Frank Lampard

[The only place to be 11,313]

Lol #Angry

Stubbed my toe on my lifesize statue of Nathanial Chalobah.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Stubbed my toe on my lifesize statue of Nathanial Chalobah.

Don't stress - after last night, which I spent defending Utd a team I hate over a questionable ref decision... I just decided to chill...

I love this term 'ready' - it's either sink or swim... Look how shit Bale was in his first few games for Spuds - look at him now!

Chalobah should get a start - if he has bad form, loan him out after 6 months, same with all our players - a few might benefit from Pre-season agreements but the rest should be blooded this year, then either played, given more time, loaned or sold...

But that happening is as likely as the Govt sorting benefits for immigrants

[The Skipper 20,593]

Not developed in what way? Physically? Mentally? Does he need to be a size 11 to be a premier league footballer and he's only a size 10 and a half?

And no he's not the same as Lamps. Do you know what he's perfect for though? The double pivot. He can distribute the ball well, defend, win balls in the air and actually act in a composed manner unlike a certain Brazilian. He also chips in with the odd goal.

You bring up this old thing about experience. What type of things do you mean? Things like the importance of local derbies? Things like securing a two goal lead and not throwing them away? People talk about Lamps like he's a fucking mascot on Blockbusters rather than a footballer.

If we're going to keep pussyfooting around with youngsters and overpaying 'big names' then we might as well shut the academy and plant potatoes on the practice pitches.

Transition has to be handled slowly - yeah, because otherwise we might find ourselves finishing 6th in the league and getting eliminated from the Champions League at the group stages.

I personally want to see if Chalobah can show the same consistency he's showing right now in the PL. He won't be used properly at CFC because he has Romeu and Mikel in front of him - he'll barely get games which will obviously stunt his development.

You seriously underestimate the vitality of experience IMO. It's not just that that Frank brings to the table though - he's obviously still a very decent footballer. Good enough to be a vital squad player for us as I've said many times before. It's like SAF starting Giggs in probably their biggest game this season last night - sometimes you need your more experienced players to step up to the plate.

Regarding your academy statement - we've seen that the club are shifting away from buying overpaid superstars and are focussing more on youth. We're getting there and I think in that aspect the club has actually done well to reduce the age of the squad and we look in prime position to finally bear fruit from a few of the younger players we've brought in. Lampard might be overpaid at this very moment but if he were to stay obviously it'd be under the conditions of reduced wages.

No one can't expect us to just chuck out the likes of Cech, JT, Lampard and Cole especially when we've witnessed something like it before (when Ballack, J Cole, Carvalho etc. left and faith were given in the likes of Kakuta, Josh etc. who obviously weren't ready) so I think having JT, Lampard and Cole around for another season will be the best option for everyone.

Like I said before, it's about having the right mixture of experience and youth, you don't want too much of either. Keeping them for another year allows us to be in that situation.

I love this term 'ready' - it's either sink or swim... Look how shit Bale was in his first few games for Spuds - look at him now!

Muzchap, this is actually a great example - look how long it took Gareth Bale to finally break through in the Tottenham team (amidst injuries). You don't want to be in the situation where you don't have a good experienced player around when a younger one is failing.

[Kinol 337]

Not developed in what way? Physically? Mentally? Does he need to be a size 11 to be a premier league footballer and he's only a size 10 and a half?

And no he's not the same as Lamps. Do you know what he's perfect for though? The double pivot. He can distribute the ball well, defend, win balls in the air and actually act in a composed manner unlike a certain Brazilian. He also chips in with the odd goal.

You bring up this old thing about experience. What type of things do you mean? Things like the importance of local derbies? Things like securing a two goal lead and not throwing them away? People talk about Lamps like he's a fucking mascot on Blockbusters rather than a footballer.

If we're going to keep pussyfooting around with youngsters and overpaying 'big names' then we might as well shut the academy and plant potatoes on the practice pitches.

Transition has to be handled slowly - yeah, because otherwise we might find ourselves finishing 6th in the league and getting eliminated from the Champions League at the group stages.

Even tough I think Chalobah is ready to play for us i still think that another season with Watford (if they get promoted for Premier League) would be the best cenario. There he would be a real first team player and he would probably get 25+ PL games, something he wont get here. Then he can come back when he is 19

[zolayes 14,489]

I really was never fully impressed by Romeu . I think Nat may now be ahead of him

[Hutcho 8,443]

I really was never fully impressed by Romeu . I think Nat may now be ahead of him

He never really got too much of an opportunity and his injury will set him back. I would love to see us just go with Nathanial as he has some amazing potential that it would be terrible to waste. Probably needs one more season on loan though for me.

[xPetrCechx 13,548]

I really was never fully impressed by Romeu . I think Nat may now be ahead of him

AKE?

[zolayes 14,489]

AKE?

Nat has the time served ..

[xPetrCechx 13,548]

Nat has the time served ..

??

[zolayes 14,489]

He never really got too much of an opportunity and his injury will set him back. I would love to see us just go with Nathanial as he has some amazing potential that it would be terrible to waste. Probably needs one more season on loan though for me.

can't argue with that,,,,even last night Hornets 1 0 at ht Nat comes on ..win 2 1 top credit to zola double sub at ht

[zolayes 14,489]

??

has had a lot of playing time with this loan

[The only place to be 11,313]

I personally want to see if Chalobah can show the same consistency he's showing right now in the PL. He won't be used properly at CFC because he has Romeu and Mikel in front of him - he'll barely get games which will obviously stunt his development.

Where is it written in stone that he has those players ahead of him? Let him fight for his place and I'm confident he'd get game time.

You seriously underestimate the vitality of experience IMO. It's not just that that Frank brings to the table though - he's obviously still a very decent footballer. Good enough to be a vital squad player for us as I've said many times before. It's like SAF starting Giggs in probably their biggest game this season last night - sometimes you need your more experienced players to step up to the plate.

And he lost to a team that had a 19 year old centre-back. It comes down to the individual.

Regarding your academy statement - we've seen that the club are shifting away from buying overpaid superstars and are focussing more on youth. We're getting there and I think in that aspect the club has actually done well to reduce the age of the squad and we look in prime position to finally bear fruit from a few of the younger players we've brought in. Lampard might be overpaid at this very moment but if he were to stay obviously it'd be under the conditions of reduced wages.

No one can't expect us to just chuck out the likes of Cech, JT, Lampard and Cole especially when we've witnessed something like it before (when Ballack, J Cole, Carvalho etc. left and faith were given in the likes of Kakuta, Josh etc. who obviously weren't ready) so I think having JT, Lampard and Cole around for another season will be the best option for everyone.

And then another season....and then another season....makes sense - they're legends after all.

Like I said before, it's about having the right mixture of experience and youth, you don't want too much of either. Keeping them for another year allows us to be in that situation.

I agree. Without Lamps we still have that mix in my opinion.

Muzchap, this is actually a great example - look how long it took Gareth Bale to finally break through in the Tottenham team (amidst injuries). You don't want to be in the situation where you don't have a good experienced player around when a younger one is failing.

Good point about Bale - he had one year in the Championship and was then included in the Tottenham first-team squad.

But just think how good he could've been if he had gone on loan to a West Brom or a Stoke. That's what needs to be done right? They need to prove themselves in the PL first. But Spurs didn't do that and look at what they're left with. The poor kid can barely use his right foot. Just another young player lost before their time.

Sometimes the club and the fans have to show a willingness to trust youngsters with exceptional talent. It might be rocky, but it could be massively rewarding but we've been to chicken to do that and it's damaged us. Sometimes I think we'd be better off if we finished 5th and couldn't sign the Falcaos and *insert flavour of the month player here* and actually had to play the youngsters because we didn't have any other choice. We might sell a few less t-shirts but it might actually make us better in the long run.

Even tough I think Chalobah is ready to play for us i still think that another season with Watford (if they get promoted for Premier League) would be the best cenario. There he would be a real first team player and he would probably get 25+ PL games, something he wont get here. Then he can come back when he is 19

I don't think we can trust him until he's at least 25, got a couple of hundred league appearances, a few England caps and at least one European Cup.

Better yet let's just sell him and buy him back when he's worth £30 million. Then we can put him on the bench whilst a 43 year old Lamps chases goal number 240. :blue scalf: :blue scalf:

[xPetrCechx 13,548]

STAY!

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Stuff like that annoys me. In what way is he not ready? Yes the jump is big but players thrown in can swim sometimes, especially if they're special talents. He's looked a class above at EVERY level he's played at and I think you could put him in the first-team against West Brom or Southampton and he'd not look out of place.

He has a composure and maturity that you can't teach players, no matter how many loans they go on. Physically he's there. Technically he's there. Mentally, he's always had something special about him. He's the type of player supporters want to see on the pitch representing their club.

Why is he not ready? Because he hasn't played against top competition. You're saying all these wonderful things about him, but it's all based on playing in competition that is vastly inferior to the competition Chelsea face. Nobody is denying he's been a very good player in the Championship but that's a far cry from being good enough for Chelsea. The Championship is the equivalent of a poor European league. It has no top players, no top teams. How many players come from the Championship and then are good enough to help a top team in the Premier League the next season? It's very rare. Yes Bale went straight to Spurs...to an 11th place side...and the next year an 8th place side. If developing young talent is more important than winning, then by all means, let's recall everyone and try to develop them but that's not even being Arsenal, that's being Southampton . To compete at the level Chelsea want to, Chelsea need to have a team of players who can play at the top level. You don't win competitions because you have people that can probably handle playing against the poorer sides. ManU isn't going to win because of Nick Powell. They're going to win because of Van Persie and Rooney and Carrick and Evra, etc...

You are creating a ridiculous false dichotomy which is that either Chelsea brings players straight from the Championship and gives them game time or our youth system is not worth pursuing. It's nonsense. The loan system is about getting players ready to play at Chelsea. Lukaku is succeeding in the Premier League, KDB iin the Bundesliga, and Courtois is excelling in La Liga. Those players are all ready to contribute to Chelsea if needed because they've shown the ability to compete at a top level. That is what is required in order to get into a Chelsea side and that's the way it should be. Chalobah is not yet at that level and he's young so I don't see the need to rush him either. It will be better for Chalobah's development to play regularly for a Premier League club. I'd rather he gets 35 games with a promoted Watford (or similar) including matchups against top clubs than to play 15 games with us all against poorer sides. We've been through this before with Kakuta and McEachran. Phenoms who were guaranteed to be good enough for Chelsea and neither were and their development stagnated. Anyway, it's a moot point because I very much doubt if Chalobah is at Chelsea next season.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Nice posts by Only Place to Be & Toronto Chelsea

I find myself agreeing with both of you!

Really good solid arguments and hasn't descended into petty insults!

Bravo!

[The only place to be 11,313]

Why is he not ready? Because he hasn't played against top competition.

More generalisations about him - nothing specific about his skillset.

You're saying all these wonderful things about him, but it's all based on playing in competition that is vastly inferior to the competition Chelsea face. Nobody is denying he's been a very good player in the Championship but that's a far cry from being good enough for Chelsea.

It's based on watching him over 3-4 years, seeing how he adapts to new challenges and assessing his individual skill set. I've asked a number of times in what ways he isn't ready and all I get are general comments about his age or the type of competition he's faced. So he plays in the PL next year - do we not call him back because he hasn't played in the Champions League?

The Championship is the equivalent of a poor European league. It has no top players, no top teams. How many players come from the Championship and then are good enough to help a top team in the Premier League the next season? It's very rare.

Chalobah is a rare talent. I'm not saying this about Josh. I'm not saying this about Bamford. I'm not saying this about Kane.

Yes Bale went straight to Spurs...to an 11th place side...and the next year an 8th place side. If developing young talent is more important than winning, then by all means, let's recall everyone and try to develop them but that's not even being Arsenal, that's being Southampton . To compete at the level Chelsea want to, Chelsea need to have a team of players who can play at the top level.

It's equally important. We're not going to be able to compete at the top level without doing both and spunking money up the wall like it's 2005 won't work in the future. It can't.

You don't win competitions because you have people that can probably handle playing against the poorer sides. ManU isn't going to win because of Nick Powell. They're going to win because of Van Persie and Rooney and Carrick and Evra, etc...

They're going to win because they've been doing the right thing for almost 20 years. Their success now is founded on their promotion of youth in the 1990s. You mistakenly said that they won with kids in the 1996 season and the fact is United didn't - they won then because they used a mix of young and experienced players, but weren't afraid to throw in youngsters if they felt they were good enough. I think Chalobah is good enough - you point out he hasn't played against top-level folk like Lee Cattermole, Paul Scharner and Luke Shaw.

You are creating a ridiculous false dichotomy which is that either Chelsea brings players straight from the Championship and gives them game time or our youth system is not worth pursuing. It's nonsense. The loan system is about getting players ready to play at Chelsea.

You have a point regarding the way I put that point across. It was frustration.

Lukaku is succeeding in the Premier League, KDB iin the Bundesliga, and Courtois is excelling in La Liga. Those players are all ready to contribute to Chelsea if needed because they've shown the ability to compete at a top level. That is what is required in order to get into a Chelsea side and that's the way it should be.

No, that's one way of it happening. There shouldn't be a prescribed method that every player must adhere to. If a player is good enough, then put him in the team and don't bother sending him out on loan. It's debatable whether KDB needed a loan this season.

Chalobah is not yet at that level and he's young so I don't see the need to rush him either.

Again, no specifics just generalisations. He's not ready how?

It will be better for Chalobah's development to play regularly for a Premier League club. I'd rather he gets 35 games with a promoted Watford (or similar) including matchups against top clubs than to play 15 games with us all against poorer sides.

So when we're talking about Lamps being kept as a squad player, it's perfectly alright for him to get 30 games a season but Chalobah can only get 15 games a season against poorer sides? Why couldn't he get 30 games a season against a range of sides including Champions League experience in the group stages, League Cup games and even FA Cup games?

Oh right, because he isn't ready. Not in any specific way, he just isn't.

We've been through this before with Kakuta and McEachran.

No. Different players, different skill sets, different physical attributes, different mentalities. Again, this is the generalised view of young players smothering an individual analysis of their values.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Lampard is def. not even England's best midfielder, how can he be top 5 in the last 2 decades....... Only people that would say he is top 5 are Chelsea fans, not even England fans....

LOOOOOOL, and I am Bozo!

[Styles 9,790]

He looked about 50 years old out there today. Slow, clumsy, off the pace, outmuscled and overrun. How many times was he dispossessed? I lost count.