Politics & Stuff

[Weckerz 3,781]

Yeah, Dieudonné has been condemned many times by courts — the same courts that refused to respond to the accusations that some muslims associations have made toward some french medias, because those medias published caricatures of Mahomet. Double standard.

Say something or make fun against someone or something that happens to be jew -> you're the brand new Hitler and you shall be ostracized.

Make fun of a holy man who is adored and who is sacred for millions of people -> you're held by all the politicians and medias as the hero and the champion of the so called "freedom of speech".

Yea I'm sure a Front National combattant makes fun of people that 'happen to be jews', give me a break.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

If you understood what Front National embodies and how fascism is discretely but surely creeping back in to society you wouldn't shrug it off so easily as nonsense.

The question is wether Anelka knew about what the salute is perceived as by the general public, something you'd assume he does, seeing he is close friends with the man who popularized the gesture in his country.

I am not shrugging it off by any means. I said the world is full of terrorists and racists whom we need to combat erase from our societies. But it is never that black or white. Labelling someone who is antizionist as antisemitic is the same as labeling Obama a communist for wanting to implement healthcare for example or Madella a terrorist for opposing US and British plans...etc

Using the rising of facism as excuse to suppress any antizionist, antiemperialist, antiestablishment...etc criticisms or any political ideas that differs from the media propaganda induced general consensus is just another face of facism.

[Weckerz 3,781]

I am not shrugging it off by any means. I said the world is full of terrorists and racists whom we need to combat erase from our societies. But it is never that black or white. Labelling someone who is antizionist as antisemitic is the same as labeling Obama a communist for wanting to implement healthcare for example or Madella a terrorist for opposing US and British plans...etc

Using the rising of facism as excuse to suppress any antizionist, antiemperialist, antiestablishment...etc criticisms or any political ideas that differs from the media propaganda induced general consensus is just another face of facism.

Using the rise of fascism as an excuse? Not sure I follow and I haven't made any excuses. I'm not sure why you're overcomplifying things by bringing up these Mandela or Obama examples either.

It's rather simple, the man is close with Front National, a disgrace of a far right racist party, that's not a grey area, that's pitch black.

Now I realise this is about Diedonne now rather than Anelka, you can still question his knowledge of the gesture, I for one don't believe he wasn't aware.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Using the rise of fascism as an excuse? Not sure I follow and I haven't made any excuses. I'm not sure why you're overcomplifying things by bringing up these Mandela or Obama examples either.

It's rather simple, the man is close with Front National, a disgrace of a far right racist party, that's not a grey area, that's pitch black.

Now I realise this is about Diedonne now rather than Anelka, you can still question his knowledge of the gesture, I for one don't believe he wasn't aware.

Not you using the excuse, politicians. It is not simple at all and the Mandella and Obama examples are exactly like this case: Just because someone opposes or supports something that someone terrorist or facist group opposes or supports does not make that someone a terrorist or facist himself.

To make this easier let me try to make the examples simpler. Some terrorists oppose the US foreign policy and commit terrorist acts against the US. Mandella opposes the US foreign policies because they hurt his people and country. That does not make Mandella a terrorist even if he shares an "enemy" with some terrorists. But still, the US puts Mandella on the list of terrorists and treat him the same as the terrorists that bomb civilians in order to suppress his ideas and kill his cause because equality and getting rid of discrimination goes against the US best interest in that region.

Same applies here. Antisemitic people hate Zionism because (on the surface) it concerns Jews. Anelka hates Zionism because of all the horrible things zionists have done and continue to do in the world and especially the Middle East. So Anelka does a gesture that is defined by who created it as antizionist and antiestablishment gesture. Some of the antisemitic people also do the gesture because they hate Zionism as well. That does not make that gesture antisemitic nor does it make Anelka so. Of course he should not be making it on a football pitch but that's another discussion. And just like Mandella was labelled as a terrorist, Anelkas friend is labeled as antisemitic by the French courts because it is in the best interest of some powerful lobbies that the ideas criticising Zionism and behind them the oil and weapons companies and ultimately imperialism are suppressed and stripped of any moral appeal.

[Melanicus 5,208]

He did not know that this gesture was anti-semitic because it is NOT anti-semitic. There's nothing to add — except that you people should start thinking by yourself instead of believing words coming from politicians and mainstream medias who are corrupted and under influence of some lobbies.

The vast majority (99%) of the persons labelling this gesture as anti semitic are doing so because some powerful-corrupted-evil men (Bernard-Henri Lévy, that son of bitch) in France have decided so (in order to discredit and marginalize Dieudonné and his opinions). Obviously, the mentally-dead people follow like sheeps that definition without bothering to try to understand by themselves.

If I may, I think the issue that bushman (and even LDN) we're trying to make is that: Who determines what is recognized as antisemitic and what is not?

There are a lot of gray areas just like there is with racism, homophobia...etc There are also quite a lot of entangled areas. On the surface, Zionism is about Jews and often Zionism is synonymous with the establishment (oil and weapons companies) but being antiestablishment does not make you antisemitic.

Politicians always use those gray and entangled areas to suppress opinions and causes by labeling them immoral and not "politically correct". It is strategy that is used by both left and right wings.

Nelson Mandella was on the US list of terrorists till 2008. So that makes everyone who supported his cause till that date a terrorist?

The world is unfortunately full of racists, terrorists, antisemitic people, homophobic people...etc but it is also full of people who use those tags to suppress ideas beliefs and causes.

Yeah, Dieudonné has been condemned many times by courts — the same courts that refused to respond to the accusations that some muslims associations have made toward some french medias, because those medias published caricatures of Mahomet. Double standard.

Say something or make fun against someone or something that happens to be jew -> you're the brand new Hitler and you shall be ostracized.

Make fun of a holy man who is adored and who is sacred for millions of people -> you're held by all the politicians and medias as the hero and the champion of the so called "freedom of speech".

This is pure gold.

Zionist pussies have a lot of money and good positions in politics. They are afraid for their fat ugly asses and take advantage of discrimination that is positive for them and is going on around the world right now (with gays, women, Jews etc). They destroy every opponent by crying that everyone who is against them is being Nazi based on WW2 history with Jews. This is spread by western, European&USA media, whose assholes are being licked by Israel. I think it's a fucking shame to use history of your ancestors who died during war against real Nazis to keep your ugly fat ass in the good position.

[Weckerz 3,781]

Not you using the excuse, politicians. It is not simple at all and the Mandella and Obama examples are exactly like this case: Just because someone opposes or supports something that someone terrorist or facist group opposes or supports does not make that someone a terrorist or facist himself.

To make this easier let me try to make the examples simpler. Some terrorists oppose the US foreign policy and commit terrorist acts against the US. Mandella opposes the US foreign policies because they hurt his people and country. That does not make Mandella a terrorist even if he shares an "enemy" with some terrorists. But still, the US puts Mandella on the list of terrorists and treat him the same as the terrorists that bomb civilians in order to suppress his ideas and kill his cause because equality and getting rid of discrimination goes against the US best interest in that region.

Same applies here. Antisemitic people hate Zionism because (on the surface) it concerns Jews. Anelka hates Zionism because of all the horrible things zionists have done and continue to do in the world and especially the Middle East. So Anelka does a gesture that is defined by who created it as antizionist and antiestablishment gesture. Some of the antisemitic people also do the gesture because they hate Zionism as well. That does not make that gesture antisemitic nor does it make Anelka so. Of course he should not be making it on a football pitch but that's another discussion. And just like Mandella was labelled as a terrorist, Anelkas friend is labeled as antisemitic by the French courts because it is in the best interest of some powerful lobbies that the ideas criticising Zionism and behind them the oil and weapons companies and ultimately imperialism are suppressed and stripped of any moral appeal.

Jesus Christ, how did we end up discussing Antisemitism vs zionism, muslims vs jews, lebanon vs Israel, whatever you want to call it?

He's close friends with a blatant racist, yea racist, wether he is antizionist or anti-establishment as well I don't give a fudge. FN, NV-A, PVV, they're all nazi-collaborator nests, manipulating the population with hate and intolerance.

It's obvious it's me versus the rest here so I'm ending this discussion. It makes me sick.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Typical bourgeoisie lefties trying to play it down. If it was anything perceived to be right wing or racist you'd all be in tears of self-righteousness demanding a lifetime ban. Footballers shouldn't be messing around with political gestures of any kind on the pitch.

Hop off it, you poor right wingers, oh please think of the right wing!

[Stingray 9,441]

I'll say it again - it doesn't matter what he meant, if the act is recognized as an anti-semitic one then its wrong that he did it no matter what he actually meant.

You do not harm any one by watching Hitler movies because you keep it to yourself, and what exactly is "hitler movies" anyway?

I truly believe Anelka did not mean any harm and that was just a gesture to his dead friend.

If I may, I think the issue that bushman (and even LDN) we're trying to make is that: Who determines what is recognized as antisemitic and what is not?

There are a lot of gray areas just like there is with racism, homophobia...etc There are also quite a lot of entangled areas. On the surface, Zionism is about Jews and often Zionism is synonymous with the establishment (oil and weapons companies) but being antiestablishment does not make you antisemitic.

Politicians always use those gray and entangled areas to suppress opinions and causes by labeling them immoral and not "politically correct". It is strategy that is used by both left and right wings.

This. It even had a name in ideology studies: the principle of alternating tenets. Originally coined first by Destutt de Tracy in the 18th century even. Tactics as old as hookers tbh.

[bushman 2,043]

Alright then I see you've given up.

God I just hate it when people have to take arguments to a place of anger and hate..

And you call ME a kid... lol.

http://www.yourjewishnews.com/2013/07/n28209.html

I feel sorry for you.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Jesus Christ, how did we end up discussing Antisemitism vs zionism, muslims vs jews, lebanon vs Israel, whatever you want to call it?

He's close friends with a blatant racist, yea racist, wether he is antizionist or anti-establishment as well I don't give a fudge. FN, NV-A, PVV, they're all nazi-collaborator nests, manipulating the population with hate and intolerance.

It's obvious it's me versus the rest here so I'm ending this discussion. It makes me sick.

Mate, how could you miss my point so many times? Please, just reread my posts without prior judgments and you'll see that the point I was making is a very simple one. If you think that Zionism is synonymous with Judaism, or worse Islam is synonymous with antisemitism then you're right that we should end this discussion as it would be hopeless.

And PS: You just called a Muslim black person a Nazi

[bushman 2,043]

[dave30 728]

Hop off it, you poor right wingers, oh please think of the right wing!

you make no sense Yankenstein. The definite and growing antagonism towards Jews within Europe is uncomfortable and worrying.

[bushman 2,043]

you make no sense Yankenstein. The definite and growing antagonism towards Jews within Europe is uncomfortable and worrying.

Excuse me, but where do you see an antagonism towards Jews ?

[dave30 728]

Excuse me, but where do you see an antagonism towards Jews ?

Anti-Jewish hate crime is on the up in almost every part of Europe supported not only by perception but statistics. A combination of the rise of neo-nazi influenced far-right activists. growing Islamic populations and the bourgeoisie suburban left contribute to this.

[bushman 2,043]

Anti-Jewish hate crime is on the up in almost every part of Europe supported not only by perception but statistics. A combination of the rise of neo-nazi influenced far-right activists. growing Islamic populations and the bourgeoisie suburban left contribute to this.

Sometimes, stats are altered to one´s needs. However, let´s say they are on the rise, but economical situation has a lot to do with it.

Plenty of Jewish unlawful deals over the years attributed to it too.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Mate, how could you miss my point so many times? Please, just reread my posts without prior judgments and you'll see that the point I was making is a very simple one. If you think that Zionism is synonymous with Judaism, or worse Islam is synonymous with antisemitism then you're right that we should end this discussion as it would be hopeless.

And PS: You just called a Muslim black person a Nazi

Didn't you know?! Nazis have a HUGE Muslim Black population!

This is so ridiculous.

[Weckerz 3,781]

Mate, how could you miss my point so many times? Please, just reread my posts without prior judgments and you'll see that the point I was making is a very simple one. If you think that Zionism is synonymous with Judaism, or worse Islam is synonymous with antisemitism then you're right that we should end this discussion as it would be hopeless.

And PS: You just called a Muslim black person a Nazi

You think I'm missing the point? You've ignored my point about being associated with FN like 4 times now, I don't see why I wouldn't ignore your Middle-East stories or your examples about how people or beliefs can be perceived differently depending where you live. You're obviously gonna write back to me in a couple of hours with another page of random stuff, instead of saying how you feel about his affiliation with Front National.

And don't act as if it's laughable to compare a muslim to a nazi, or to associate them. Even back then in the 40ies Hitler regularly met with a Grand Mufti. Today a lot of muslims are denying the holocaust. Most Muslims I know are anti-semetic to the bone.

[Weckerz 3,781]

Didn't you know?! Nazis have a HUGE Muslim Black population!

This is so ridiculous.

You know nothing.