🇪🇸 Juan Mata

[Blue Armour 4,439]

Mata's central deployment is hurting Chelsea

Interesting take on that issue though it has to be said that valid points were made in the article.

So how do you allow Mata to roam freely on the wing AND provide protection to the full-back?

Simple. You play 4-3-3 with:

Cech

Back FOUR

MIKEL

Ramires-Oscar

Mata Hazard

Striker

[Leif 6,006]

I've been thinking for quite a while now that, in ways, Mata is holding back the development of our team on a whole, but I just can't bring myself to imagine him on the wing again (I hate it when players don't track back from wide positions) or out of the side completely as he's very quickly become one of my favourite all-time players somehow. Blegh. I just know and feel that Oscar has a higher ceiling than Mata, as does Hazard, but just... ayhsdiaydhisaudyahsid]ausidhsad

[Santiago. 1,500]

I've been thinking for quite a while now that, in ways, Mata is holding back the development of our team on a whole, but I just can't bring myself to imagine him on the wing again (I hate it when players don't track back from wide positions) or out of the side completely as he's very quickly become one of my favourite all-time players somehow. Blegh. I just know and feel that Oscar has a higher ceiling than Mata, as does Hazard, but just... ayhsdiaydhisaudyahsid]ausidhsad

Now in what ways does Mata, easily the best creative attacking midfielder in the league, hold back in this teams development as a whole? Would love to know.

[Leif 6,006]

Now in what ways does Mata, easily the best creative attacking midfielder in the league, hold back in this teams development as a whole? Would love to know.

He doesn't drop deep enough for starters. He makes it so that players like Ramires will be far more exposed when they wander up compared to if someone like Oscar, who should be developing in Mata's position, was there instead. When he plays central, far too much area is left open in the centre of the pitch for the opposition to exploit - like we saw vs. Manchester City. Yes, he's "DA BEZT ATTACKIN MIDFIELDER IN DA LEAGUE" but from a tactic point of view, having Mata in the centre can be horrible for the team - especially when someone like Oscar would flourish there and probably raise their game to a level even higher than Mata's. His position is that of an advanced midfielder - and he takes up the role of playmaker; where in fact he should only be taking on the responsibilities of an attacking midfielder.

[Blue Gino 377]

Barca play with Iniesta on the wing at times, I don't hear those fools complaining about how he's holding the team back.

[Leif 6,006]

Barca play with Iniesta on the wing at times, I don't hear those fools complaining about how he's holding the team back.

That's Barcelona playing probably the best attacking midfielder in the last decade, bar Zidane, in a wide position (but not playing as a traditional winger) against smaller teams with Xavi (perhaps joint best playmaker in world football) dictating the tempo and Messi being Messi. Apples and oranges.

[Blue Gino 377]

That's Barcelona playing probably the best attacking midfielder in the last decade, bar Zidane, in a wide position (but not playing as a traditional winger) against smaller teams with Xavi (perhaps joint best playmaker in world football) dictating the tempo and Messi being Messi. Apples and oranges.

Obviously Mata's not good enough for you in this team. Fair enough.

[Blue Gino 377]

All I know is we didn't have shit for creativity until he came along and despite countlessly bailing this team's asses out time and time again, for multiple managers, bloggers are starting little fires and whispers like the link posted a while back about how he's a weak link. How come Hazard is fucking untouchable? These players aren't perfect. All I know is he was the best thing to happen to this club when he arrived. Now two more attacking mids arrive and suddenly he's keeping the club from becoming better? These two arrived and so far this club hasn't won jack shit and yet Juan is suddenly the weak link? I don't think so. He'd have double the assists right now if Torres wasn't the striker, maybe then there would be more goals and Juan's defensive inefficiencies wouldn't even be discussed because Chelsea would be winning games more comfortably. There's flaws in this squad for sure I just don't think Mata is the one to focus on. Instability with managers and pissing away 50 million dollars on a player who has given up on himself are the big ones for me.

[Santiago. 1,500]

He doesn't drop deep enough for starters. He makes it so that players like Ramires will be far more exposed when they wander up compared to if someone like Oscar, who should be developing in Mata's position, was there instead. When he plays central, far too much area is left open in the centre of the pitch for the opposition to exploit - like we saw vs. Manchester City. Yes, he's "DA BEZT ATTACKIN MIDFIELDER IN DA LEAGUE" but from a tactic point of view, having Mata in the centre can be horrible for the team - especially when someone like Oscar would flourish there and probably raise their game to a level even higher than Mata's. His position is that of an advanced midfielder - and he takes up the role of playmaker; where in fact he should only be taking on the responsibilities of an attacking midfielder.

First off, Manchester City absolutely dominated the midfield due to the horrific partnership Rafa employed of Lampard/Mikel and the stupidity of putting Ramires at LW yet again in a game that was easily there for the taking. Our attacking players could barley lead transition FFS due to the weaknesses in our central area. If there is any aspect that holds this team back, it's the lack of true holding midfielders.

Mata FLOURISHES when he is roaming and absolutely excels at it when there are midfielders below him that can keep possession and lead transition and to this day some of his best football was still at Valencia. Hazard and Oscar are facing the same issues, so scapegoating Mata is this situation, when Hazard and Oscar have both made mistakes due to this error of tactics is unreasonable and down right laughable. It is down to tactics, not to one fucking player who has literally kept us even breathing in competitive football. Saying Mata doesn't drop deep is yet again ridiculous because I can name you the countless times where he fucking had to drop to the defensive area just to bring the ball up due to our midfielders not being able to lead transition in an appropriate manner, where, yet again, lies the problem. 4 -2-3-1 needs to be abandoned asap.

Hazard-----------------Mata

-------Oscar--Ramires-----

------------Mikel--------------

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

He doesn't drop deep enough for starters. He makes it so that players like Ramires will be far more exposed when they wander up compared to if someone like Oscar, who should be developing in Mata's position, was there instead. When he plays central, far too much area is left open in the centre of the pitch for the opposition to exploit - like we saw vs. Manchester City. Yes, he's "DA BEZT ATTACKIN MIDFIELDER IN DA LEAGUE" but from a tactic point of view, having Mata in the centre can be horrible for the team - especially when someone like Oscar would flourish there and probably raise their game to a level even higher than Mata's. His position is that of an advanced midfielder - and he takes up the role of playmaker; where in fact he should only be taking on the responsibilities of an attacking midfielder.

Mata does drop back. In fact, he often drops back further than Oscar. The issue is that he doesn't defend very well. I understand in certain teams under certain managers, the system is more important than anything and because Mata drifts, he might not fit into that sort of system. However, it's not like that in every system. Man City won the league last year in a large part to David SIlva who played a similar role to the one Mata plays for us.The fundamental question right now is are we better with Mata in the middle or not and I think the answer is very clearly yes. Oscar has enormous potential, but apart from his defensive work, he's worse than Mata in every way right now. De-emphasizing your best player for someone who has potential is ridiculous for a team who actually cares about winning. And many advanced midfielders also act as playmakers. Mata gives us results. In less than two years, he has won us tons of points. If some manager wants to come in and change the system around, fine, but to move Mata now would make no sense. Also, the defensive aspect of Mata and Hazard is going to be problematic anywhere. Is it better to have Mata and Hazard on the wings than Mata in the centre? The centre of the pitch has more defensive cover and you can afford a poorer defensive player there. A winger that doesn't track back is more dangerous IMO.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Mata is holding us back? realllllly?! we would be below fucking Liverpool without his contribution so far this season. But of course he's not played well for a couple games now so these articles and comments are not surprising, when he bangs in a few now you will only hear about how he's the best player in the league and we should never sell him..

[Blue Armour 4,439]

Mata does drop back. In fact, he often drops back further than Oscar. The issue is that he doesn't defend very well. I understand in certain teams under certain managers, the system is more important than anything and because Mata drifts, he might not fit into that sort of system. However, it's not like that in every system. Man City won the league last year in a large part to David SIlva who played a similar role to the one Mata plays for us.The fundamental question right now is are we better with Mata in the middle or not and I think the answer is very clearly yes. Oscar has enormous potential, but apart from his defensive work, he's worse than Mata in every way right now. De-emphasizing your best player for someone who has potential is ridiculous for a team who actually cares about winning. And many advanced midfielders also act as playmakers. Mata gives us results. In less than two years, he has won us tons of points. If some manager wants to come in and change the system around, fine, but to move Mata now would make no sense. Also, the defensive aspect of Mata and Hazard is going to be problematic anywhere. Is it better to have Mata and Hazard on the wings than Mata in the centre? The centre of the pitch has more defensive cover and you can afford a poorer defensive player there. A winger that doesn't track back is more dangerous IMO.

But what about in a 4-3-3? There the RCM/LCM can provide more cover for the full-back when needed...That's how it worked when we used to play Anelka on the wing.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

But what about in a 4-3-3? There the RCM/LCM can provide more cover for the full-back when needed...That's how it worked when we used to play Anelka on the wing.

Those teams were generally very good defensively. We had a great back 4 and players like Essien, Mikel, Ramires (not to mention Kalou who, if nothing else, did his defensive duties). Besides, we were smashing lots of teams then. If we start scoring 5 and 6 goals all the time, then we don't exactly have to worry about defensive shape. The problem with the 4-3-3 for us is that our two best players this year have pretty easily been Hazard and Mata and the 4-3-3 makes them less important. De-emphasizing your best players just doesn't make sense to me.

[Spike 12,049]

People shouldn't consider Mata a midfielder. He is a foward, he is deep lying foward like Del Piero or Totti.

[Spike 12,049]

Barca play with Iniesta on the wing at times, I don't hear those fools complaining about how he's holding the team back.

I do.

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football/barca/

[The only place to be 11,313]

Mata does drop back. In fact, he often drops back further than Oscar. The issue is that he doesn't defend very well. I understand in certain teams under certain managers, the system is more important than anything and because Mata drifts, he might not fit into that sort of system. However, it's not like that in every system. Man City won the league last year in a large part to David SIlva who played a similar role to the one Mata plays for us.The fundamental question right now is are we better with Mata in the middle or not and I think the answer is very clearly yes. Oscar has enormous potential, but apart from his defensive work, he's worse than Mata in every way right now. De-emphasizing your best player for someone who has potential is ridiculous for a team who actually cares about winning. And many advanced midfielders also act as playmakers. Mata gives us results. In less than two years, he has won us tons of points. If some manager wants to come in and change the system around, fine, but to move Mata now would make no sense. Also, the defensive aspect of Mata and Hazard is going to be problematic anywhere. Is it better to have Mata and Hazard on the wings than Mata in the centre? The centre of the pitch has more defensive cover and you can afford a poorer defensive player there. A winger that doesn't track back is more dangerous IMO.

The view that I take, is that Oscar has the potential to be one of the best players in the world. Already he's shown glimpses of just how good he can be especially in the Champions League, but also at international level. Now that's not say say Mata hasn't been great for us because he has but this is about incorporating both players into the same team whilst getting the best from each of them.

If we're going to look at Oscar as a player we're going to keep around then I think we have to make a commitment to him and build the team around him. That's a gamble, but one I think has a tremendous upside and also allows Mata to play on the wing still.

What Mata needs to do in that instance is work on his workrate and perhaps even his fitness. How many match threads do people make comments about him needing to be rested because he looks a bit tired? I'd say at least 35-40% of them. At some point that stops being a quirk and starts becoming a hinderance - the same hasn't been said anywhere near as much about Oscar.

I would say this is another of our first-world problems like the Cech/Courtois debate but this is much more fundamental to the way the team is going to play in the next 5 years. We're talking about the heartbeat of the team here and which player serves us best going forward.

We spent £20 million on Oscar's potential - at some point you actually have to try and turn that potential into reality and I think the game against West Brom showed just what he can do. Yes he should've finished those chances but it was encouraging to see him get in those positions, arriving late into the box, splitting defenders and finding space and even creating his own shooting opportunities from the edge of the area. Maybe it's something we leave until the summer, but at some point we are going to have to choose especially if we get a coach like Jose who likes players to do their jobs defensively with the odd exception.

[Muzchap 8,966]

The view that I take, is that Oscar has the potential to be one of the best players in the world. Already he's shown glimpses of just how good he can be especially in the Champions League, but also at international level. Now that's not say say Mata hasn't been great for us because he has but this is about incorporating both players into the same team whilst getting the best from each of them.

If we're going to look at Oscar as a player we're going to keep around then I think we have to make a commitment to him and build the team around him. That's a gamble, but one I think has a tremendous upside and also allows Mata to play on the wing still.

What Mata needs to do in that instance is work on his workrate and perhaps even his fitness. How many match threads do people make comments about him needing to be rested because he looks a bit tired? I'd say at least 35-40% of them. At some point that stops being a quirk and starts becoming a hinderance - the same hasn't been said anywhere near as much about Oscar.

I would say this is another of our first-world problems like the Cech/Courtois debate but this is much more fundamental to the way the team is going to play in the next 5 years. We're talking about the heartbeat of the team here and which player serves us best going forward.

We spent £20 million on Oscar's potential - at some point you actually have to try and turn that potential into reality and I think the game against West Brom showed just what he can do. Yes he should've finished those chances but it was encouraging to see him get in those positions, arriving late into the box, splitting defenders and finding space and even creating his own shooting opportunities from the edge of the area. Maybe it's something we leave until the summer, but at some point we are going to have to choose especially if we get a coach like Jose who likes players to do their jobs defensively with the odd exception.

Agree - I see no problem with Mata/Oscar playing for the same role - and being rotated next season.

We have relied on Mata way too much and we burn the guy to pieces - if he isn't playing, we ain't...

It's healthy to have competition for places and both Oscar and Mata can play other positions too - so will get plenty of play time...

Lets see what Mou thinks

[CHOULO19 24,332]

So how do you allow Mata to roam freely on the wing AND provide protection to the full-back?

Simple. You play 4-3-3 with:

Cech

Back FOUR

MIKEL

Ramires-Oscar

Mata Hazard

Striker

It's amazing how our managers insist on playing 4-2-3-1 when 4-3-3- would solve so many of our problems.

[English Freak 456]

All I know is we didn't have shit for creativity until he came along and despite countlessly bailing this team's asses out time and time again, for multiple managers, bloggers are starting little fires and whispers like the link posted a while back about how he's a weak link. How come Hazard is fucking untouchable? These players aren't perfect. All I know is he was the best thing to happen to this club when he arrived. Now two more attacking mids arrive and suddenly he's keeping the club from becoming better? These two arrived and so far this club hasn't won jack shit and yet Juan is suddenly the weak link? I don't think so. He'd have double the assists right now if Torres wasn't the striker, maybe then there would be more goals and Juan's defensive inefficiencies wouldn't even be discussed because Chelsea would be winning games more comfortably. There's flaws in this squad for sure I just don't think Mata is the one to focus on. Instability with managers and pissing away 50 million dollars on a player who has given up on himself are the big ones for me.

But wasn't Torres one of the reasons behind Mata choosing Chelsea in the first place?

The Spanish connection has helped us gain a quality player in Mata....just like Arteta used his Spanish roots to help Arsenal sign Cazorla and Monreal.

[Blue Armour 4,439]

It's amazing how our managers insist on playing 4-2-3-1 when 4-3-3- would solve so many of our problems.

Its true, but like Torontochelsea suggested, they might feel it would reduce Mata and Hazards involvement in the build-up play. Its also unfortunate that Rafa's a 4-2-3-1 manager. I think he did try a 4-3-3 once (which failed) but with the wrong personnel.

Those teams were generally very good defensively. We had a great back 4 and players like Essien, Mikel, Ramires (not to mention Kalou who, if nothing else, did his defensive duties). Besides, we were smashing lots of teams then. If we start scoring 5 and 6 goals all the time, then we don't exactly have to worry about defensive shape. The problem with the 4-3-3 for us is that our two best players this year have pretty easily been Hazard and Mata and the 4-3-3 makes them less important. De-emphasizing your best players just doesn't make sense to me.

Its a sacrifice perhaps, but that depends on the player in that position right? When Anelka played, he also served as one of the creative focal points for the team (I remember in 09-10 when our build-up play suffered when he was out injured for a couple of weeks)..I think Mata can perform a similar role (perhaps even better)...Its not like say, playing Kalou and giving him a very specific set of instructions to follow in the match, thereby restricting his role. (which is good for Kalou)