Politics & Stuff

[Fulham Broadway 17,305]

Not 'protests' because by our constitution Israel is an enemy; more like support rallies. I went to one, but there aren't many happening because car bombs are still a threat, so the gouvernment is wary of any crowded demonstrations.

There have been a few gestures which probably psychelogically help more. The parliament had a special session in support of Gaza and Am Musil in Iraq, and the names if all the martyrs were hung on the iconic Rawshe rock in Beirut.

But the gesture that really moved me, was all the news stations of all the political parties in Lebanon, the parties that have been fighting since forever, came together and broadcasted a unified news bulliten in support of Gaza. If you know the depth of the political disagreements in Lebanon, you'd know how big a step that is.

Social media and on forums is where I let off steam. I think exposing the truth to the whole world, especially people in the west, can make a difference. Tjanks to social media, this has been one of the best covered attack on Gaza I have witnessed, and this has helped sway the opinions of a lot of people, especially in Europe.

Good that lebanon is united about it. Just watched a film on al jazeera, and before the terrified gaza residents can blame Israel many are saying 'where are our arab brothers ?'

Its a tragic situation, and you know israel before they stop will commit an even bigger atrocity, as they always do.

Its not a normal situation, however the media like to portray it as two equal sides, as we know. In a normal conflict situation, the bottom line in terms of resolution is talk. Jaw, jaw, not war war. However this is the last thing Israel wants, they want to get rid of Gaza and have it like they have all the other occupied land, so they will constantly provoke and kill. Unfortunately there are no organisations that can help that much - we learned during my politics degree how US controlled the UN is- but perhaps the best hope is from the Arab league. They need to make concerted efforts, not to israel as this is pissing in the wind, but to the US and the west. History would need to be dug up, and truths presented about the artificial borders set up by the west and colonialism. A united arab diplomatic front, composed of muslim, christian, jewish representatives is to my mind the best hope of restraining israel, and a more important goal than a two state solution. Thoughts ?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Sure, Arab Muslim countries are the candidates, but you have to look at their current economical status and military power. The strongest military countries are Egypt and Algeria. Before it was those two plus Syria and Iraq. Still they weren't that strong, but sufficient enough to cause damage if united with Egypt and Algeria. 25% of the Arab population are Egyptian. Iraq is lost so is Syria. So out of the Arab countries two are still capable only. Now Let us look at Iran like you suggested. Iran has one of the strongest military power in the region. Economically devastated. They are capable of defensive operations but not an offensive one. Even of they do have the capability to attack. The U.S have been targeting Iran since they removed the Shah of Iran. Just before the U.S turned its back on Iraq, it aided them to enter a long 8 year war with Iran in 1980. It was a chemical warfare btw, where the U.S aided the aggressors at the time (Iraq). That failed and they have been waiting since to figure a way to dismantle Iran. That was actually one of the main reasons Iran seeked nuclear power because it is feeling constant threat. Now Iran is being portrayed throughout the world as a major threat, not only to the region but to the world. Can you imagine what would happen if Iran fires a bullet towards Israel? Do you know how many countries will attack Iran? Not only will Iran fail to defend Palestinians, it will fail to protect itself. Fighting Israel means fighting more than one country. It means atleast fighting Israel and the U.S. So by all means it is not a simple decision. But, if you observe carefully, things are about to change within the next decade or so.

The KSA has spent hundreds of billions of dollars on weapons. So has half the gulf countries..

But forget the weapons, even forget the oil card, which is one the most powerful cards on the world, no fat king or prince or even official from the gulf has so much as condemned the attack so far. We are all partners in the crime.

[Dion 2,476]

If none of them is going to interfere I can only assume Palestinians are definitely doomed. The israeli right wing only grows stronger by the day. Extremists gather more and more followers in both sides, which only takes us further away from peace and will only bring more attacks and hatred.

But what pisses me off more than anything else about this is that jews should know better than anyone else how it feels to be expelled from your own land and to be discriminated against. Or how it feels to have another people try to exterminate your own people. Hypocrisy doesn't even come close to describe the situation. When they were weaker and minority in Palestine, this was not the way they were treated. I mean, there were of course problems here and there, as one should expect from two different groups living together, but not government enforced discrimination like what we're seeing now.

Human stupidity annoys me like no other.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Good that lebanon is united about it. Just watched a film on al jazeera, and before the terrified gaza residents can blame Israel many are saying 'where are our arab brothers ?'

Its a tragic situation, and you know israel before they stop will commit an even bigger atrocity, as they always do.

Its not a normal situation, however the media like to portray it as two equal sides, as we know. In a normal conflict situation, the bottom line in terms of resolution is talk. Jaw, jaw, not war war. However this is the last thing Israel wants, they want to get rid of Gaza and have it like they have all the other occupied land, so they will constantly provoke and kill. Unfortunately there are no organisations that can help that much - we learned during my politics degree how US controlled the UN is- but perhaps the best hope is from the Arab league. They need to make concerted efforts, not to israel as this is pissing in the wind, but to the US and the west. History would need to be dug up, and truths presented about the artificial borders set up by the west and colonialism. A united arab diplomatic front, composed of muslim, christian, jewish representatives is to my mind the best hope of restraining israel, and a more important goal than a two state solution. Thoughts ?

Honestly, I have more faith in Israel than in the Arab league! They're all a bunch of over fed tyrants that know nothing and care nothing about the people. All they care about is power and sex. Just look up the quotes by Tzipi Livni where she said that she slept with some Arab leaders when she the minister of foreign affairs to get them to change their political stance including dropping their support for Lebanon during the 2006 assault.

If there ever will be a change to the current 'equation' it would mostly likely come from the people themselves.

[Dion 2,476]

I also find it funny when israelis talk about fighting terrorism and not compromising with terrorist groups when they had the "paramilitary" group Haganah/Irgun - it never ceases to amaze me which groups history decides to name terrorist or paramilitary/freedom fighters/resistance/militia/whatever.

[Fulham Broadway 17,305]

Honestly, I have more faith in Israel than in the Arab league! They're all a bunch of over fed tyrants that know nothing and care nothing about the people. All they care about is power and sex. Just look up the quotes by Tzipi Livni where she said that she slept with some Arab leaders when she the minister of foreign affairs to get them to change their political stance including dropping their support for Lebanon during the 2006 assault.

If there ever will be a change to the current 'equation' it would mostly likely come from the people themselves.

Jesus! ' More faith in israel than the arab league' they must be bad. Unfortunately "change from the people" would not include israelis seeing as more than 90% support the slaughter. Even knesset dissenters are ousted and branded as traitors.

The future looks very bleak for Palestinians, save an ideological global moment of truth -we're all spinning on a ball in space, all money spent on weapons should be spent on exploring that space, no nation states, no gods, no masters.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

The KSA has spent hundreds of billions of dollars on weapons. So has half the gulf countries..

But forget the weapons, even forget the oil card, which is one the most powerful cards on the world, no fat king or prince or even official from the gulf has so much as condemned the attack so far. We are all partners in the crime.

I kind of disagree with you there. They all did condemn it, but they don't want to give legitimacy to Hamas. You know that Hamas had no legitimacy on Egypt in the days of Mubarak. In a nutshell, because they starting killing soldiers on the borders and due to what they did to Fateh. On the other hand, as you accurately said, Qatar is trying to make a name for itself. You probably also know that there were plans to break down KSA through the militants in Yemen. Hamas are being funded by Qatar like you said. Hezbollah provided the training while Iran provide the weapons. Now look at the Gulf region, Iran constantly threatens the gullf countries and it has warned before that the first thing it will do if attacked by the U.S is fire at the oil fields of the gulf.

So things are pretty much intertwined here.

The only weapon the Gulf countries have is oil. Whatever billions are spent in weapons is accurate. But by all means this is not spending for war. Qatar who spent 11 billion dollars this year to but weapons from the U.S wasn't because they need it as a military. Invading Qatar will take 24 hrs tops, just like Iraq invaded Kuwait. They did it in half a day. Qatar gives these weapons to different groups. Hamas is one, but also you should take a look at Libya. The militants are getting their weapons from Qatar. KSA on the other hand were heavily funding the resistance in Syria when the revolution turned into a civil war. So don't be fooled by the money they spend on weapons. There will be no war without AT LEAST Egypt. And you know how passionate the Egyptians feel (as people) about Palestine. But that simply will not happen now because of that peace treaty.

I agree with you that we are all partners in the crime. But not for long. Look carefully at the region. Somethings are changing. A power is rising. And it is getting unprecedented political and financial (economical) aid from a lot around it. The few upcoming years will flip the situation upside down.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Good that lebanon is united about it. Just watched a film on al jazeera, and before the terrified gaza residents can blame Israel many are saying 'where are our arab brothers ?'

Its a tragic situation, and you know israel before they stop will commit an even bigger atrocity, as they always do.

Its not a normal situation, however the media like to portray it as two equal sides, as we know. In a normal conflict situation, the bottom line in terms of resolution is talk. Jaw, jaw, not war war. However this is the last thing Israel wants, they want to get rid of Gaza and have it like they have all the other occupied land, so they will constantly provoke and kill. Unfortunately there are no organisations that can help that much - we learned during my politics degree how US controlled the UN is- but perhaps the best hope is from the Arab league. They need to make concerted efforts, not to israel as this is pissing in the wind, but to the US and the west. History would need to be dug up, and truths presented about the artificial borders set up by the west and colonialism. A united arab diplomatic front, composed of muslim, christian, jewish representatives is to my mind the best hope of restraining israel, and a more important goal than a two state solution. Thoughts ?

Things will definitely not come out of the Arab league. But a few Arab countries.

[Amblève. 4,995]

How likely is it for muslim countries to interfere military again in the conflict if Israel goes on with this massacre? How attached are they to the palestinians, who are fellow muslims?

Realistically speaking, I can see only two outcomes to this. Israel killing the last palestinian and nobody giving a shit or muslim countries deciding it's enough and wiping Israel from existance.

Oh hello WW3!

[Dion 2,476]

Oh hello WW3!

That would be a possibility. It would get pretty insane if there were nuclear bombs involved from Israel and Iran.

[Stingray 9,441]

The official Goldstone UN fact finding report about Gaza in 2009. The amount of times there is 'no evidence' for all the Israeli allegations is phenomenal. But i gues tis is a biased source as well for some on here?

I hope you are brave enough to read it and take it into consideration.

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/12session/A-HRC-12-48.pdf

[Fulham Broadway 17,305]

The official Goldstone UN fact finding report about Gaza in 2009. The amount of times there is 'no evidence' for all the Israeli allegations is phenomenal. But i gues tis is a biased source as well for some on here?

I hope you are brave enough to read it and take it into consideration.

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/12session/A-HRC-12-48.pdf

Shocking my man. There was another one about civilians complaining to the Israleis about the completely unjustifiable demolishing of their homes. Of over 1000 complaints the Israelis ignored all but 36, and those 36 they just sent out acknowledgments. That was in 2009, and nothing done since. If there was Noble Prize for Cuntishness.....

[Fernando 6,585]

How likely is it for muslim countries to interfere military again in the conflict if Israel goes on with this massacre? How attached are they to the palestinians, who are fellow muslims?

Realistically speaking, I can see only two outcomes to this. Israel killing the last palestinian and nobody giving a shit or muslim countries deciding it's enough and wiping Israel from existance.

I would think if it starts from somewhere it wouldn't be from a Muslim country, but Russia.

With Russia in the mix, then some other countries might join.

[Stingray 9,441]

Mustafa Barghouthi

Debunked: The Mendacious Propaganda Israel is Pushing to Justify Its War On Gaza

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July 30, 2014 |

It is time to clarify the real facts on the aggression the Israelis started on the Palestinians. Unfortunately, the Israeli narrative has dominated in the global media. It’s very important to uncover the Israeli narrative and bring facts to the public’s attention. The world needs to differentiate between myths and truth.

The first and very important point is that it was Israel which initiated this war and not the Palestinians.

This is very different from what is presented in most of the media and it’s completely wrong to accept the Israeli narrative here. Israelis claim that Israel was subjected to rocket shooting from Gaza to which Israel responded by airstrikes. This is not true. The reality is that Israel initiated airstrikes on Gaza, several times, and assassinated people in Gaza, trying to provoke a reaction until they got rockets being shot at Israel. And then, it was spun in the media as Israel defending itself.

The second point is that this war started not in Gaza but in the West Bank, when the Israeli army, without providing a single proof that Palestinians were responsible for the disappearance and subsequent death of three settlers, started a collective punishment campaign all over the West Bank. One of the results of that campaign was the arrest of more than 1,000 Palestinians, including huge numbers of Palestinian members of Parliament, bringing the number of Palestinian parliamentarians in Israeli jails to 34. During that campaign moreover, Israel invaded more than 3,000 houses, destroyed many of them, stole money from people and destroyed furniture. Israeli forces initiated wide-ranging violence against Palestinians and started using high-velocity bullets and gun shots against peaceful demonstrators who were protesting against the kidnapping of Muhammad Abu Khdeir who was tortured and burned alive by Israeli settlers. This led to a very serious escalation all over the West Bank.

The third point is that this war in not on Hamas only, it is a war on all Palestinians. It is a war on Palestinians in Gaza, it is a war on Palestinians in the West Bank, in East Jerusalem and on the Palestinians in general. It is very important to mention that most of the people who suffer from the Israeli aggressions are civilians. At the time of writing this article, on the 26th of July, at least 1,000 Palestinians have been killed, 90% of whom were civilians. Among them, are more than 208 children. Over 6000 people have been injured, 31% of whom were children. Whole families have been eliminated. Just this morning, 20 members from the same family, including 11 children, were killed in their sleep as the building they had found refuge in only the day before was leveled. We are talking about more than 30 families that have been scratched out of the civil record because the whole extended family was eliminated, the father, the mother, the grand-parents, the grand-children, everybody. This kind of extermination of people, this level of attack is nothing less than a massacre, a genocide that is conducted by Israel.

To add insult to injury, Israel has forced hundreds of thousands of people to evacuate their homes, forcing them to leave by bombarding them. No less than 13,000 homes were completely or partially destroyed, thousands of people have lost everything, their clothes, a lifetime of belongings and memories and now, hundreds of thousands of people are refugees once more, many living in schools, with nothing. If the war ends, when they come back, they will come back to nothing, only rubble. Entire neighborhoods like Shujaeya were completely eliminated within 24 hours. Even hospitals were attacked. So far, the Israeli army has attacked seven hospitals, 13 ambulances and two Medical Relief centers, among other clinics. In several cases, they have injured and killed medical workers and/or patients. They also attacked a care facility for disabled people, killing two disabled women in the process. On another occasion, a disabled young man, deaf and unable to speak, did not understand what was going on until he was directly hit and paralyzed from the waist down, adding yet another disability to his life. The most touching and heart-wrenching words I have heard were those of a man who was speaking to two of his children in the hospital, killed by Israeli airstrike: “Forgive me my children, I could not protect you.”

This feeling of helplessness is overwhelming because thousands and thousands of people today in Gaza, thousands of mothers and fathers are unable to protect their children. Many have seen their children killed; some have seen their children decapitated by Israeli shrapnel.

The next point I want to make is related to the claim that Israel has the right to defend itself. The most insulting thing here is that many of the world’s leaders like Angela Merkel of Germany and Barack Obama of the United States are speaking of Israel’s right to defend itself, while no single word is said of the Palestinians’ right to defend themselves, although the Palestinians are the oppressed ones, the underdogs in this struggle. The Palestinians are the ones whose land has been occupied for 47 years, who have been forced into displacement and refugee status since 1948, who are suffering from a system of apartheid, discrimination and segregation created by the Israeli occupation. Yet, not a single word has been uttered about our right to defend ourselves.

In reality, what we see from the Israeli narrative is nothing but a consistent effort to dehumanize Palestinians, as if Palestinians are not equal human beings, as if Palestinian life is not important, as if Palestinian life is worth nothing, as if it is okay that over 1,000 Palestinians are killed and 6000 are injured. Meanwhile, all anybody is talking about is the psychological impact on the Israeli population of the fear, although so far projectiles fired out of Gaza have killed just two civilians. Up until now, 42 Israelis were killed, 40 of whom were soldiers. These are soldiers who were killed inside Gaza while they were invading Gaza and attacking people in an act of aggression. We don’t want anybody to die, whether Israeli or Palestinian. But to say that Palestinians are the aggressors in this situation is very wrong and totally unacceptable.

The asymmetry in the current situation is also a very important point to clarify. We are talking here about the Israeli army which is probably the fourth most powerful army in the world, attacking civilians in one of the most crowded areas of the world, with 1.8 million people living in less than 140 square miles, about 12,000 people per square mile on “normal” days, but nearly double that number these days, as Israel has declared 44% of Gaza unsafe and hammered in the message by bombings homes. These 1.8 million people have been attacked by a powerful air force, very powerful ships, and artillery, while these people have only very primitive means to defend themselves. Even the rockets that were thrown at Israel – and we don’t want these rockets to be thrown – are almost invariably nothing but a psychological instrument. This has been frightening Israelis, it is true, but these projectiles have caused harm exceedingly rarely. The harm is happening almost entirely on one side, the Palestinian side. There is no way anyone can compare the two, this sophisticated army and the Palestinian people. The asymmetry is clear and yet, Israeli forces are consistently using indiscriminate and disproportional force against the Palestinian population.

One element that is almost always ignored is the issue of the siege of Gaza. The siege on Gaza has been ongoing for eight years and it has caused the most dramatic humanitarian crisis not only in this region but probably worldwide. We are talking about 1.8 million people besieged by sea, by air and by land. Israel is controlling all passages, it is controlling the sky and it is controlling the sea. Fishermen are not allowed to fish deeper than three miles into the sea; they haven’t been allowed to sail at all for the past three weeks. Almost nobody can get in or out, even to go to the hospital or receive medical treatment. The one entrance to Egypt is also closed from the Egyptian side. This siege has caused very serious problems. Gaza lacks construction materials. Gaza does not have access to clean water; 90% of the water in Gaza is not fit for drinking because it is either salinated or polluted. More than 300,000 people have lost all water supply because the water pipes were destroyed by Israeli shelling and when workers tried to repair them, they were shot at by the Israeli military.

Electricity is an enormous problem in Gaza too. Most of the time, most people do not have electricity for more than six to eight hours a day. Today, more than one third of the population does not have any electricity at all because Israel bombarded the only electricity plant in Gaza. Because of the siege, 90% of educated young people are unemployed. Because of the siege, the level of poverty is very high in Gaza, a fact compounded by the high prices of basic products which have to come from Israel. This is an unacceptable situation. A siege like that is considered an act of aggression. It is very important to remind world politicians of the fact that, in 1967, Israel declared that it had the right to attack Egypt, Syria, Jordan and the Palestinian people and occupy all of the West Bank, East Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights and the whole of Sinai just because the Egyptian army closed the passage to Eilat, a small port in the southern part of Israel. Israel still had full access to the Mediterranean Sea, yet they considered this an act of aggression that gave them the right to conduct one of the worst wars in the Middle East. That is why we say that a ceasefire is not enough; it is very important to also lift the siege on Gaza, because the siege itself is an act of aggression.

Today the Palestinians have been demanding to have a ceasefire. But Israel is refusing. Three or four efforts were made to have at least a humanitarian ceasefire, so that the Palestinians could take out all the bodies of those who were killed and who are buried under the rubble in Shujaeya and other places like Khuzaa. It is heartbreaking to note that there are many injured people there probably, who still cannot get access to medical care and who will die, bleeding out slowly or from their wounds, because no full ceasefire was allowed to take place and no medical teams were allowed to reach them. As a matter of fact, Israel has attacked not only hospitals, schools, mosques and houses, but also attacked first aid teams and ambulances as well as killing three first responders. They burned down two ambulances trying to reach injured people in Shujaeya. They destroyed many clinics and many first aid providers were shot and injured. This is an act of ethnic cleansing, an act of genocide and a massive act of terror against the Palestinian population.

Dehumanizing Palestinians will never negate the facts. And it is important to clarify all of them. This war was started by Israel. It is even debatable whether it can be called a war, as a war suggests a fight between two equal sides. In reality it is not a war, it is an act of aggression from an occupying power which is trying to solve the problem of occupation by increasing the occupation. In this attack, Israel was the initiator and the victims are mainly the Palestinians.

Now the killing has extended again to the West Bank, where Israel has resumed shooting peaceful demonstrators with high-velocity bullets. For years, the world has been urging us to organize big peaceful marches with thousands of people. This is exactly what we did in Ramallah on the 24th of July when more than 25,000 marched peacefully to Jerusalem protesting the massacre in Gaza, demanding the end of aggression and demanding access to Jerusalem to go pray in Al Aqsa on the holiest of all nights for Muslim Palestinians. Before we reached the checkpoint, which was heavily manned, the Israeli army started to shoot people. Snipers shot demonstrators with high-velocity bullets in a scene reminiscent of what the apartheid police did to the peaceful protestors in Soweto in the 1970s. During the night, 211 Palestinians were shot with high-velocity bullets. During the course of four hours, six of them lost an eye, six others were injured critically and one lost his life. The very next day, the Israeli army, using live fire, killed nine Palestinians who were demonstrating peacefully in Hebron, Nablus, Bethlehem and Jenin. Approximately 60 people were injured. The list goes on.

The people who are being killed in the West Bank are not Hamas and are not in Gaza. They are not shooting rockets at Israel, they do not have any weapons to defend themselves. Yet they are killed repeatedly by an Israeli army which considers itself above international law thanks to the silence and complicity of many Western leaders. UN Secretary General, Mr. Ban Ki-Moon, does not have the courage to hold Israel accountable, even when a UN school serving as a shelter in Beit Hanoun is attacked by the Israeli army, killing 16 women and children and injuring 200 others.

Finally, one has to remember that this stage of terrible violence has repeatedly happened over the last 66 years. The root of the problem is Israel’s occupation of Palestinian land, settlement building and the forcing of hundreds of thousands of people out of their homes. This is the longest occupation in modern history and has endured for 47 years. This is an occupation that has transformed into a system of apartheid and discrimination. Without solving this, without ending the occupation and the apartheid system, there will be no peace, let alone stability or normal life. When we struggle as Palestinians for our freedom, it is not only about our future, but also about the future of Israelis. Because Israelis will never be free themselves as long as we are not free. It is time to see that extremists in Israel, who have benefited from all these wars, are using Palestinian lives and neighborhoods as a testing area for their weapons, so that Israel can still continue selling weapons worldwide, becoming the third largest military exporter in the world. This has to stop.

Occupation must stop and this asymmetry must be addressed; impunity and reality must be exposed. It is time to tell Israel “enough is enough”; it is time to say to the world “please see the reality, look at the facts.” Citizens from all the countries in the world, be it the United States, Germany, or France are entitled to know the truth and your media are not telling you the truth. Your media, for the most part, are overwhelmed with the Israeli narrative. This has to be corrected.

Dr. Mustafa Barghouthi is a leading figure in Palestinian civil society, a long-time advocate for the non-violent Palestinian protest movement, one of the founders of the independent political party, the Palestinian National Initiative, and a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization's .

[dave30 728]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2707036/PETER-HITCHENS-Israel-s-bloody-assault-Gaza-dream-come-true-Hamas.html

Good article on the pragmatic foolishness as well as moral repugnancy of Israel's attack.