🇪🇸 Juan Mata

[Dion 2,476]

Honestly I think Mata is better. But it's not miles apart. They're quite close actually. I can see why people would rate Kagawa higher though. He's more of an all around player than Mata.

[The Skipper 20,609]

It was pretty disappointing when he moved to United. I knew Fergie would never him use him in the proper way. The cultural clash and difficulty in playing along with what he was told to do, made him suffer.

Agreed. Fergie never knew how to use a pure number 10 IMO. He's more of a 'second striker' manager - likes a technical striker up front to drop deep and connect play.

[Stats 7,142]

The fact that people kind off forget how good Kagawa was when he was at Dortmund makes you realize how fast football is. Don't want to get extensively into the debate, but if we still had Mata, I would have traded for Kagawa.

It's hilarious that people think Mata's light years ahead of Shinji and Silva...

Ok, so people should remember how good Torres was at Liverpool then? If we do we should use that excuse to still say he is up there with the best strikers in the world. Football moves on. Also find me quotes where people say Mata is much better than Silva please. Please do it.

Both players have strong qualities. Depending on the team you are building, it's not ludicrous to say Kagawa is better than Mata. It's a respectable opinion and I don't think you should take offense to it.

They have strong qualities but Mata is better. I am not taking offense to it. What annoys me is when people see Mata have one bad game and conclude he is an average player when that is rubbish. United were just an utter mess last season and tbh he still added his fair share of goals and assists. Kagawa has been poor in a United t-shirt. Yes, I do believe it is ludicrous to state Kagawa is better. He was good in the Bundesliga that is it. In the Prem he has been poor. Would it not be ludicrous to say Torres is better than Costa then?

NO.

Reus was not on bvb until 2012... Lewda was a no name striker that scored 9 goals his first season and than 30 the season after ....

They had a bunch of kids that became very good, not a bunch of guys that were very good...

Juan Mata cost United an arm and a leg, kagawa didn't. It's the same as in real life, if you pay 40 dollars for something, rather than 10 are you going to make sure the item purchase for 10 succeeds or the one for 40? United already messed up with Fellaini in the transfer market and couldn't afford another screw up... Why does Torres play so much? Im sure the money tag/contract has a lot to do with it, moreso than his current form.

Mata was in a poor team for a short while and while he had his poor moments he contributed with more goals and assists than Kagawa has probably done in his whole United career. It just is not going to work with Kagawa at United. Kagawa was good in the Bundesliga. Below average in the prem. Mata is the better player. It is as simple as that. I don't pay attention to what players done in the past. Kagawa performed at Dortmund like 3-4 years ago right? What has he done since coming to the prem huh?.....

I rest my case.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Ok, so people should remember how good Torres was at Liverpool then? If we do we should use that excuse to still say he is up there with the best strikers in the world. Football moves on. Also find me quotes where people say Mata is much better than Silva please. Please do it.

As I said, I don't want to get into any debate. I stated an opinion. You are free to disagree. You can think Mata is better than anyone, doesn't necessarily mean people will agree with you.

[Korea 734]

Mata was in a poor team for a short while and while he had his poor moments he contributed with more goals and assists than Kagawa has probably done in his whole United career. It just is not going to work with Kagawa at United. Kagawa was good in the Bundesliga. Below average in the prem. Mata is the better player. It is as simple as that. I don't pay attention to what players done in the past. Kagawa performed at Dortmund like 3-4 years ago right? What has he done since coming to the prem huh?.....

I rest my case.

Mata scored 6 goals in his united career.

So, did kagawa...

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Shinji under Jupp if he had moved to Bayern would have been pretty interesting though.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Ok, so people should remember how good Torres was at Liverpool then? If we do we should use that excuse to still say he is up there with the best strikers in the world. Football moves on. Also find me quotes where people say Mata is much better than Silva please. Please do it.

You can't compare Kagawa's situation to the Torres one. Kagawa was frozen out at United and never properly used and the system in United never favoured him. He never ever got an extensive run in the team or at the #10 position. IMO there's nothing wrong with anyone preferring Mata over Kagawa or vice versa. They've both been excellent when used in the right system and when they play regularly. Actually Kagawa's situation at United is quite similar to Mata's here last season, Mata was very average for us because he didn't play extensively and wasn't used correctly by Mourinho (to suit his strengths). You could say the same about Kagawa at United.

Mata isn't light years ahead of Kagawa at all, that's overrating Mata.

[Rambo 1,729]

They have strong qualities but Mata is better. I am not taking offense to it. What annoys me is when people see Mata have one bad game and conclude he is an average player when that is rubbish. United were just an utter mess last season and tbh he still added his fair share of goals and assists. Kagawa has been poor in a United t-shirt. Yes, I do believe it is ludicrous to state Kagawa is better. He was good in the Bundesliga that is it. In the Prem he has been poor. Would it not be ludicrous to say Torres is better than Costa then?

No need to be frustrated to have to compare Mata-Kagawa to Torres-Costa, now THAT is ludicrous. IMO it's not as 'simple as that' to say Mata is the better player by a clear cut. By no means is Mata an average player but I think the members here were just alluding to the fact that he is poor defensively and doesn't offer much when he's not on the ball.

[Stats 7,142]

Mata scored 6 goals in his united career.

So, did kagawa...

How long has Mata been there? 6 months or so? By the end of this season or even Christmas we will see whose stats look better ok? Deal?

You can't compare Kagawa's situation to the Torres one. Kagawa was frozen out at United and never properly used and the system in United never favoured him. He never ever got an extensive run in the team or at the #10 position. IMO there's nothing wrong with anyone preferring Mata over Kagawa or vice versa. They've both been excellent when used in the right system and when they play regularly. Actually Kagawa's situation at United is quite similar to Mata's here last season, Mata was very average for us because he didn't play extensively and wasn't used correctly by Mourinho (to suit his strengths). You could say the same about Kagawa at United.

Mata isn't light years ahead of Kagawa at all, that's overrating Mata.

But there must be a reason why he does not seem to be favoured by Ferguson, Moyes and possibly LVG. Kagawa himself said he can play left or in the centre. He was given those chances. Maybe not as much but he has never impressed and I doubt he will. I just don't think he is suited to the PL. If he goes back to the less physical Bundesliga you probably will see him perform again.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Sad how Mourinho can't have 'reasons' to keep out Mata though..

[The Skipper 20,609]

How long has Mata been there? 6 months or so? By the end of this season or even Christmas we will see whose stats look better ok? Deal?

But there must be a reason why he does not seem to be favoured by Ferguson, Moyes and possibly LVG. Kagawa himself said he can play left or in the centre. He was given those chances. Maybe not as much but he has never impressed and I doubt he will. I just don't think he is suited to the PL. If he goes back to the less physical Bundesliga you probably will see him perform again.

Fergie and Moyes never really used a pure #10 in their system anyway so it doesn't matter. About LVG, we don't know yet whether Kagawa isn't favoured or not. It's only the start of the season.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Your a utter clown if you reckon Kagawa is better than Mata. What has Kagawa done since coming to the prem? Can't believe people are making assumptions on one game. When they have their proper WB playing, RVP comes back from injury and actualy centre backs you will see a more organised team. Mata started slowly at United last season but ended well. It is just the start. They have things to work on but I think he will come good. The PL is played over 38 games, not 1. Jesus Christ. Some of the fickle opinions I see on here really pisses me of. It will take one or 2 games for people to change their minds and think he is a quality player again.

No-one is saying he isn't a quality player.

But he has glaring holes in his game (defensively and workrate-wise) which led to him being sold by us, and now United fans are starting to realise the same thing.

People need to realise that whilst he might be a magician with the ball, footballers spend most of their time out of possession and what they do then is just as important as what they do when they do have it.

[Spike 12,049]

how am i being racist? He clearly overrates Asian players.

"why dont you stick to your asian football you fucking clown? Every Asian player in europe isnt the second coming of christ."

For starters Korea is Korean. Korea is a small part of Asia. To insinuate that Korea is a fanboy of Asian footballers and Asian football in general is quite ignorant.

Does Korea watch the Israeli League? Does he overrate Asian players like Arda Turan and Henrik Mkhitaryan?

[5354 204]

Why are you guys making pointless comparisons?

The 2 players' situation in EPL are so vastly different that comparing them are pointless.

Fact - both are great footballers

Fact - both are in Manchester United

Fact - LVG determines who get to play

Fact - IT IS ONLY THE FIRST DAY OF THE SEASON! FOR GOD SAKE! How do you know if Kagawa will not be able to earn his place in the starting line up?!

[5354 204]

On a side note, did Mata slim down? He looks different from last season.

[Dion 2,476]

It's really true that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Whilst browsing Redcafe I found people who rate Oscar a lot higher than Kagawa and very close to Mata. They think Hazard will definitely be at the bare minimum a player of Ribery's and Robben's caliber, if not Messi/Ronaldo level. They're truly scared of Costa, Hazard, Oscar, Schürrle, Willian, Fabregas and Matic. And they also think we'll win the league comfortably, with a few games to spare

Relevant:

"It just hit me, and I don't know why I'm late to the party here...but Chelsea are going to dominate this season aren't they?

They've improved their team brilliantly this summer."

-

"Don't think they'll 'walk' it but I think they'll win, and pretty comfortably, with like a couple of games to spare.

I think having Matic completely settled alongside Fabregas in midfield, with Hazard, Oscar and Schürrle in front of them and a competent CF (I don't rate Diego Costa that highly, but I think he'll be fine for them with the formation they play, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Drogba still doing a job when called upon) makes them a really strong unit. Cahill/Terry is a strong partnership, not the best in European football but very solid, their fullbacks are good and they've got a top keeper, and Mourinho will be extremely focused.

I think last year, there was a bit of unrest with all the Mata stuff during the first half and José seeming less motivated in the second part of the season, and yet they still fared well. I think this season they'll be even more competitive."

-

"It was only preseason, yes, but it doesn't look as though Costa is going to flop and struggle to adapt to his new team like the vast majority thought does it? Everyone saw that he had the physique and skill set to fit the PL like a glove but people are/were still wondering if he'd keep up his scoring form.

I've seen highlights of his preseason and he got 4 goals and 2 assists and looks like he's been playing with their team for years. Already looks totally settled.

Hazard was the most creative player in the league last season statistically I believe and now with Fabregas, a LB who actually gets forward, and Willian and Schürrle with a seasons experience under their belts their attack should be frightening and scoring goals against parked buses shouldn't be a problem."

:eyebrows: :eyebrows:

ps: a bit off-topic, I'm sorry.

[Stats 7,142]

No need to be frustrated to have to compare Mata-Kagawa to Torres-Costa, now THAT is ludicrous. IMO it's not as 'simple as that' to say Mata is the better player by a clear cut. By no means is Mata an average player but I think the members here were just alluding to the fact that he is poor defensively and doesn't offer much when he's not on the ball.

No-one is saying he isn't a quality player.

But he has glaring holes in his game (defensively and workrate-wise) which led to him being sold by us, and now United fans are starting to realise the same thing.

People need to realise that whilst he might be a magician with the ball, footballers spend most of their time out of possession and what they do then is just as important as what they do when they do have it.

I am not defending Mata's flaws. But I just simply don't agree that Kagawa is better that is all. Korea has basically mocked Mata because of his performance today. They were missing tons of players and they need to integrate into the new system. Even if people don't necessarily think Mata is better than Kagawa by miles, I don't agree with anyone who can believe Kagawa is better.

I am definitely agreeing with his flaws. If you ask him to defend it limits his attacking game and he tires out. But when used effectively he is a quality player. When RVP returns and United have a more balanced team there is going to be so much different views. But it is like Jekyll and Hyde on here. We wait for one player to perform and some will salute him, stating this is what we missed etc. Then one bad game, all of a sudden: "this is why he was sold", "does not influence the game" etc....

But yes I agree with both of your comments about his defensive side but I don't agree with people making judgments after their first game of the season. First game of last season, City lost 3-2 to Cardiff and Silva was largely ineffective. But how good was he as the games went on and they won the league. It happens all over the forum. Not just the Mata thread. People make knee-jerk reactions rather than realising it is a 38 game season and we are at game 1.

[NiclasCFC 2,582]

"why dont you stick to your asian football you fucking clown? Every Asian player in europe isnt the second coming of christ."

For starters Korea is Korean. Korea is a small part of Asia. To insinuate that Korea is a fanboy of Asian footballers and Asian football in general is quite ignorant.

Does Korea watch the Israeli League? Does he overrate Asian players like Arda Turan and Henrik Mkhitaryan?

so @Stats, is also racist for liking my post?

[Spike 12,049]

so @Stats, is also racist for liking my post?

Nice sidestep of the issue. Divert the attention to something or someone else.

This is off topic and this shall not be discussed any further in this topic.

[NiclasCFC 2,582]

Nice sidestep of the issue. Divert the attention to something or someone else.

This is off topic and this shall not be discussed any further in this topic.

Then pm me the answer because i would like to know.