Oscar

[nono 791]

People only remember the good and forget all the bad regarding Mata. Mata is very good when he has the ball at this feet. However, if he doesn't it is as if you are playing with 10 men. I don't think I've ever seen a player with poorer defensive ability. Cesc will be a substantial upgrade. He does the good stuff Mata did better (through balls) but even as an average defender he is miles ahead of Mata. I think actually that it's very possible that they sold Mata having had some kind of verbal agreement with Cesc regarding his transfer here. It might never have been an Oscar vs Mata situation but rather possible that the club found themselves in a position to make an improvement one of our best players (Mata) and make a lot of money doing so.

I am also very excited to see the impact Cesc has on Oscar. I am sure that it will make his job much easier as Cesc is always moving about to make passes easier for other players and is a great passer himself. As Henrique said, Cesc is also a winner. He has the mentality that a lot of our youngsters lack and is really the only barrier some of our players are facing from becoming truly world class. If he can impart some of that hunger to our youngsters then the league better watch out as I think we even though last year was an accomplishment on Mourinho's part, this team is nowhere near performing to its full potential atm.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Do you think we should play Oscar in the pivot if we play a 4231 then? Cause he's not a good #10. He's playing RW right now so maybe he'll do better in the cm as 433

I would prefer him either #10 or on RW, with Hazard in middle and Schurrle/Willian left.

But we should consider 4:3:3, with Cesc, Oscar and Matic in middle. Cesc isnt exactly hard worker and Matic will get exposed many times because he likes to drift forward (Ramires could cover him in last season, but Cesc probably wont) and its important to have Oscar in team because he is tacticaly sound and he will cover for Matic if he can. Creativity wont be such a problem because we also have Cesc now, but unless we get Pogba or Vidal I wouldnt consider replacing Oscar. Not with James, Kroos etc who dont defend enough to be played next to Cesc and Matic.

Its team game and indiviudual isnt important. Its what the team achieves. And if we will be winning with Oscar, he will do a good job.

People wanted Mata out because he was not good without the ball, Oscar on other hand is. If you want creative CAM; we had Mata. But Oscar does a lot more. Maybe not in attack, but his contribution helps his team win. He is probably a bit tired and thats why we should buy someone like Pogba who can exchange with Oscar if he plays bad or is tired.

I also think his attacking sense was heavily limited by Mou and Scolari who use him for winger, DM, CM,...but never for pure #10 role with freedom. He is probably bit tired also, he isnt exactly Ramires or Toure body wise and that is the biggest question I ask myself. He can be good, but with such play, running up and down, he will be always exhausted after few games and who knows what will happen in few years; injuries,...

[meetdoscar 335]

Oscar turned in two great passes for Neymar who missed both opportunities and neymar was so selfish for 120 minutes. On another day we will be saying how good those passes were if neymar had scored. Bearing in mind chile are a really strong, energetic, tactical and well organized side i think for him or any other brasilian player to be spectacular was a tough ask.

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

He will and should warm the bench a lot next season, until he can prove he's good enough to start over better players.

Might as well sell for 40m to PSG if that is the case

[Chelsea? 892]

I would prefer him either #10 or on RW, with Hazard in middle and Schurrle/Willian left.

But we should consider 4:3:3, with Cesc, Oscar and Matic in middle. Cesc isnt exactly hard worker and Matic will get exposed many times because he likes to drift forward (Ramires could cover him in last season, but Cesc probably wont) and its important to have Oscar in team because he is tacticaly sound and he will cover for Matic if he can. Creativity wont be such a problem because we also have Cesc now, but unless we get Pogba or Vidal I wouldnt consider replacing Oscar. Not with James, Kroos etc who dont defend enough to be played next to Cesc and Matic.

Its team game and indiviudual isnt important. Its what the team achieves. And if we will be winning with Oscar, he will do a good job.

People wanted Mata out because he was not good without the ball, Oscar on other hand is. If you want creative CAM; we had Mata. But Oscar does a lot more. Maybe not in attack, but his contribution helps his team win. He is probably a bit tired and thats why we should buy someone like Pogba who can exchange with Oscar if he plays bad or is tired.

I also think his attacking sense was heavily limited by Mou and Scolari who use him for winger, DM, CM,...but never for pure #10 role with freedom. He is probably bit tired also, he isnt exactly Ramires or Toure body wise and that is the biggest question I ask myself. He can be good, but with such play, running up and down, he will be always exhausted after few games and who knows what will happen in few years; injuries,...

I think a #10's main job should be providing attacking support, his hard work defensively should be secondary. He's been poor offensively since day one and doesnt seem to be getting better.

[haranr 485]

This kid is something close to a 'flop'. Let's all face it. I can see him improving but his potential isn't as high. We should try to sell him for high if possible this summer....

[yuvala 2,167]

He's been poor offensively since day one and doesnt seem to be getting better.

He's had some good times where he looked very good offensively.

Most of the time though he doesn't look that good.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

This kid is something close to a 'flop'. Let's all face it. I can see him improving but his potential isn't as high. We should try to sell him for high if possible this summer....

or trust in Mourinho...?

[lionsden 4,689]

He will and should warm the bench a lot next season, until he can prove he's good enough to start over better players.

He won't though. You can't be benching a player with "huge potential and future world class player". He will likely be pampered and made excuses for yet again. my bet will be on Mourinho's tracksuit distracting him from the touchline since they are close to running out of footballing related excuses.

[Chelsea? 892]

He won't though. You can't be benching a player with "huge potential and future world class player". He will likely be pampered and made excuses for yet again. my bet will be on Mourinho's tracksuit distracting him from the touchline since they are close to running out of footballing related excuses.

I think morinho can bench Oscar. We'll end up playing a 433 with ramires and Matic accompanying cesc.

[robsblubot 3,222]

If Oscar plays well he will be on the starting XI, if he doesn't, he will warm the bench. If he doesn't play well all season then he will be sold. I know it's obvious, but some seem to be missing the obvious on this thread.

All this speculation is way too premature as we don't know what his physical and mental state will be when he comes back to start the season - same for all players involved in the world cup.

Personally I fucking hate seeing Oscar on the wings. I don't think he has the pace for that and his dribbling skills are suited for tight spaces, not wide areas. The fact he's been poor has very little to do with where he's been playing though. He hasn't looked sharp and been looking a bit feeble.

[lionsden 4,689]

If Oscar plays well he will be on the starting XI, if he doesn't, he will warm the bench. If he doesn't play well all season then he will be sold. I know it's obvious, but some seem to be missing the obvious on this thread.

All this speculation is way too premature as we don't know what his physical and mental state will be when he comes back to start the season - same for all players involved in the world cup.

Personally I fucking hate seeing Oscar on the wings. I don't think he has the pace for that and his dribbling skills are suited for tight spaces, not wide areas. The fact he's been poor has very little to do with where he's been playing though. He hasn't looked sharp and been looking a bit feeble.

Except it's been proven in football generally that if a manager likes you, your starting position will never be under threat regardless of form. we see it all the time in football. case in point last season with Ramires whenever fit and available for selection always played despite being consistently awful for large portion of the season.

Players getting bench for bad form only applies to those that aren't seen as untouchable by the manager

[Barbara 15,149]

If Oscar plays well he will be on the starting XI, if he doesn't, he will warm the bench. If he doesn't play well all season then he will be sold. I know it's obvious, but some seem to be missing the obvious on this thread.

Still it seems some 'fans' are almost cheering, hoping and praying for him to play badly so he moves to the bench and then gets sold. He could be sold this window transfer for all we know because Mourinho could have something else in his mind. We don't know. But still some people here are hoping and praying for him to be officially considered a flop. I don't know what kind of support is that. I don't like this idea even against opposition young players, let alone with ours. Young players reaching their potential is good for the sport. Messi and Ronaldo won't play forever the same way Zidane and Ronaldo didn't, Romário and Maradona, Zico and Garrincha, etc... so I always look forward to a youngster developing close or fully to their potential, but all that much more if said player belongs to us (when there's potential anyway, because a lot of youngsters don't have the potential people credit them)

At some points this thread is just nonsense through and through.

Also with every day that goes by he becomes worse. Not worse currently - but worse in what he already made for us. I don't know how that's possible, but the two seasons he played for us gets worse and worse by each page here. If he's still here when the thread reaches 400, his goals against Juve will probably be credited to Hazard or considered lucky flukes because as of now just the previous page (or one of the latest) someone said he has NEVER been good offensively for us. It's a study case, a player who gets worse and worse in current and past form.

And before someone misses the obvious, my previous post in this thread states exactly that he's been poor lately, both for us (last months) and for Brazil (except against Croatia and defensively). I'm not defending Oscar, he's been poor, I'm just always surprised at how people go out of their way to bash a player and seem to almost wish them bad things. Maybe it's their pride that is bigger than their supposed love or support for the team and their need to say in a few months - I told you so.

[zolayes 14,489]

we had this hate mentality with Kalou .. it was completely sickening . We NEED Oscar as he was at the start of the season

[Styles 9,790]

Still it seems some 'fans' are almost cheering, hoping and praying for him to play badly so he moves to the bench and then gets sold. He could be sold this window transfer for all we know because Mourinho could have something else in his mind. We don't know. But still some people here are hoping and praying for him to be officially considered a flop. I don't know what kind of support is that. I don't like this idea even against opposition young players, let alone with ours. Young players reaching their potential is good for the sport. Messi and Ronaldo won't play forever the same way Zidane and Ronaldo didn't, Romário and Maradona, Zico and Garrincha, etc... so I always look forward to a youngster developing close or fully to their potential, but all that much more if said player belongs to us (when there's potential anyway, because a lot of youngsters don't have the potential people credit them)

At some points this thread is just nonsense through and through.

Also with every day that goes by he becomes worse. Not worse currently - but worse in what he already made for us. I don't know how that's possible, but the two seasons he played for us gets worse and worse by each page here. If he's still here when the thread reaches 400, his goals against Juve will probably be credited to Hazard or considered lucky flukes because as of now just the previous page (or one of the latest) someone said he has NEVER been good offensively for us. It's a study case, a player who gets worse and worse in current and past form.

And before someone misses the obvious, my previous post in this thread states exactly that he's been poor lately, both for us (last months) and for Brazil (except against Croatia and defensively). I'm not defending Oscar, he's been poor, I'm just always surprised at how people go out of their way to bash a player and seem to almost wish them bad things. Maybe it's their pride that is bigger than their supposed love or support for the team and their need to say in a few months - I told you so.

Besides a few people who have completely written him off as a flop/fraud, I think most people know he's a good player who just isn't performing like one consistently enough. I certainly haven't given up on him and I believe that goes for a lot of other supporters.

[robsblubot 3,222]

I have absolutely no clue why it has stopped. Same players, same manager. Why the fuck are they not pressing as much as before?

I will take a stab at it:

Oscar is part of the problem with his poor form. His work rate and tackling are way less than they used to be. It's like like only his creatively is gone; all aspects of his game have suffered. That's why I am confident he will improve soon.

However, the main reason that Brazil is no longer able to press high is because we play with 10 men from the first minute of every match. You can't press high up with a player who can barely move: Fred. This is also very predictable as he's been battling niggling injuries for a year now, which has been the story of his career.

To me this was the main reason Mata was sold: for his inability to press high up the pitch.

[Barbara 15,149]

I will take a stab at it:

Oscar is part of the problem with his poor form. His work rate and tackling are way less than they used to be. It's like like only his creatively is gone; all aspects of his game have suffered. That's why I am confident he will improve soon.

However, the main reason that Brazil is no longer able to press high is because we play with 10 men from the first minute of every match. You can't press high up with a player who can barely move: Fred. This is also very predictable as he's been battling niggling injuries for a year now, which has been the story of his career.

To me this was the main reason Mata was sold: for his inability to press high up the pitch.

I disagree. First, Oscar had 7 tackles in the first game and then 8 in the second according some of those stats sites (I guess Squawka, it wasn't FIFA official stats). That was more than any pivot player in the WC had according to the same source.

I think the system changed. We played a 4-3-3 last year, now we play a 4-2-3-1. I don't know - can't say - if Oscar had a free role as Dion suggested - but I do know the team's focal point wasn't Neymar. Neymar was the most important player back then, but he wasn't the focal point. It was better well distributed. Now he's the focal point. everything converges to him and I think he's overloaded and overwhelmed.

Oscar is having a dip of form in the attack, but Neymar dominating the play the way he has (quantity wise, because quality had ups and downs) only makes it worse. If Oscar played centered, ahead of Gustavo and Fernandinho, as a third man in the midfield he'd be better imo. I don't hate him in the wing - as you or Pizy said, can't remember which - I think he can make a good job there because a winger isn't only about pace, especially as we've had either dominant or decent possession in the matches so far - pace is more important for counter-attack based teams, which we aren't.

At the end of the day Felipão is doing a very poor job. As Henrique said in some thread he doesn't change the system or the tactics, only the players. Willian will always sub Oscar, Bernard-Hulk, Jo-Fred. He doesn't dare to change even when it's not working. van Gaal today changed the 5-3-2 for a 4-3-3 and the match changed, Felipão can NEVER even dream of doing something like that... The team has no organization, tactical awareness and the midfield is nonexistent. Good thing Luiz and Silva can do some work with long passes, but with so many quality players in our midfield (they're not top class, but they're very good imo) we shouldn't have lost the midfield so easily... We have players good enough to win this at home, but our manager is one of the weakest in the WC... and if we lose it next round, two or three from now I'll put 90% of the blame on Felipão.

Neymar, Oscar, Hernanes, Fernandinho, Luiz, Silva - which are imo our best technical players - are all victims of a team that has really no tactic whatsoever. We don't have a team, just 11 players in the same side of the pitch.

[robsblubot 3,222]

I disagree. First, Oscar had 7 tackles in the first game and then 8 in the second according some of those stats sites (I guess Squawka, it wasn't FIFA official stats). That was more than any pivot player in the WC had according to the same source.

I think the system changed. We played a 4-3-3 last year, now we play a 4-2-3-1. I don't know - can't say - if Oscar had a free role as Dion suggested - but I do know the team's focal point wasn't Neymar. Neymar was the most important player back then, but he wasn't the focal point. It was better well distributed. Now he's the focal point. everything converges to him and I think he's overloaded and overwhelmed.

Oscar is having a dip of form in the attack, but Neymar dominating the play the way he has (quantity wise, because quality had ups and downs) only makes it worse. If Oscar played centered, ahead of Gustavo and Fernandinho, as a third man in the midfield he'd be better imo. I don't hate him in the wing - as you or Pizy said, can't remember which - I think he can make a good job there because a winger isn't only about pace, especially as we've had either dominant or decent possession in the matches so far - pace is more important for counter-attack based teams, which we aren't.

At the end of the day Felipão is doing a very poor job. As Henrique said in some thread he doesn't change the system or the tactics, only the players. Willian will always sub Oscar, Bernard-Hulk, Jo-Fred. He doesn't dare to change even when it's not working. van Gaal today changed the 5-3-2 for a 4-3-3 and the match changed, Felipão can NEVER even dream of doing something like that... The team has no organization, tactical awareness and the midfield is nonexistent. Good thing Luiz and Silva can do some work with long passes, but with so many quality players in our midfield (they're not top class, but they're very good imo) we shouldn't have lost the midfield so easily... We have players good enough to win this at home, but our manager is one of the weakest in the WC... and if we lose it next round, two or three from now I'll put 90% of the blame on Felipão.

Neymar, Oscar, Hernanes, Fernandinho, Luiz, Silva - which are imo our best technical players - are all victims of a team that has really no tactic whatsoever. We don't have a team, just 11 players in the same side of the pitch.

Not much to disagree with.

Just don't think stats give you the whole picture: Oscar movement has not been good enough for either Chelsea or Brazil.

In the beginning of last season he was a machine! He would track all the way back, make runs just because he could, etc. He's still a good player, but not the player he can be.

Yeah agree about Scolari... Stick David Luiz in midfield next game to handle Colombia's physicality, but I'd not count on Scolari doing even that.

Brazil looks as if they are playing with 10-men because they are! Can't have volume of play with 10 men on the pitch (Fred can't even run!)... at least not at this stage and against the likes of Vidal.