Frank Lampard

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

You say I'm singling out certain examples, but you're doing the exact same thing when talking about United. They've been happy to let players (legends even) leave when they felt they needed to move on. Scholes and Giggs are the exception, not the rule.

Who was the famous quote (which I'm paraphrasing) 'you'll never win anything with kids' said about? They let some big players go in the summer before that quote was uttered because they looked at what they had and put their faith in it. We're afraid to do that despite us having as fine a crop of young talent that I can remember including one young lad who I truly believe can be Chelsea and England captain.

But he's not won any Champions Leagues yet so he can fuck off can't he.

You can't win with kids anymore. That quote was from 1995 and in that time, you could win with youth. Most teams brought up their own players. Transfers were tiny and cheap. The league was still largely British. You can't compete with top class players by bringing through kids as regular starters anymore. Other clubs are buying top players every year. There is a massive gap between potential and actual performance.

@JDY I have no idea how you can read what happened last season like that. It was up to AVB to take control of the team and he couldn't handle basic communication. Not just with Lampard or Cole but with Alex and Anelka and others. He couldn't get his message across and he didn't seem to even try. He was at fault for that. Lampard was benched under RDM earlier this year and we heard nothing. Why? RDM communicated with Lampard and unlike under AVB, we actually played well. AVB played a style that didn't suite the club and we played some awful football. Saying that the situation was ruined because of senior players is simply ridiculous.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You can't win with kids anymore. That quote was from 1995 and in that time, you could win with youth.

Actually, you couldn't. That quote is a misnomer because that team wasn't just kids. They had players like Schmiechel, Bruce, Pallister, Irwin, Cantona, Keane and even Kiggs and Sharpe who were all experienced players much like Cech, Terry, Cole, Mikel, Mata, Ivanovic, Cahill and even Luiz would be for us.

Most teams brought up their own players. Transfers were tiny and cheap. The league was still largely British. You can't compete with top class players by bringing through kids as regular starters anymore. Other clubs are buying top players every year. There is a massive gap between potential and actual performance.

Again, we need to strike the right balance. I'm not saying we shouldn't be looking in the transfer market, but that we should also be looking at our academy. All those players we want to spend millions of pounds on did come through academies though and we've spent a lot of time and money on identifying and recruiting as many as we can before they join someone else's setup.

[robsblubot 3,237]

You say I'm singling out certain examples, but you're doing the exact same thing when talking about United. They've been happy to let players (legends even) leave when they felt they needed to move on. Scholes and Giggs are the exception, not the rule.

Who was the famous quote (which I'm paraphrasing) 'you'll never win anything with kids' said about? They let some big players go in the summer before that quote was uttered because they looked at what they had and put their faith in it. We're afraid to do that despite us having as fine a crop of young talent that I can remember including one young lad who I truly believe can be Chelsea and England captain.

But he's not won any Champions Leagues yet so he can fuck off can't he.

Just out of curiosity, who would that be? (I'm not up-to-date with the youngster atm)

[Styles 9,790]

Just out of curiosity, who would that be? (I'm not up-to-date with the youngster atm)

Chalobah.

[GodZola 630]

We're afraid to do that despite us having as fine a crop of young talent that I can remember including one young lad who I truly believe can be Chelsea and England captain.

I've never subscribed to the nonsense phrase that 'that player is too young or he is too old' bollocks, and i think we have a situation here that is at both ends of the scale, a group of top performing youngsters that deserve their chance and completely agree with you on this respect - I've said as much before especially regarding Courtois, then we have Lukaku, De Bruyne, Chalobah amongst others, these players should all be drafted in to the squad next season which will act as a double edged sword in that it will save a few quid in transfers, bring yet more youth to our squad and replace some ageing players that are also on large salaries. The other end we have Cole who has already signed and Frank who imho should be given another year, these players still have a lot to offer and can still do it at the highest level. I feel we are in a win-win situation for a change and hopefully if its handled correctly we can get back to where we should be.

As i already stated the proof will be in the pudding next season, if the club let Frank leave and we are going great guns i cant see anyone batting an eye lid and i will be the first to say i got it wrong - well done the club, however if we are still struggling and Frank is banging in the goals elsewhere then the world and his brother are going to give the Club yet more stick for letting him go too early.

[JDY 1,290]

@JDY I have no idea how you can read what happened last season like that. It was up to AVB to take control of the team and he couldn't handle basic communication. Not just with Lampard or Cole but with Alex and Anelka and others. He couldn't get his message across and he didn't seem to even try. He was at fault for that. Lampard was benched under RDM earlier this year and we heard nothing. Why? RDM communicated with Lampard and unlike under AVB, we actually played well. AVB played a style that didn't suite the club and we played some awful football. Saying that the situation was ruined because of senior players is simply ridiculous.

Couldn't handle basic communication, really? This is a man who was highly praised at Porto for his attention to detail, micro management, and ability to build a tightly knit squad who worked together towards the same objective. Again, maybe you should point the finger at some of the senior players before questioning his communication. I heard no such problems with the new and younger member's of the squad, the ones who were willing to learn and adapt to a new way of playing (Luiz, Ramires, Mata, Sturridge, Romeu etc). I would rather have these players than ones who throw a strop when change is occurring. Look at Spurs now, you can tell they are fully behind the manager and they are reaping the rewards.

Lampard described his relationship with AVB as 'not ideal'. He is a professional footballer, who is paid to play, and funnily enough, carry out the managers instructions. If a player is not willing to commit himself to a new regime then why should you waste time on him? No player is bigger than the club, and no player has the right to dictate what happens, especially such important decisions.

When there is divide or unrest in the dressing room. One of two things can happen. Either the players responsible get removed, or the manager gets sacked. The latter occurs every time, you wouldn't see a club remove 4 or 5 players.

And on the subject of ridiculous, it's also silly to compare the football played then and at the start of this season. We were brilliant for a few months until teams figured us out, who is responsible for that? Are failings in the summer transfer window have attributed to this. Overbuying in positions, and having below par players in positions we need investment. Rafa has inherited all of RDMs problems, so its no surprise he's failing. But that's a whole different argument.

[Korea 734]

Chalobah.

'

I look at other team forums and they all rate him very very highly.... I don't know much about him, but from what I hear, hes the next beast from England.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Couldn't handle basic communication, really? This is a man who was highly praised at Porto for his attention to detail, micro management, and ability to build a tightly knit squad who worked together towards the same objective. Again, maybe you should point the finger at some of the senior players before questioning his communication. I heard no such problems with the new and younger member's of the squad, the ones who were willing to learn and adapt to a new way of playing (Luiz, Ramires, Mata, Sturridge, Romeu etc). I would rather have these players than ones who throw a strop when change is occurring. Look at Spurs now, you can tell they are fully behind the manager and they are reaping the rewards.

Lampard described his relationship with AVB as 'not ideal'. He is a professional footballer, who is paid to play, and funnily enough, carry out the managers instructions. If a player is not willing to commit himself to a new regime then why should you waste time on him? No player is bigger than the club, and no player has the right to dictate what happens, especially such important decisions.

When there is divide or unrest in the dressing room. One of two things can happen. Either the players responsible get removed, or the manager gets sacked. The latter occurs every time, you wouldn't see a club remove 4 or 5 players.

And on the subject of ridiculous, it's also silly to compare the football played then and at the start of this season. We were brilliant for a few months until teams figured us out, who is responsible for that? Are failings in the summer transfer window have attributed to this. Overbuying in positions, and having below par players in positions we need investment. Rafa has inherited all of RDMs problems, so its no surprise he's failing. But that's a whole different argument.

So the old guard get all the flack for what happened with AVB? AVB has to take responsibility too. I rate AVB as a manager, things just didn't work out for him, I was gutted he was sacked but the situation was untenable. He had to go.

It really wasn't a one way street regarding what happened with Lampard and AVB - they were both at fault. Cole, Terry & Cech didn't really have problems with him either.

I seriously don't see the problem in giving Lampard at least another year with us simply because the likes of Chalobah and McEachran are far from ready, and yes KDB is coming in next season but Frank can still get close to 30 games under his belt due to KDB's versatility. Honestly, I'm not asking for Lampard to stay and be a key man and start every game, but I'd rather have him stay than us buying some second rate midfielder because we need back up in the middle.

For our midfield next year I would love to have something like Romeu, Mikel, Ramires, Lampard, KDB, [insert deep lying playmaker here] and maybe [insert extra midfielder here, whether that's someone from the youth or a new player]. I think that that midfield has the right balance of different talents and experience and depth, which is what we obviously need if we want to challenge on all fronts.

You really don't go into a season as a club with massive ambition like we do without experience all over the pitch. With all due respects to the likes of Mata, Ivanovic etc. I think Cech, Cole, Terry and Lampard are the true leaders of the squad, whilst also being more than decent footballers themselves. You don't just get rid of that because you're in a transition. You need to slowly faze them out.

[Korea 734]

we should just have lampard play cf.. he doesnt cover well in the 4-2-3-1 and he always in the box, so since people are always complaining about torres, lets just put him forward so our midfield is a little less exposed......

Also, I'm sure if we qualify for the CL next year, teams outside of England will be itching to play versus Chelsea since they know they can overrun their midfield.....

[The only place to be 11,313]

So the old guard get all the flack for what happened with AVB? AVB has to take responsibility too. I rate AVB as a manager, things just didn't work out for him, I was gutted he was sacked but the situation was untenable. He had to go.

It really wasn't a one way street regarding what happened with Lampard and AVB - they were both at fault. Cole, Terry & Cech didn't really have problems with him either.

I seriously don't see the problem in giving Lampard at least another year with us simply because the likes of Chalobah and McEachran are far from ready, and yes KDB is coming in next season but Frank can still get close to 30 games under his belt due to KDB's versatility. Honestly, I'm not asking for Lampard to stay and be a key man and start every game, but I'd rather have him stay than us buying some second rate midfielder because we need back up in the middle.

For our midfield next year I would love to have something like Romeu, Mikel, Ramires, Lampard, KDB, [insert deep lying playmaker here] and maybe [insert extra midfielder here, whether that's someone from the youth or a new player]. I think that that midfield has the right balance of different talents and experience and depth, which is what we obviously need if we want to challenge on all fronts.

You really don't go into a season as a club with massive ambition like we do without experience all over the pitch. With all due respects to the likes of Mata, Ivanovic etc. I think Cech, Cole, Terry and Lampard are the true leaders of the squad, whilst also being more than decent footballers themselves. You don't just get rid of that because you're in a transition. You need to slowly faze them out.

In what way is Chalobah 'far from ready'? How far? Is that in minutes, months, loans, litres or centimetres?

Mata has been as much of a leader in this team as anybody this season. In fact JT has played just 9 league games all season. We're in transition and we're playing a style of football that simply doesn't suit Lamps. Sure we could keep him around to play against the Stokes and West Broms of this world but couldn't we be blooding the future rather than stroking the past?

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Couldn't handle basic communication, really? This is a man who was highly praised at Porto for his attention to detail, micro management, and ability to build a tightly knit squad who worked together towards the same objective. Again, maybe you should point the finger at some of the senior players before questioning his communication. I heard no such problems with the new and younger member's of the squad, the ones who were willing to learn and adapt to a new way of playing (Luiz, Ramires, Mata, Sturridge, Romeu etc). I would rather have these players than ones who throw a strop when change is occurring. Look at Spurs now, you can tell they are fully behind the manager and they are reaping the rewards.

Lampard described his relationship with AVB as 'not ideal'. He is a professional footballer, who is paid to play, and funnily enough, carry out the managers instructions. If a player is not willing to commit himself to a new regime then why should you waste time on him? No player is bigger than the club, and no player has the right to dictate what happens, especially such important decisions.

When there is divide or unrest in the dressing room. One of two things can happen. Either the players responsible get removed, or the manager gets sacked. The latter occurs every time, you wouldn't see a club remove 4 or 5 players.

And on the subject of ridiculous, it's also silly to compare the football played then and at the start of this season. We were brilliant for a few months until teams figured us out, who is responsible for that? Are failings in the summer transfer window have attributed to this. Overbuying in positions, and having below par players in positions we need investment. Rafa has inherited all of RDMs problems, so its no surprise he's failing. But that's a whole different argument.

Attention to detail and communication are two very different things. This is a direct quote from Alex "This situation was being talked about for a while, and in part that was because of Andre's behaviour. He is not the kind of person who talks a lot - he's a bit closed. That's just the way he is." We saw even this year how upset Lloris was at AVB because he didn't communicate with him. AVB had lost the dressing room, not just Lampard. Managers are much much more replaceable than players. In our last 16 games under AVB, we won 4 games. We were drawing to teams like Wigan, Birmingham, and Norwich and losing to sides like Villa and WBA. We were blown out in Napoli where AVB used a bizarre starting XI which backfired completely. AVB left Chelsea with no choice but to fire him. We were awful! Would you have preferred that Chelsea got rid of Lampard and Cole just to keep a manager? Say goodbye to our CL win and we'd likely be even worse off now. Players like managers they can respect, they don't like managers who alienate half the players. In order to get respect, you have to earn it and AVB didn't earn it.

Yes, Rafa did inherit a team not playing well and he's still done poorly relative to that. There was no new manager bounce, and we haven't played well for any stretch of games. It doesn't matter because he's gone anyway. As for Chalobah, no he's not ready. I think he is more likely to have a long-term impact than than any other Chelsea loaned player not playing in a top league right now. However, the difference in class between the Championship and the Premier League is big but the difference between the Championship and the top of the Premier League is enormous. The best player in the Championship (which is not Chalobah) would not be good enough to play regularly at Chelsea. I agree with @the only place to be and others that we need to bring in youth players, but next year, that'll be KDB and Lukaku who are both doing well at a high level and even then, I don't see either of them being a starter right away. Chalobah needs to go back on loan to a better side. Ideally, Watford will be promoted and he'd go there, but any Premier League side where he gets regular time will do.

[MADEZ 9]

Keeping lamps ,is like keeping a bag of experience for future use,as oscar once stated in his interview that he wanted to play alongside lamps and learn from him i think is time for that,i don't want us to regret this if he is not given a contract

[The only place to be 11,313]

Attention to detail and communication are two very different things. This is a direct quote from Alex "This situation was being talked about for a while, and in part that was because of Andre's behaviour. He is not the kind of person who talks a lot - he's a bit closed. That's just the way he is." We saw even this year how upset Lloris was at AVB because he didn't communicate with him. AVB had lost the dressing room, not just Lampard. Managers are much much more replaceable than players. In our last 16 games under AVB, we won 4 games. We were drawing to teams like Wigan, Birmingham, and Norwich and losing to sides like Villa and WBA. We were blown out in Napoli where AVB used a bizarre starting XI which backfired completely. AVB left Chelsea with no choice but to fire him. We were awful! Would you have preferred that Chelsea got rid of Lampard and Cole just to keep a manager? Say goodbye to our CL win and we'd likely be even worse off now. Players like managers they can respect, they don't like managers who alienate half the players. In order to get respect, you have to earn it and AVB didn't earn it.

Yes, Rafa did inherit a team not playing well and he's still done poorly relative to that. There was no new manager bounce, and we haven't played well for any stretch of games. It doesn't matter because he's gone anyway. As for Chalobah, no he's not ready. I think he is more likely to have a long-term impact than than any other Chelsea loaned player not playing in a top league right now. However, the difference in class between the Championship and the Premier League is big but the difference between the Championship and the top of the Premier League is enormous. The best player in the Championship (which is not Chalobah) would not be good enough to play regularly at Chelsea. I agree with @the only place to be and others that we need to bring in youth players, but next year, that'll be KDB and Lukaku who are both doing well at a high level and even then, I don't see either of them being a starter right away. Chalobah needs to go back on loan to a better side. Ideally, Watford will be promoted and he'd go there, but any Premier League side where he gets regular time will do.

Stuff like that annoys me. In what way is he not ready? Yes the jump is big but players thrown in can swim sometimes, especially if they're special talents. He's looked a class above at EVERY level he's played at and I think you could put him in the first-team against West Brom or Southampton and he'd not look out of place.

He has a composure and maturity that you can't teach players, no matter how many loans they go on. Physically he's there. Technically he's there. Mentally, he's always had something special about him. He's the type of player supporters want to see on the pitch representing their club.

[MADEZ 9]

Keeping lamps ,is like keeping a bag of experience for future use,as oscar once stated in his interview that he wanted to play alongside lamps and learn from him i think is time for that,i don't want us to regret this if he is not given a contract

[MADEZ 9]

Keeping lamps ,is like keeping a bag of experience for future use,as oscar once stated in his interview that he wanted to play alongside lamps and learn from him i think is time for that,i don't want us to regret this if he is not given a contract

[The Skipper 20,593]

In what way is Chalobah 'far from ready'? How far? Is that in minutes, months, loans, litres or centimetres?

Mata has been as much of a leader in this team as anybody this season. In fact JT has played just 9 league games all season. We're in transition and we're playing a style of football that simply doesn't suit Lamps. Sure we could keep him around to play against the Stokes and West Broms of this world but couldn't we be blooding the future rather than stroking the past?

I watch Chalobah a lot, have even been to a couple of Watford games as one of my mates is like the biggest Watford fan going. Chalobah is very, very talented but he isn't ready to play 20-30 games for CFC just yet simply because he isn't developed enough, and that's why I'm praying Watford get into the PL next season so he can gain that vital development. Chalobah and Frank are different type of players anyway so we shouldn't really be bringing him up - right now he has Mikel and Romeu in front of him so he's better off developing his game further somewhere else for now IMO.

I agree Mata has been great in digging us out of trouble this season but IMO Mata isn't a big personality off the pitch just yet for us. It's important to keep Lampard in that aspect too IMO - sure, play him against the Stoke's and West Broms and bring him on or start him in the big games where experience is vital... That's fine. But like I said, I firmly believe that if you want blood in new players you do that slowly, you don't just get rid of your more experienced players who your young players look up to.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I watch Chalobah a lot, have even been to a couple of Watford games as one of my mates is like the biggest Watford fan going. Chalobah is very, very talented but he isn't ready to play 20-30 games for CFC just yet simply because he isn't developed enough, and that's why I'm praying Watford get into the PL next season so he can gain that vital development. Chalobah and Frank are different type of players anyway so we shouldn't really be bringing him up - right now he has Mikel and Romeu in front of him so he's better off developing his game further somewhere else for now IMO.

I agree Mata has been great in digging us out of trouble this season but IMO Mata isn't a big personality off the pitch just yet for us. It's important to keep Lampard in that aspect too IMO - sure, play him against the Stoke's and West Broms and bring him on or start him in the big games where experience is vital... That's fine. But like I said, I firmly believe that if you want blood in new players you do that slowly, you don't just get rid of your more experienced players who your young players look up to.

Not developed in what way? Physically? Mentally? Does he need to be a size 11 to be a premier league footballer and he's only a size 10 and a half?

And no he's not the same as Lamps. Do you know what he's perfect for though? The double pivot. He can distribute the ball well, defend, win balls in the air and actually act in a composed manner unlike a certain Brazilian. He also chips in with the odd goal.

You bring up this old thing about experience. What type of things do you mean? Things like the importance of local derbies? Things like securing a two goal lead and not throwing them away? People talk about Lamps like he's a fucking mascot on Blockbusters rather than a footballer.

If we're going to keep pussyfooting around with youngsters and overpaying 'big names' then we might as well shut the academy and plant potatoes on the practice pitches.

Transition has to be handled slowly - yeah, because otherwise we might find ourselves finishing 6th in the league and getting eliminated from the Champions League at the group stages.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Not developed in what way? Physically? Mentally? Does he need to be a size 11 to be a premier league footballer and he's only a size 10 and a half?

And no he's not the same as Lamps. Do you know what he's perfect for though? The double pivot. He can distribute the ball well, defend, win balls in the air and actually act in a composed manner unlike a certain Brazilian. He also chips in with the odd goal.

You bring up this old thing about experience. What type of things do you mean? Things like the importance of local derbies? Things like securing a two goal lead and not throwing them away? People talk about Lamps like he's a fucking mascot on Blockbusters rather than a footballer.

If we're going to keep pussyfooting around with youngsters and overpaying 'big names' then we might as well shut the academy and plant potatoes on the practice pitches.

Transition has to be handled slowly - yeah, because otherwise we might find ourselves finishing 6th in the league and getting eliminated from the Champions League at the group stages.

Lol #Angry