The European Leagues & Competitions Thread V2

[OneMoSalah 8,778]

3 hours ago, LAM09 said:

That train of thought doesn't make too much sense since they had a perfect group stage record, which included one of the other CL quarterfinalists & the impending La Liga champions. The manner of their defeat has more to do with Tuchel's poor selection, tbh.

This is the same Bayern squad who crashed out to Villarreal last season. The same Bayern squad who also lost to PSG the previous season.

There has long been issues with Bayern in Europe for seasons now in knockout games (even before they won it with Hansi Flick). Even with Pep & Ancelotti. This last 6, 7 or 8 years or so they just didn’t seem to be the same force in Europe as they were with Jupp or even van Gaal that year getting them to a final in the knockouts. Just missing something to turn those in game moments in their favour. Be it quality or mental.

Even tonights game, you can see a midfield pair of Goretzka and Kimmich against the elite teams is going to be a weakness more than a strength (I mean you can actually hear Tuchel shouting at Goretzka prior to Rodri’s goal), they are more forward thinking players. They are good with the ball but not as good as a pair without it really. Joshua Kimmich is an allrounder but his mobility is poor and he’s often caught out of position. Goretzka is good at arriving in forward areas also but again defensively, is he up to it at the highest level? People forget Thiago‘s part in this Bayern team - he could do everything. Tackle, intercept, press, control games, break the lines, score, assist. And its not like Tuchel is the only manager to pick that duo in MF - Nagelsmann did, Flick did, Kovac did. The frontline is questionable but who’s the alternative? Who’s their number 9? 

Bayern, in phases of the game earlier, they  do play well particularly after the goal, HT then the CB makes a huge error. Throw in no top level number 9 at this level too (as we all know), its tough when a team as ruthless as City can just nick a goal in these phases of the game. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by OneMoSalah

[robsblubot 3,508]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

They are good with the ball but not as good as a pair without it really.

That happens because of the bubble. City suffers from that to some degree--of course PL is much stronger, and they have so much quality that they will eventually win CL.

The bubble exists because the strengths of a team built to be effective against weaker sides can be very different from the qualities needed to beat the stronger sides, esp in single elim games. We beat City without suffering too much in that CL final, but we could play PL 10 times and they would still come out the winners. Bayern does not face strong opposition in Germany... Dortmund, with its flamboyant style at times, but not really.

There are players too who are meant for CL, while others do better in the cadence of a long championship. Few clubs in the world can compete in both fronts.

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by robsblubot

[LAM09 6,752]

12 hours ago, robsblubot said:

My comment wasn't about this season, but a more generic one.

disagree. Tuchel just arrived and this has very little, almost nothing, to do with him. City will beat them in Germany too, because they are that much better. Honestly, don't think much of their starting XI tbh... Would like Musiala and more for the promise than what he currently can deliver. Sane must be a German joke, which escapes me.

That's where we disagree. Leaving Muller on the bench for almost 80 minutes when you don't have a natural CF invited pressure on them and made things even easier for City. 

I favoured City over them prior to Nagelsmann's sacking, so I'm not saying he'd have miraculously gotten the better of them, but the tie on the whole wouldn't have been a blowout after the first leg either.

11 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

This is the same Bayern squad who crashed out to Villarreal last season. The same Bayern squad who also lost to PSG the previous season.

There has long been issues with Bayern in Europe for seasons now in knockout games (even before they won it with Hansi Flick). Even with Pep & Ancelotti. This last 6, 7 or 8 years or so they just didn’t seem to be the same force in Europe as they were with Jupp or even van Gaal that year getting them to a final in the knockouts. Just missing something to turn those in game moments in their favour. Be it quality or mental.

Even tonights game, you can see a midfield pair of Goretzka and Kimmich against the elite teams is going to be a weakness more than a strength (I mean you can actually hear Tuchel shouting at Goretzka prior to Rodri’s goal), they are more forward thinking players. They are good with the ball but not as good as a pair without it really. Joshua Kimmich is an allrounder but his mobility is poor and he’s often caught out of position. Goretzka is good at arriving in forward areas also but again defensively, is he up to it at the highest level? People forget Thiago‘s part in this Bayern team - he could do everything. Tackle, intercept, press, control games, break the lines, score, assist. And its not like Tuchel is the only manager to pick that duo in MF - Nagelsmann did, Flick did, Kovac did. The frontline is questionable but who’s the alternative? Who’s their number 9? 

Bayern, in phases of the game earlier, they  do play well particularly after the goal, HT then the CB makes a huge error. Throw in no top level number 9 at this level too (as we all know), its tough when a team as ruthless as City can just nick a goal in these phases of the game. 

They bought Mane, de Ligt, & Gravenberch a matter of months ago, so it clearly isn't the same squad. The issue is the failure to bring in a natural replacement for Lewy, which is why they've been linked with Kane and, more recently, Osimhen. 

I partially agree with the points you made about their flaws in midfield. However, on the flip side, they had Gravenberch on the bench; he would have offered more of a presence than last night's duo combined. 

[Fernando 6,465]

31 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

That's where we disagree. Leaving Muller on the bench for almost 80 minutes when you don't have a natural CF invited pressure on them and made things even easier for City. 

I favoured City over them prior to Nagelsmann's sacking, so I'm not saying he'd have miraculously gotten the better of them, but the tie on the whole wouldn't have been a blowout after the first leg either.

They bought Mane, de Ligt, & Gravenberch a matter of months ago, so it clearly isn't the same squad. The issue is the failure to bring in a natural replacement for Lewy, which is why they've been linked with Kane and, more recently, Osimhen. 

I partially agree with the points you made about their flaws in midfield. However, on the flip side, they had Gravenberch on the bench; he would have offered more of a presence than last night's duo combined. 

I think Lukaku would kill it there. 

[LAM09 6,752]

4 minutes ago, Fernando said:

I think Lukaku would kill it there. 

The last thing Bayern wants are players with egos.

Edited April 12, 2023 by LAM09

[ZAPHOD2319 4,487]

 

[OneMoSalah 8,778]

1 hour ago, LAM09 said:

That's where we disagree. Leaving Muller on the bench for almost 80 minutes when you don't have a natural CF invited pressure on them and made things even easier for City. 

I favoured City over them prior to Nagelsmann's sacking, so I'm not saying he'd have miraculously gotten the better of them, but the tie on the whole wouldn't have been a blowout after the first leg either.

They bought Mane, de Ligt, & Gravenberch a matter of months ago, so it clearly isn't the same squad. The issue is the failure to bring in a natural replacement for Lewy, which is why they've been linked with Kane and, more recently, Osimhen. 

I partially agree with the points you made about their flaws in midfield. However, on the flip side, they had Gravenberch on the bench; he would have offered more of a presence than last night's duo combined. 

Bulk of the group is the same though. And you look around and have to ask who are the big players who can be dependable for Bayern in the biggest ties/big moments? 

Questions are going to be asked of their board/recruitment if another manager is extremely dependant on Manuel Neuer (or now Yann Sommer) & Thomas Muller as senior players to step up and provide the big moments throughout the season. Particularly without Lewandowski.

Gravenberch is talented but he hasn’t particularly featured a lot for Bayern since going there (400-500 minutes all season) and when he has, he hasn’t necessarily impressed so its easy to see why he didn’t select him in a huge game. 

On motivation/stepping up - I think thats partly why they’ve got rid of Nagelsmann and went for Tuchel because he has shown he can be a motivator as well as a tactician. Obviously will take time, he’s only 3 games in. I think it also took him a few weeks here to get some properly convincing all round performances despite his first 5 games being 1 draw & 4 wins. Difference is we kept a lot of clean sheets those games - Bayern have looked a bit all at sea since the start of the year.

Lot of talent there that just needs a bit of tough love I feel, Gnabry, Sane & Coman all shown they are top players in the past. Sane has been shocking since going back to Germany despite being an absolute revelation at City those years they won the Prem. He was a real handful to contain.

[LAM09 6,752]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

Bulk of the group is the same though. And you look around and have to ask who are the big players who can be dependable for Bayern in the biggest ties/big moments? 

Questions are going to be asked of their board/recruitment if another manager is extremely dependant on Manuel Neuer (or now Yann Sommer) & Thomas Muller as senior players to step up and provide the big moments throughout the season. Particularly without Lewandowski.

Gravenberch is talented but he hasn’t particularly featured a lot for Bayern since going there (400-500 minutes all season) and when he has, he hasn’t necessarily impressed so its easy to see why he didn’t select him in a huge game. 

On motivation/stepping up - I think thats partly why they’ve got rid of Nagelsmann and went for Tuchel because he has shown he can be a motivator as well as a tactician. Obviously will take time, he’s only 3 games in. I think it also took him a few weeks here to get some properly convincing all round performances despite his first 5 games being 1 draw & 4 wins. Difference is we kept a lot of clean sheets those games - Bayern have looked a bit all at sea since the start of the year.

Lot of talent there that just needs a bit of tough love I feel, Gnabry, Sane & Coman all shown they are top players in the past. Sane has been shocking since going back to Germany despite being an absolute revelation at City those years they won the Prem. He was a real handful to contain.

Bayern as a whole have been far too reliant on certain players for years (Neuer, Muller, Lahm while he was there, and the list goes on) and haven't been able to replace key individuals during that time. 

All the attackers you mentioned have the same issue: consistency. None of them have it, which is why they've been passed around during their careers. 

[Laylabelle 9,359]

Man U making this easy so far

[ZAPHOD2319 4,487]

 

[LAM09 6,752]

3 hours ago, Laylabelle said:

Man U making this easy so far

It didn't end that way 😄

[Gundalf 804]

20 hours ago, LAM09 said:

It didn't end that way 😄

 

[Pizy 18,368]

Unai Emery has Villa playing 10x better than we’ve looked all season. And he has barely taken any time to transform them. With talent nowhere close to what we have.

 

[Vesper 28,855]

2 hours ago, Pizy said:

Unai Emery has Villa playing 10x better than we’ve looked all season. And he has barely taken any time to transform them. With talent nowhere close to what we have.

 

I was just going to type this an hour ago, lol

[ZAPHOD2319 4,487]

Top level football!!😂😂

If it worked, why not use you drunken young men! 😂

 

[Special Juan 27,429]

Can see City being very comfortable tonight, could be the same score again

[Vesper 28,855]

 21:00 - 22:45 | CET

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE | BAYERN MÜNCHEN VS MANCHESTER CITY – S1

 21:00 - 22:45 | CET

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE | INTERNAZIONALE VS BENFICA – S2

[Vesper 28,855]

https://www.vipleague.st/football-sports-stream