🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Frank Lampard

[communicate 2,703]

Lamp need to sort out our set pieces. He need to stop putting Christensen in the middle of the penalty box. 

Plus he also need to stop with this mistake and then you are out. 

[Special Juan 28,759]

Tomori and Mount offer nothing at all to this team, nothing.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, MoroccanBlue said:

Our possession play may had something to do with it. That and a recongised back line 

Yes, we had a lot of sterile possession under Sarri and Lampard does want us to play a lot quicker and all that but it's scary how we have lost that ability to maintain some sterile possession, even just for 2-3 minutes, to slow the game down when needed. We keep on wanting to play at 200 miles per hour and as a result, we don't control games in a calm manner and always risk turning them into a basketball match. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Mana said:

I thought I made it clear Lampard isn't the guy to take us forward, but I'm just saying we should not point at Lampard only at this. The players has been super crap.

I don't know what happened to Rudiger, I wanted him back for so long - only for me to bang my head on the wall with his defending.

If we are going to keep Lampard for next season, at least sack his coaching staff and bring staff that has solid experience, and know what they're doing. We cannot continue like this going to next season. We may get nice quality up front, but if the defense continues to be shocking like this, we will get nowhere.

The players have been crap, sure, but it's not entirely on them is it? Take for example our starting XI against Bayern vs the starting XI that played Barcelona in the R16 1st leg 2 years ago.

2017/18 - Courtois - Rudiger/Christensen/Azpi - Alonso/Kante/Fabregas/Moses - Hazard/Willian/Pedro

vs

2019/20 - Caballero - Rudiger/Christensen/Azpi - Alonso/Jorginho/Kovacic/James - Barkley/Mount/Giroud

Kante and Hazard aside, there's not much difference in the two XIs but the defensive organization was night and day. If the team is already struggling to score to win games, then at least make the team hard to beat but we don't do that, do we? We're so easy to score against and so easy to get at. Bournemouth should have scored 2-3 goals in the first 10-15 minutes today but thankfully, they didn't. But in the second half, they had 2-3 chances and they scored 2 goals, one of which was from a set piece and it's an issue that's been plaguing Lampard since Derby last season. 

[Tomo 21,751]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

Yes, we had a lot of sterile possession under Sarri and Lampard does want us to play a lot quicker and all that but it's scary how we have lost that ability to maintain some sterile possession, even just for 2-3 minutes, to slow the game down when needed. We keep on wanting to play at 200 miles per hour and as a result, we don't control games in a calm manner and always risk turning them into a basketball match. 

Thats exactly why Sarri slowed the play down after the Arsenal game, he knew full well he needed better tools for his football to work.

People screaming about how "boring" it was weren't seeing the bigger picture.

[communicate 2,703]

3 minutes ago, Mana said:

Look at Arsenal today. They have quality up front, including Aubameyang at his prime. Top goalscorer in the PL.

Against Olympiakos, he done a bicycle kick goal and that should have concluded the tie.

...only for their defense to feck everything up.

And that's why our defense needs major changes. They need to be binned. You cannot build a house without laying out the foundations. You win titles by having a rock solid defense.

Bin the lot of them. I'll spare James and maybe Tomori, but bin the lot of them if we want to start winning things.

We won epl with azpi Luiz Cahill at the back. 

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

Thats exactly why Sarri slowed the play down after the Arsenal game, he knew full well he needed better tools for his football to work.

People screaming about how "boring" it was weren't seeing the bigger picture.

But he did take it too far, no? Think you said the same, IIRC?

And he's encountering similar, if not the same issues now at Juventus and their fans aren't happy. 

[Tomo 21,751]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

But he did take it too far, no? Think you said the same, IIRC?

And he's encountering similar, if not the same issues now at Juventus and their fans aren't happy. 

At times in the winter, then he struck a decent balance in the last third of the season.

I can't really comment on his Juve side as I haven't watched them even once however I do know he's in a similar situation there in that he is taking over a previously solid shape first everything else second side.

Although I think this youth movement will benefit us more in the very long run I have no doubt that Sarri plus a transfer window would have had us comfortably in the top 4 this time round.

[MoroccanBlue 5,399]

Also explains why Conte opted for a more pragmatic/cowardly approach his second season. Both Sarri and Conte did their best to protect our fragile back line. Lampard's inexperience showing here. 

That said, it's hard to put a lot of fault on him given the gash we have. I would genuinely pay my own money to see the back of maybe 60% of our players. 

[communicate 2,703]

Just now, MoroccanBlue said:

Also explains why Conte opted for a more pragmatic/cowardly approach his second season. Both Sarri and Conte did their best to protect our fragile back line. Lampard's inexperience showing here. 

That said, it's hard to put a lot of fault on him given the gash we have. I would genuinely pay my own money to see the back of maybe 60% of our players. 

Nah that is not true. Conte 2nd season problem came because Costa >>>>>>> Morata 

[MoroccanBlue 5,399]

Just now, communicate said:

Nah that is not true. Conte 2nd season problem came because Costa >>>>>>> Morata 

He wanted Alex Sandro, Candreva, and Bonucci. Players who would've been direct upgrades on Alonso, Moses, and Cahill. 

It was clear as day Conte didn't trust our defenders. The lack of upgrades and introduction of gash like Zappacosta forced Conte to become more pragmatic. Especially when teams found us out. 

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

He wanted Alex Sandro, Candreva, and Bonucci. Players who would've been direct upgrades on Alonso, Moses, and Cahill. 

It was clear as day Conte didn't trust our defenders. The lack of upgrades and introduction of gash like Zappacosta forced Conte to become more pragmatic. Especially when teams found us out. 

Just because Conte wanted them, it doesn't mean they are any good. Candreva is your average workhorse (which I might argue we already have a few). Sandro hasn't pulled up any trees for some time now. Bonucci would have maybe been an upgrade but he was already 29/30 years old when we wanted him and it's debatable whether he would have thrived at the highest level coming to the Premier League at that age. 

Being pragmatic/conservative is just Conte's nature. Don't think it had anything to do with him not trusting the defenders, even if he wanted upgrades. He has gotten his players, for example, at Inter and yet, he still plays pragmatically with them. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,399]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Just because Conte wanted them, it doesn't mean they are any good. Candreva is your average workhorse (which I might argue we already have a few). Sandro hasn't pulled up any trees for some time now. Bonucci would have maybe been an upgrade but he was already 29/30 years old when we wanted him and it's debatable whether he would have thrived at the highest level coming to the Premier League at that age. 

Being pragmatic/conservative is just Conte's nature. Don't think it had anything to do with him not trusting the defenders, even if he wanted upgrades. He has gotten his players, for example, at Inter and yet, he still plays pragmatically with them. 

Why are you using hindsight? Sandro at the time was arguably one of the best left backs in the world. Same thing with Bonucci. Candreva was known as being one of the most consistent players in Italy as well at the time. It was clear as day Conte wanted improvements on our back five, regardless of age. 

Toward the end of the 2017 season, more and more clubs started finding us out. This led to Conte's viscous demands in the summer market, to which we only got Zappacosta on deadline day. It was a complete shift in terms of how we played given we played some great football that 2017 season. 2018 was a new level of cowardice that Mourinho would've been proud of and this was all down to Conte throwing his toys out the pram because he didn't fully trust his side to play the football he wanted. 

[Jase 43,479]

37 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Why are you using hindsight? Sandro at the time was arguably one of the best left backs in the world. Same thing with Bonucci. Candreva was known as being one of the most consistent players in Italy as well at the time. It was clear as day Conte wanted improvements on our back five, regardless of age. 

Toward the end of the 2017 season, more and more clubs started finding us out. This led to Conte's viscous demands in the summer market, to which we only got Zappacosta on deadline day. It was a complete shift in terms of how we played given we played some great football that 2017 season.

No one is saying Conte was wrong to wanting upgrades on the squad but let's not pretend like every target he wanted then were top quality. This is also the same manager who wanted Fernando Llorente for example.

Won't necessarily disagree with you on Sandro but given he hasn't pulled up any trees between then and now, I won't say it was a big blow we didn't get him but he would likely have been an upgrade on Alonso/Emerson. Don't think it was wrong to question Bonucci based on what I said previously. Candreva may have been consistent but that doesn't mean he was (or is) top quality. Even average players can be consistent.

44 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

2018 was a new level of cowardice that Mourinho would've been proud of and this was all down to Conte throwing his toys out the pram because he didn't fully trust his side to play the football he wanted. 

Did you say this back then or did you just come up with this theory all of a sudden? Conte gave up that season simply because he didn't get what he wanted. The board deserved criticism for not backing him then but it was still no reason for him to just give up. It was still the same squad that won the league in the previous season and he always found ways then to fix problems. Conte just didn't care anymore after in 2018 because he didn't get what he wanted, like a small kid who had his toys taken away from him. 

[Atomiswave 6,120]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

Look at Arsenal today. They have quality up front, including Aubameyang at his prime. Top goalscorer in the PL.

Against Olympiakos, he done a bicycle kick goal and that should have concluded the tie.

...only for their defense to feck everything up.

And that's why our defense needs major changes. They need to be binned. You cannot build a house without laying out the foundations. You win titles by having a rock solid defense.

Bin the lot of them. I'll spare James and maybe Tomori, but bin the lot of them if we want to start winning things.

Yup, you cant build shit without being able to defend. Even klopp and pep saw it coming.

[Henrique 9,133]

1 hour ago, Special Juan said:

Tomori and Mount offer nothing at all to this team, nothing.

This man is speaking sense.

[Henrique 9,133]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

Look at Arsenal today. They have quality up front, including Aubameyang at his prime. Top goalscorer in the PL.

Against Olympiakos, he done a bicycle kick goal and that should have concluded the tie.

...only for their defense to feck everything up.

And that's why our defense needs major changes. They need to be binned. You cannot build a house without laying out the foundations. You win titles by having a rock solid defense.

Bin the lot of them. I'll spare James and maybe Tomori, but bin the lot of them if we want to start winning things.

James and Tomori must learn mate. They are good enough to start game after game.

[OneMoSalah 9,098]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

But he did take it too far, no? Think you said the same, IIRC?

And he's encountering similar, if not the same issues now at Juventus and their fans aren't happy. 

Did you see how open we were when we lost the ball the first half of the season under Sarri? Even in that 18 game unbeaten run. I mean the Brighton and Arsenal games was a very very early indication of how open we were regardless of the style and how many goals we were scoring because the gaps between the midfield and defence were huge. And he saw this clearly hence why after we struggled for a bit we seemed.to finally click and went on that 15-20 match run in all competitions where we didnt lose.

Cesc said something that he stopped players from midfield making as many forward runs off the ball or something and our attacking play undoubtedly suffered as we didnt have that extra threat (also Hazard, Willian, Morata all at times throughout the season holding onto the ball far too long and didnt have the same selflessness to make runs off the ball in behind teams compared to what the likes of Mertens, Insigne, Callejon did at Naples and Pedro here) but we were definitely more compact as a team and didnt look as open without the ball.

People forget Sarri had 3 years at Napoli and they werent quite as consistent or very good in terms or how they played until the 2nd year which if he got here, as preciously mentioned by Tomo, I think he would have us doing better. I dont think he, Conte or the likes of an Allegri would have us doing worse. We have like 5 wins in 3 months. 

 

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, OneMoSalah said:

Did you see how open we were when we lost the ball the first half of the season under Sarri? Even in that 18 game unbeaten run. I mean the Brighton and Arsenal games was a very very early indication of how open we were regardless of the style and how many goals we were scoring because the gaps between the midfield and defence were huge. And he saw this clearly hence why after we struggled for a bit we seemed.to finally click and went on that 15-20 match run in all competitions where we didnt lose.

Cesc said something that he stopped players from midfield making as many forward runs off the ball or something and our attacking play undoubtedly suffered as we didnt have that extra threat (also Hazard, Willian, Morata all at times throughout the season holding onto the ball far too long and didnt have the same selflessness to make runs off the ball in behind teams compared to what the likes of Mertens, Insigne, Callejon did at Naples and Pedro here) but we were definitely more compact as a team and didnt look as open without the ball.

People forget Sarri had 3 years at Napoli and they werent quite as consistent or very good in terms or how they played until the 2nd year which if he got here, as preciously mentioned by Tomo, I think he would have us doing better. I dont think he, Conte or the likes of an Allegri would have us doing worse. We have like 5 wins in 3 months. 

Yes, I remember but Sarri did take it to the extreme with the sterile possession. Things only got interesting at times in the second half of the season when Loftus-Cheek and CHO provided some directness into the team. Otherwise, it was just endless passing without any attacking intent whatsoever. 

[SUNZ 155]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

This is Lampard's defensive record as a manager:

97 games

21 clean sheets

127 goals conceded

He might not have had any world class defenders but you can only blame individuals for so long. Like you said, we weren't great defensively last season but this season, it's a whole new level of shocking! And our defence lost only Luiz last summer but saw James and Tomori added into the team. Not much difference in the choices but the collective defending has been shambolic a lot of the times!

Lampard (and his staff) clearly cannot coach the team to be organised and solid off the ball. Yes we have bad defenders etc but the lack of good coaching only compounds the problem. He chops and changes the defenders and formation because he is merely gambling and hoping something works. He sticks with something until it fails and then he's on to the next formation and CB pairing until that fails and so on. It is rubbish management and I have seen right through his actions.