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Spike

3. Marcos Alonso

Started by Spike,

942 posts in this topic

He is a good goalscorer, but that's like a central forward having good defensive awareness. It could be useful, but how many times would he get himself in a position to score from that position? Would always prefer someone who is better at crossing, especially with having heading maestro in Alvaro.

Mufassir08 likes this

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I understand his bad points but why is it do you think that both Alonso and Moses are thought of better by peeps outside of Chelsea (or maybe in here I dunno) than we do.

Media,pudits etc all love them.

I'm worried that IF we bring in Sandro (who is only 1 step up on stats lists than Alonso) that he wont fit in/gel/handle the PL etc etc Or Telles to that matter.

Are we being too hard on him.

Cause I really dont mind him for most of the time.

Amblève. and bigbluewillie like this

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6 hours ago, Unionjack said:

I understand his bad points but why is it do you think that both Alonso and Moses are thought of better by peeps outside of Chelsea (or maybe in here I dunno) than we do.

Media,pudits etc all love them.

I'm worried that IF we bring in Sandro (who is only 1 step up on stats lists than Alonso) that he wont fit in/gel/handle the PL etc etc Or Telles to that matter.

Are we being too hard on him.

Cause I really dont mind him for most of the time.

Don't watch them for 90 minutes a game like we do. Especially with Alonso who it is easy to rate if you just watch MOTD.

MrExcalibur100 likes this

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A very wide gulf separates Alonso and Moses IMO. Don't personally know anyone who rates Moses and I'm not a fan of his game either - not to mention he's very injury-prone. 

Alonso on the other hand is a good player; one who we could move very easily IMO if we wanted to. 

Personally, I think replacing alonso with Santro would be a huge mistake. I'm not saying that Alonso is better than Sandro, but he's not far behind, albeit with completely diff characteristics.

The squad has so many other weaknesses that spending a lot of money to improve the one position we actually have some quality, which often gives an edge (aka goals), would be silly.

Unionjack and Amblève. like this

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A very wide gulf separates Alonso and Moses IMO. Don't personally know anyone who rates Moses and I'm not a fan of his game either - not to mention he's very injury-prone. 
Alonso on the other hand is a good player; one who we could move very easily IMO if we wanted to. 
Personally, I think replacing alonso with Santro would be a huge mistake. I'm not saying that Alonso is better than Sandro, but he's not far behind, albeit with completely diff characteristics.
The squad has so many other weaknesses that spending a lot of money to improve the one position we actually have some quality, which often gives an edge (aka goals), would be silly.
Alonso just isn't mobile enough for whilst Moses can run for days. Ability might even be second to that when WB's are being discussed.

Also, we have to remember Moses is a winger by trade and not a great one for that matter.

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IMO if we are going to continue with 3:5:2, we desperately need top central midfielder then. That should be priority. Im not talking about good one, but realy realy good one.

In 3:5:2 we "lose" one winger, meaning less dynamic upfront, and that gives more workload on wingbacks who have to provide width and support for Eden and Morata, but more importantly, core of our play goes from trio Eden Morata Pedro to Eden and MIDFIELD. And our midfielders bar Kante (and even he isnt realy good in possesion) are average. 

I never liked 3:5:2 and I was hoping Conte wont play any system with 3 at the back. But 3:4:3, I realy loved last season. Going to 3:5:2 this year, I dont like it at all. As I said we dont have Pedro/Willian in this formation and all the workload in attack goes to only Eden. Because despite we have in 3:5:2 extra midfielder, we dont have any quality midfielders to actualy make that difference. 

Therefore midfielder should be absolute priority. Im talking about Modric, Vidal class of midfielders. 

Juve had Pirlo, Pogba and Vidal plus Marchisio for that midfield trio and even then I didnt like their system because it had many flaws. But that midfielde was quality, not to mention they had top defence and quality striker in Tevez. And yet they were still poor outside italy in that system.

Back in chelsea 2004-2010 people say Drogba, Terry, Lamps,...I dont agree that was the reason for success. We had Lamps, Ballack, Makelele, Essien in midfield. Good midfield is the core fundation for any quality side. Now we have Kante who is comparable to those above, but also Cesc who is shit under pressure, Bakayoko who cant control the ball all of sudden and Barkley who had yet to prove himself.

In the end, I hope we dont plan on continuing 3:5:2 and its just temporary. I would love to see us go back to 4:3:3 eventualy. 

As for Marcos, he is valuable with his goals and that should not be underestimated, but we still need a good wingback. Marcos is good footballer, but wingback has to be quick, good defender and good attacker. Marcos is just the later.

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He can score great goals, granted. Yet how does it equate to Hume being a great wingback. 3-5-2 means the basic quality that a wingback should have is he should be able to cover the whole of the left or right side and that too fast. Moses might not be the most technically gifted but he has good stamina, and could keep running for hours. Alonso on the other hand doesn't have as much speed, and that's problematic when he goes up against speedy wingers

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11 hours ago, manpe said:

They don't watch and scrutinize us every game. A lot of such opinions are formed from highlights or selective memory, and he grabs the highlight reels with his goals and free-kicks - absolutely tertiary characteristics for a wing-back, a good bonus. You don't hear many people talk about anything else but his goalscoring record for a defender when they praise him, they don't analyze his defensive or possession game, both of which could be much better and would contribute more in general than the odd goals.

Odd goal?! He’s got 6 this season and very important ones at that: like the only goal we scored against Soton. The one goal we could score from open play against arsenal. 

He has 2 MotM for us this season alone. I know, Matic had several and it did not help him around here.

Scoring goals is hard :) and they change games! that’s why they pay so much to players who can do that consistently. R Carlos made a career out of that - Alonso has far better technique (yes I’ve watched R.Carlos play ... live too).

are we going to erase his aerial contribution, defense and attack, because it’s tertiary for a WB? Perhaps having Alonso heading the ball in our box covers for azpi who does not have the stature to win headers (which is primary for a cb)?

agree to disagree on his overall game which I think is pretty good esp around technique passing and first touch.

The club and the manager wanted him just the way he is. I cannot imagine that they are disppointed by his contribution so far,considering his characteristics as a player were well known beforehand.

Amblève. likes this

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21 minutes ago, Robguima said:

are we going to erase his aerial contribution, defense and attack, because it’s tertiary for a WB? Perhaps having Alonso heading the ball in our box covers for azpi who does not have the stature to win headers (which is primary for a cb)?

agree to disagree on his overall game which I think is pretty good esp around technique passing and first touch.

I wouldn't call aerial contribution tertiary for a WB, rather secondary. :) It doesn't cover Azpi, because if the ball comes to Azpi's zone there is nothing a player playing on the other side can do. It balances the defensive line, yes. And I feel you are giving too little credit to Azpi, he's better in the air than his height suggests, I think he easily wins over half of his headers thanks to superior positioning and strength (f.ex. Lukaku was absolutely his bitch on 2nd floor). I'm not worried about Azpi's aerial play at all, but I sometimes am worried about Alonso's lack of speed and ability to recover for example.

I don't disagree that he is "pretty good", our team as a whole is pretty good. But I want us to aim for very good, and that starts with reducing the roles of pretty good players.

Unionjack likes this

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7 hours ago, manpe said:

I wouldn't call aerial contribution tertiary for a WB, rather secondary. :) It doesn't cover Azpi, because if the ball comes to Azpi's zone there is nothing a player playing on the other side can do. It balances the defensive line, yes. And I feel you are giving too little credit to Azpi, he's better in the air than his height suggests, I think he easily wins over half of his headers thanks to superior positioning and strength (f.ex. Lukaku was absolutely his bitch on 2nd floor). I'm not worried about Azpi's aerial play at all, but I sometimes am worried about Alonso's lack of speed and ability to recover for example.

I don't disagree that he is "pretty good", our team as a whole is pretty good. But I want us to aim for very good, and that starts with reducing the roles of pretty good players.

In set-pieces, Alonso plays fairly centralized, presumably to balance out our defense. No, I think Azpi is a terrific defender and "decent" in the air (for his height), but if I am Giroud and need to attack one of our CB aerially, I know which one I'd pick. Lukaku is really not a good example... ;)

We just disagree on the pretty good, as I think Alonso is good to very good on his day. Reckon we just should upgrade in other areas first, as there are far deeper weaknesses in other areas of the pitch. And more important ones too. Even though I don't share the view that Eden is a victim of the overall poor quality of the squad (esp attack), I will daresay he was happier when Oscar was around, yes even with all his limitations.

 

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23 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

He's just a slow slow player.

 

His goals hide the fact that he's painfully average as a wingback in this system.

He is already slow to begin with and when he's not mentally on it, he is even slower and dare I say, shittier.

ja1 likes this

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Terrible today, and on a bad day Alonso really creates a lot of defensive vulnerability. Can’t believe he was getting roasted by Schelotto on that left hand side. Emerson can’t come through soon enough. 

ja1 and bigbluewillie like this

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We all know Marcos isn't that great at defending.. and I mean he's also not some god going forward.

But I really really like him because of his attitude and character.

Sideshow Luiz likes this

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1 hour ago, yuvala said:

We all know Marcos isn't that great at defending.. and I mean he's also not some god going forward.

But I really really like him because of his attitude and character.

Have to say I miss the likability factor Alonso seems to have with others, due to his well known past mistakes. Moses on other hand, with his story, for me makes him a bit likable. Slightly ironic because I'd say other supporters are less endeared to him.

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