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Joker10

Rumoured Luke Shaw

Started by Joker10,

2,026 posts in this topic
He's got great potential and has had a really strong start to the season, so why would Southampton want to sell? Why would he want to come and sit on the bench for us as third choice LB?

I know he's a Chelsea fan, but he'd only be hindering his own development if he came here imo. I don't think he's shown enough yet to warrant a move to a top side yet, either. Probably best for him to stay there (if they stay up) for a couple of years, then make the move. He'll probably sign a new contract soon, I imagine - I doubt it'll take much to convince him to stay.

Besides, i'm hoping the club give PvA a chance here, always been a fan of him.

If we did sign him, it would have to be a sign and loan. Shaw is roughly 5 years younger than PVA and playing at a higher level. One of the best signs of greatness is the ability to play at a high level at a very young age and excel. Ashley Cole was a regular at Arsenal at 20. Maldini was 17 when he was starting for Milan. Baines was 21 when he was starting regularly in the Premier League. There are players who develop later. There are players who aren't appreciated until they are older. There are players who move into a more suitable system and become better later...but the ability to excel when you are young is one of the biggest signs of future greatness. (And look at our top players. Mata was excellent with Valencia when he was 20. Hazard player of the year in France at 19...or out legends. Terry was a regular starter at 20, Lampard was 19. )

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If we did sign him, it would have to be a sign and loan.

Southampton would never agree to that. Why sell him for a fee now which would be significantly less than what he'd be worth if he signed a new deal and helped keep them up? I can see him leaving in a couple of years, not now though. There's no reason for him to want to leave.

Shaw is roughly 6 years younger than PVA and playing at a higher level. One of the best signs of greatness is the ability to play at a high level at a very young age and excel. Ashley Cole was a regular at Arsenal at 20. Maldini was 17 when he was starting for Milan. Baines was 21 when he was starting regularly in the Premier League. There are players who develop later. There are players who aren't appreciated until they are older. There are players who move into a more suitable system and become better later...but the ability to excel when you are young is one of the biggest signs of future greatness. (And look at our top players. Mata was excellent with Valencia when he was 20. Hazard player of the year in France at 19...or out legends. Terry was a regular starter at 20, Lampard was 19. )

I wouldn't say he's 'excelled' - He's had a (at times very) good half a season. Like I said, he's got great potential - But moving to us at this point in his career would hinder him, rather than help him progress. The only way he'll achieve 'greatness' as you call it, is by being the no.1 LB - something that I don't think he'd be able to do here (not yet, anyway).

Van Aanholt has been having a great season at Vitesse by the way and could quite easily cover the third (or even second) left-back position in the squad. As I said, I may be a bit biased, because i've always liked watching him.

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The thing about Southampton and their youth players is that when they let them go they take into account which club would be best suited for the players development. Bale went to Spurs instead of United for this reason.

I think tactically it makes sense to go for someone like Shaw, but not yet. After Cole leaves, I can see us and United going for him (unless they pay Everton's ridiculous asking price for Baines). Tactically at the moment Azpil is our most important player. In a formation and with players that naturally want to come inside, he offers the width and comfort on the ball that we seriously lack down the left side. It's strange that we've seen Cole bomb forward for years and years, but when on the ball in the final third he doesn't look at ease at all. From seeing Shaw briefly this season, he looks very good in possession, and his distribution is very precise.

Not trying to overrate the kid but his style reminds me of a young Philipp Lahm.

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As one of the 'stupid' people, can you honestly say in the games you watched Bertrand and PVA play when they were 17 that they had the composure and confidence that Shaw has right now? Because I like both of those guys, but they simply didn't. When it comes to tactical positioning they're not even close which is slightly worrying.

Now I'd like to see Bertrand given a run in the team but if this kid is available for £5 million as the press have suggested, then it's a very tempting proposition. I've heard good things about PVA this season but both these guys have a problem now that Ashley has signed a new contract. You're talking about another year before they can really fight for his spot, at which point Bertrand will be 25.

You say that Bertrand will be 'good enough'. When did Chelsea start settling for 'good enough'?

Bertrand played the champions league final and many other high import games with the composure and ability you've all seen to forgotten about, i think most people seem to judge bertrand on performances where it's also not been his fault, many times i've seen him criticized by retards for not being able to deal with 3 attackers when the fault actually lay with hazard or whoever was in front of him for not tracking back, this to me shows a clear misunderstanding of the game as a whole.

Anyway what, Luke shaw had one good game against us and he's the new best thing ever? if Beneteiz wasnt a useless shite we'd of one that game easily and hammered them, would people still be saying he's great? people want this stupid arsenal way of football, bring in young experienced "great players" and while i have no doubt they could be great one day, they'd cant achieve this until they get a little older and wiser, feeling your team full of young "great players" is how arsenal won nothing in the last 8 years, you need a balance. Bertrand at 25 taking over from cole with PVA as a back up is perfect, if you mean buy shaw as a back up and loan him out until he's 21-22 and ready then fine. But bringing him in at 17 and wanting him to be 1st choice in a year is sheer stupidity.

You dont even hit your peak in football till around 27.....silly silly people.

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He's got great potential and has had a really strong start to the season, so why would Southampton want to sell? Why would he want to come and sit on the bench for us as third choice LB?

I know he's a Chelsea fan, but he'd only be hindering his own development if he came here imo. I don't think he's shown enough yet to warrant a move to a top side yet, either. Probably best for him to stay there (if they stay up) for a couple of years, then make the move. He'll probably sign a new contract soon, I imagine - I doubt it'll take much to convince him to stay.

Besides, i'm hoping the club give PvA a chance here, always been a fan of him.

Precisely.

We were actually one of the teams that were highly interested in Oxlade-Chamberlain when he was still at Southampton (I often kept a close eye on stories regarding him & posted on TC). It actually came down to Arsenal, United & Us. He was immediately deciding between Arsenal and United because he knew that we simply wouldn't have given him the chance that Wenger gave to him. He wanted to follow in the footsteps of Bale & Walcott where his impact would come sooner than later.

Shaw will be the same. He will only move when he knows he will be given a fair chance, when age isn't going to hinder that chance.

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Precisely.

We were actually one of the teams that were highly interested in Oxlade-Chamberlain when he was still at Southampton (I often kept a close eye on stories regarding him & posted on TC). It actually came down to Arsenal, United & Us. He was immediately deciding between Arsenal and United because he knew that we simply wouldn't have given him the chance that Wenger gave to him. He wanted to follow in the footsteps of Bale & Walcott where his impact would come sooner than later.

Shaw will be the same. He will only move when he knows he will be given a fair chance, when age isn't going to hinder that chance.

Yea that's really worked out for wenger hasnt it.......wait? no it hasnt.

Do people like to pretend arsenal havent won anything since wenger started this philosophy or what?

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Bertrand played the champions league final and many other high import games with the composure and ability you've all seen to forgotten about, i think most people seem to judge bertrand on performances where it's also not been his fault, many times i've seen him criticized by retards for not being able to deal with 3 attackers when the fault actually lay with hazard or whoever was in front of him for not tracking back, this to me shows a clear misunderstanding of the game as a whole.

Firstly, Kalou played in the final as well and if we're honest, we were very lucky for the first 90 minutes. I thought Ryan had a good game purely because he didn't make any major mistakes. I like him because he works hard and keeps his head down but I have doubts about his ability to play for us going forward.

Anyway what, Luke shaw had one good game against us and he's the new best thing ever?

I haven't seen anyone call him the best thing ever. People also seem to be saying he's done well in a number of games, even before either of the games against us. I think seeing him up close in those games simply confirmed the views people had of him.

if Beneteiz wasnt a useless shite we'd of one that game easily and hammered them, would people still be saying he's great?

Yes. I thought he had a solid game before he set up their second goal.

people want this stupid arsenal way of football, bring in young experienced "great players" and while i have no doubt they could be great one day, they'd cant achieve this until they get a little older and wiser, feeling your team full of young "great players" is how arsenal won nothing in the last 8 years, you need a balance.

Actually Arsenal won nothing because they didn't invest and sold their best players. That's like saying someone who got hit by a car might have died because he had a cold.

Bertrand at 25 taking over from cole with PVA as a back up is perfect, if you mean buy shaw as a back up and loan him out until he's 21-22 and ready then fine. But bringing him in at 17 and wanting him to be 1st choice in a year is sheer stupidity.

You dont even hit your peak in football till around 27.....silly silly people.

Is it perfect? Is either won going to be a top class footballer? I don't know, but I have reservations.

This is why I asked if you honestly think that Bertrand at 17 was as good as Shaw is now? I have to say no, and it comes down to the composure he plays with. He doesn't look overawed and if you didn't know he was 17 then you'd never guess it. Of course it's early days now but clubs don't have the luxury to sit and wait nowadays.

Calling people silly and retarded really isn't called for.

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Yea that's really worked out for wenger hasnt it.......wait? no it hasnt.

Do people like to pretend arsenal havent won anything since wenger started this philosophy or what?

Well it's worked out for Chamberlain, even if he uses Arsenal as a springboard. Hasn't worked out for Bale yet, but he's got interest from Real Madrid, Barcelona etc. It's not about Arsenal not winning anything it's about him actually bringing through talent, giving them a chance, and giving them the opportunity to elevate their career.

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Take a deep breath people. He's had 2 top performances, let's not brand him the next Ashley Cole based on them.

Don't get me wrong, he's a great great talent, and he could become the best LB in the league. But he just signed a 5 and a half years contract at Southampton and he's not going anywhere anytime soon, And we have extended Cole's contract, meaning that we won't be looking to sign a LB until at least the summer of 2014.

I think in 2-2.5 years we will be able to see if Luke is living up to his potential and then decide if we want to sign him or not. It does give us an edge that he is a Chelsea fan.

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This is why I asked if you honestly think that Bertrand at 17 was as good as Shaw is now? I have to say no, and it comes down to the composure he plays with. He doesn't look overawed and if you didn't know he was 17 then you'd never guess it. Of course it's early days now but clubs don't have the luxury to sit and wait nowadays.

That has no relevant, pato at 17 was the worlds best thing and now he's muck, Gerard and lampard and terry werent anything special at 17 and they became legend of an entire generation, dosent matter when bertrand gets better or if he wasnt better then, i believe him to be better now and will be more then good enough for the job in time.

Anyway most of your post's seem like your trolling half the time anyway so im gunna leave it here.

Well it's worked out for Chamberlain, even if he uses Arsenal as a springboard. Hasn't worked out for Bale yet, but he's got interest from Real Madrid, Barcelona etc. It's not about Arsenal not winning anything it's about him actually bringing through talent, giving them a chance, and giving them the opportunity to elevate their career.

I dont rate chamberlain at all, another useless player like sturridge,wallcott, welbeck over hyped and overrated by a desperate english media and bias snobbery to the top teams.

Anyway thats fine if they want to get young talent through, but thats a feeder clubs job, if you want us to become a feeder club and bring talent through too early win nothing and sell them, then theirs a another london club much better at that in the last few years, i suggest you support them, shaw wont be ready for a long time, bertrand will be more then good enough with PVA as back up or vice versa.

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I dont rate chamberlain at all, another useless player like sturridge,wallcott, welbeck over hyped and overrated by a desperate english media and bias snobbery to the top teams.

Fair play. I do believe Chamberlain is actually a very impressive talent, but you can't deny someone like Bale either?

Anyway thats fine if they want to get young talent through, but thats a feeder clubs job, if you want us to become a feeder club and bring talent through too early win nothing and sell them, then theirs a another london club much better at that in the last few years, i suggest you support them, shaw wont be ready for a long time, bertrand will be more then good enough with PVA as back up or vice versa.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not suggesting we do become a feeder club by any means. However that doesn't mean we can't bring through talent without having to wait forever. In fact, that's not even what we do. We take players from these feeder clubs, paying 2-3x what those original clubs paid for them. That's an unsustainable system if anyone ever saw.

However, I do agree that Bertrand is good enough & in PvA we've got some good potential. If Bertrand was at a club like West Ham, most of our fans would be saying we should sign him up etc. But without a doubt, Ryan Bertrand is a left-back, not a winger.

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My brother played with Luke's dad for Wandsworth Town, he always brought young Luke to training and had a kick about with them. He is a huge Chelsea fan but Ashley Cole is trying to make Ryan into our next main LB so time will tell. Luke Shaw is better than Ryan Bertand imo, has more potential. Hope Ryan does well for us though.

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Fair play. I do believe Chamberlain is actually a very impressive talent, but you can't deny someone like Bale either?

Bales that little bit older tho, he's 23 now and has shown he's well able to at least start tho i do think he's over hyped in the sense he's not some 100million ronaldo like player, but he is a great player and will probably get alot better.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not suggesting we do become a feeder club by any means. However that doesn't mean we can't bring through talent without having to wait forever. In fact, that's not even what we do. We take players from these feeder clubs, paying 2-3x what those original clubs paid for them. That's an unsustainable system if anyone ever saw.

However, I do agree that Bertrand is good enough & in PvA we've got some good potential. If Bertrand was at a club like West Ham, most of our fans would be saying we should sign him up etc. But without a doubt, Ryan Bertrand is a left-back, not a winger.

The system we have isnt perfect no, but what were doing with bertrand and PVA is defo the right way to do it and if bertrand only starts his 1st team career at chelsea at 25 then he'll be more then able to handle the pressure and the experience needed.Agreed on if ryan was at West ham as well. And i agree he's no winger but when you need to sit on a result for 10mins and you already got cole in LB i cant think of a better player to link up with him and help the defense while still not being particularly bad at it.

We defo shoudnt go down this direction of really young players playing or really old, a nice medium is always the way, look at tonight in the cup, alot of our younger players choked like they have done in all big games so far, bar the league ones.

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People are judging Shaw on a couple of good performances. Right now I would take Bertrand over him in heart beat because we know he is solid in the back and that is the first thing you want from your LB. Sure Shaw has shown he can help on the attack, but has his defensive resolve been truly tested? I said this in the transfer section, Shaw is a good prospect that we should monitor until at least the end of next season when I believe Cole will be gone. Then we would have seen enough of him to make decision.

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The lad is 17 ffs!Yes he may be a bit inconsisitent right now due to inexperience but his potential is there for all to see.(I am talking about shaw not ryan)

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People are judging Shaw on a couple of good performances. Right now I would take Bertrand over him in heart beat because we know he is solid in the back and that is the first thing you want from your LB. Sure Shaw has shown he can help on the attack, but has his defensive resolve been truly tested? I said this in the transfer section, Shaw is a good prospect that we should monitor until at least the end of next season when I believe Cole will be gone. Then we would have seen enough of him to make decision.

You're referring to the ones against Chelsea? He was highly rated even before that..

But yes, I agree its too early to think of Shaw. We have Cole for one more season, and Bertrand is more than capable of filling in when needed.

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