ARGs. These games have a theater-like quality to them which can be distracting if disturbed. It’s similar to the way that if an actor is missing a prop, they’ll just try to roll with it, because stopping the play and going out to get a new fake sword will ruin the immersion. You’re supposed to be in the world of the play, not the real world. You could just as easily say the same for most fictions.

But everyone who plays these games, like everyone who watches a movie or uses VR, knows it’s not real even if they are very immersed in it.

That is the fun. Yes, games like AI (the Beast) and ilovebees ARGs pretended to be “real” but they were also games set in the future and could not be mistaken for reality. Knowing what is “in-game” is a huge priority of game designers and players alike no matter how life-like the game. At least, if people don’t know if a clue is in a game or not, the result has to be harmless.

People call the actual police if they think there is an actual crime, so your players have to know they are playing a game, or else.

Of course, again, this is the opposite of the stated purpose of Qanon. TINAG is literal.

QAnon seeks to uncover the real story. That’s why people are calling the police, their state reps, and trafficking hotlines. Solving a tough puzzle in a game is a huge rush, but in Q it’s even more-so because IT’S REAL. They’re writing about you in every magazine. You’re on the news. Participants haven’t solved a game, they’ve solved reality! But how does the sense that the false connections the Q participants are making are REAL develop?

It’s not that strange actually. In fact, the difference between apophenia and science is just the scientific process and the reliance on proof. People make the connection before they know for a fact if it’s real or not. Maybe it is apophenia, maybe not. It’s a hypothesis. A theory. THEN YOU TEST IT. The facts determine the outcome and then, whether it feels good or not, you accept them. Even scientists may not want to let go of a good theory that just isn’t panning out. The feeling of correctness is over-powering. This is why people need to have peer-reviews. Colleagues need to be able to replicate results. Solutions need to be tested and the facts harnessed.

In Q, the proof is more apophenia! Another arrow in the dirt in an endless cycle back to the central propaganda. It has to because there is no truth. The answer is whatever feels the best, makes the most sense, and helps the story. Any truth is just fuel for the propaganda and reinforces the conclusions of the apophenia and central narrative.

It feels like it’s really happening. It especially seems so when cheered on by a curated fake “community” clapping you on the back and telling you you are a hero for every radical leap into the void you make. If you begin to lose faith or interest, you can flip on Fox News and have Senators, public figures, and even the President of the United States cheering you on by name in your efforts to produce a credible and intriguing narrative from the random bits of data all around you. Just like the narrative said would happen.

In fact, “alternate reality” is highly fitting here.

Qanon is an attempt to create a new reality that can be acted on, lived in “as-if”, and manipulated, but does not match actual reality. Because if they can do that, then they can do anything they want and blame the outcomes on any fictional plot point they choose. One tentacle of a many-pronged attack of boogaloo bros, Qanons, Anti-maskers, Fake News, Alex Jones, etc. Scattershot programs all with the same message and the same end-game. To doubt reality. To create the fog of war without the war. To create a collectively shared reality that they directly control.

How easy is it to live in a fantasy world?

Pretty easy actually. Love, civilization, honor, good/evil, religion, money, etc. What is real and what is a fiction that we have created and agreed to live as if they existed? Maybe you don’t believe your religion is a fiction, but what about everyone else’s? Are they all equally real?

Being able to share and believe in our fictions, acting on them as if they are real, may even be one of our evolutionary advantages.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/what-makes-humans-different-fiction-and-cooperation-180953986/

Once you accept that the tenets of QAnon are real, or mostly real, it is just as likely to become a religion, a cult, a political movement, or anything else. But definitely not a game!

Sound far fetched?

I’m not sure how much difference there already is between what believers in Q feel now and what people who belong to a religion feel. Already the gist of the mildly religious is present.

“I’m a QAnon/Catholic/Jew and I like the community and I like the activities, but I’m not sure I really believe EVERYTHING is literal. I agree with the basic ideas though.”

But honestly, it could be apophenia I’m experiencing.

Let’s end this with the words of Q themselves on how to indoctrinate new members.

How many people are unaware of the ‘truth’ due to the stranglehold?

How must people be made aware of an alternate reality?

What are crumbs (think H-wood/DC)

Define ‘lead-in’ (think play)?

What has been occurring recently?

The stage must be set.

Crumbs are easy to swallow.

[…]

Q

[Fernando 6,585]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

the way I see things playing out are

1. Trump will try EVER single angle, legal and not, right up to Biden being sworn in to either try and steal it or to just TRASH Biden with 100 million plus MAGAts. He will try anything and everything (and will do so for the next 4 years) to delegitimise Biden's win.
 

I just want to comment on this. 

It sounds just like what the democrats tried to do this whole 4 years under Trump.

And they where allowed to do that as in their right to contest everything. 

Everyone has this right, now it's Trump turn with all his millions......

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

18 hours ago, Fernando said:

I just want to comment on this. 

It sounds just like what the democrats tried to do this whole 4 years under Trump.

And they where allowed to do that as in their right to contest everything. 

Everyone has this right, now it's Trump turn with all his millions......

 

What exactly have the democrats tried that was so egregious?

Can only think of the the impeachment process, which was at most controversial, not a direct attack on the election.

For many, Trump's call to Ukraine (as stated) was NOT OK. I heard him saying live that he'd welcome help from other countries to win the election - that is NOT OK! I do believe he was sincere though, which makes the Ukraine call look a lot worse (why would he not do the same with Ukraine?).

Romney also thought none of it was OK. Other GOP senators were on the fence until the last minute. The only controversial part was whether he should be impeached for that.

Trump is raking money to pay his many debts. He is NOT using his own money, but the money being received in donations and packs. His debt has been wildly reported everywhere. He's also expecting legal fees from NY state lawsuits, which he has no control over (not even a pardon would stop it). Not even going into Barr and the DOJ, but there would be a lot to talk about there.

If he quits and gets a pardon from Pence, would that raise a red flag for you? Nixon style! Flynn, Stone, Manafort, Cohen... pardons and folks in jail. I predict that you will see a lot more going to jail and/or getting pardons until this is over. None of that a red flag? How so?

Is the president disputing the election results in states where he won?! If elections do not work, what the fuck is Mitch doing there still? His election was obviously rigged too. 

Reminder that his legal actions are getting tossed/dropped like flies and he is now turning into different ways to subvert the system:
"Trump tries to subvert the election, inviting Michigan G.O.P. lawmakers to the White House." source, everywhere.

The only rigged thing about the US election system is the electoral college. Who was the last GOP president who won the popular vote again (as in actually getting more votes)?

[robsblubot 3,595]

interesting read, https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-11-15/donald-trump-election-delusions-autocrats
 

Op-Ed: What the bunker mentality really means

In the last week, a mash-up of a scene from “Downfall,” the movie about Hitler’s last days, has been circulating on social media. The scene is the one where Hitler bursts into an operatic rage when his officers tell him of a failed attempt to drive the Russians from Berlin. In the mash-up, Hitler is getting a different kind of bad news: All the votes are going to be counted and he will lose the election.

Donald Trump isn’t a dictator. He won office in a free and fair election and will leave it through the same democratic process. But there is a serious point underneath the mash-up comedy. Refusal to accept unpleasant reality is the hallmark of dictators, especially if disaster or defeat is looming. From his bunker, Hitler ordered imaginary armies to fight fantastical battles. Somehow, he thought, victory could be snatched from certain defeat.

....

[Vesper 30,229]

9 hours ago, Fernando said:

I just want to comment on this. 

It sounds just like what the democrats tried to do this whole 4 years under Trump.

And they where allowed to do that as in their right to contest everything. 

Everyone has this right, now it's Trump turn with all his millions......

 

Trump broke the law, and if not for raw partisanship in the Senate, woukd have been convicted and removed from office. Biden has not, and the Senate if the Rethugs maintain control, will, for the FIRST time in American history,  go full block on almsot everything he does in his lawful capacity as POTUS, no matter how petty that block may be.

You will never again see a Democratic President have a SCOTUS (and probably not even a lower federal court nomination) nomination approved by a Rethug controlled Senate. They have went full stop partisan, and will help the US along, down the poisoned path to eventual civil war.

The Republicans literally, at a multiplicity of levels, want to hurt, maim, bankrupt,  imprison, starve, and yes, kill Democrats. 50 plus years of scientific RW programming overlayed with 400 years of brutal systemic racism and white supremacist zeitgeist. 

A MAGAt Trump supporter would take an axe and cleave off their own little finger IF you promised them that as soon as their finger was chopped off, you will go and saw off a black woman's entire ARM.

A prison employee in Florida who voted for President Trump argued that Trump is to blame for the current government shutdown. 

"I voted for him, and he's the one who's doing this," Crystal Minton told The New York Times in an article published Monday. "I thought he was going to do good things. He's not hurting the people he needs to be hurting."

[manpe 10,861]

On 15/11/2020 at 8:31 AM, Vesper said:

From a nurse in South Dakota:

I have a night off from the hospital. As I’m on my couch with my dog I can’t help but think of the Covid patients the last few days.

 

The ones that stick out are those who still don’t believe the virus is real. The ones who scream at you for a magic medicine and that Joe Biden is Going to ruin the USA.

 

All while gasping for breath on 100% Vapotherm. They tell you there must be another reason they are sick. They call you names and ask why you have to wear all that “stuff” because they don’t have COViD because it’s not real. Yes. This really happens.

 

And I can’t stop thinking about it. These people really think this isn’t going to happen to them. And then they stop yelling at you when they get intubated. It’s like a fucking horror movie that never ends. There’s no credits that roll. You just go back and do it all over again.

Which is what I will do for the next three nights. But tonight. It’s me and Cliff and Oreo ice cream. And how ironic I have on my “home” Hoodie. The South Dakota I love seems far away right now.

 

 

 

she is real, not a fake rando at all btw

10 Questions with Jodi Doering, RN – South Dakota AHA Mission: Lifeline Director

http://ems12lead.com/2011/08/05/10-questions-with-jodi-doering-south-dakota-aha-mission-lifeline-director/

 

I'm sorry to say this, but people like this should die. Nurses like her should focus all their resources and attention to people who deserve to be saved. Yes, I acknowledge that those poor Trumpard COVID deniers are victims of psychological warfare, but when they are like this even in the face of death, they are beyond repair and should be allowed to slowly drift out of their misery. A mercy kill so to speak, even if they themselves wouldn't see it that way, but ultimately it would be better for them and the USA. So my proposal would be that instead of science-based western medicine, just leave them to the hands of the all-powerful God that they surely believe in.

[Vesper 30,229]

 

[Vesper 30,229]

Boris Johnson 'asked for Patel report to be palatable', source claims

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55026137

Boris Johnson is facing questions about whether he tried to tone down an independent report which said Home Secretary Priti Patel broke the ministerial code by bullying staff.

Number 10 has insisted Sir Alex Allan's conclusions were "entirely his own".

But a Whitehall source told the BBC that Sir Alex had resisted pressure to make the findings more "palatable".

And Sir David Normington, a former Home Office chief, said Ms Patel's behaviour was "completely unacceptable".

He said the report had found she was a bully, adding: "You shouldn't have bullies in government".

Ms Patel apologised on Friday, saying: "Any upset I have caused was completely unintentional."

Sir Alex resigned as independent advisor on ministerial standards after Mr Johnson threw his support behind the home secretary, effectively disregarding Sir Alex's findings.

His report found Ms Patel's conduct had fallen below the standards expected of government ministers and cited examples of the home secretary "shouting and swearing" at civil servants.

But Mr Johnson - who has the final say - kept Ms Patel in her job, saying he "does not believe that Priti Patel is a bully".

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Sir David Normington - former permanent secretary at the Home Office, said there had been "no acknowledgement" by either Ms Patel or the prime minister that "she was found to have bullied staff, possibly in three departments - not just in the home office".

"The prime minister has simply put aside the findings of a report... that she is a bully. You shouldn't have bullies in government."

"The system depends on the prime minister standing up for standards in public life and taking action when a minister breaches those standards," he added.

 

[Vesper 30,229]

Officials ‘blocked access to witness’ in Priti Patel inquiry

Sir Alex Allan made repeated attempts to interview former top Home Office civil servant Sir Philip Rutnam, but was stymied

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/21/officials-blocked-access-to-witness-in-priti-patel-inquiry

Boris Johnson’s former adviser on ministerial standards was prevented from interviewing a key witness for his bullying inquiry into Priti Patel’s behaviour.

Legal and Whitehall sources have revealed that Sir Alex Allan sought to interview the former top Home Office civil servant Sir Philip Rutnam about his dealings with Patel, but was blocked by government officials.

The inquiry was launched by the prime minister following the resignation of Rutnam over Patel’s alleged behaviour. Rutman is suing the government for constructive dismissal.

Sources say Allan was informed he could not interview Rutnam because of the legal action. Allan, however, felt that his inquiry was being denied potentially crucial evidence.

[Vesper 30,229]

The Tories' 'chumocracy' over Covid contracts is destroying public trust

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/21/tories-covid-contracts-public-trust-government

Under the cover of an emergency, the government awarded £18bn in coronavirus-related contracts during the first six months of the pandemic, most with no competitive tendering processes. Meanwhile contracts totalling £1.5bn have gone to companies with connections to the Conservative party. Call it a “chumocracy” or straightforward incompetence: it’s clear there’s been a woeful lack of transparency when it comes to how taxpayers’ money is spent.

The more information we have about these contracts, the more complicated it becomes to piece them all together. As the junior health minister Lord Bethell recently told the House of Lords, the government relied on “informal arrangements” to fulfil urgent needs for PPE. One such informal arrangement was a phone call in April between Lord Bethell and Meller Designs, a company owned by a prominent Conservative party donor who has given more than £63,000 to the party. The company, which usually sells home and fashion accessories to retailers such as Marks & Spencer, was later awarded PPE contracts worth £163m.

Benji303 & Lee S. - Fuck The Tories (Sterling Moss & Mark EG Fuck The 303 Remix)

 

[Vesper 30,229]

After Trump loses the election, evangelicals go nuts!

Pastors and prophets incorrectly prophesied Trump would win the election and get a second term. When the Trump prophecies failed, the evangelicals (some of whom sit on Trump's evangelical advisory committee, like Paula White and Kenneth Copeland) had an absolute ballistic meltdown going into denial. When prophecy fails, evangelicals go ballistic! Here is a compilation of some of the best evangelical freak-outs. Enjoy!

 

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

9 hours ago, Vesper said:

After Trump loses the election, evangelicals go nuts!

Pastors and prophets incorrectly prophesied Trump would win the election and get a second term. When the Trump prophecies failed, the evangelicals (some of whom sit on Trump's evangelical advisory committee, like Paula White and Kenneth Copeland) had an absolute ballistic meltdown going into denial. When prophecy fails, evangelicals go ballistic! Here is a compilation of some of the best evangelical freak-outs. Enjoy!

 

 

Lots of crazy people 

 

[11Drogba 2,000]

At this point, does anybody really believe Trump wouldn't sell national secrets?

[Fernando 6,585]

11 hours ago, Vesper said:

After Trump loses the election, evangelicals go nuts!

Pastors and prophets incorrectly prophesied Trump would win the election and get a second term. When the Trump prophecies failed, the evangelicals (some of whom sit on Trump's evangelical advisory committee, like Paula White and Kenneth Copeland) had an absolute ballistic meltdown going into denial. When prophecy fails, evangelicals go ballistic! Here is a compilation of some of the best evangelical freak-outs. Enjoy!

 

 

And that's why those guys should be discredited. When God gives a prophesy it comes to pass 100 percent. 

These guys, God never spoke to them, they just speak out of their own mind. 

[Vesper 30,229]

13 hours ago, Fernando said:

And that's why those guys should be discredited. When God gives a prophesy it comes to pass 100 percent. 

These guys, God never spoke to them, they just speak out of their own mind. 

 God and Evil - Epicurus

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Thence whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?