The English Football Thread

[Pizy 18,852]

4 minutes ago, Laylabelle said:

The only thing that annoy me about Man U finishing above is being above them for so long..most the season I think. 

All about their defense compared to ours. They've been horrendous to watch up until just recently but even at their worst they could always defend very effectively. Now they can both shut teams out like before but also have crazy attacking firepower since they're all fit.

Us on the other hand....

Honestly, though, even with our horrid defense we would be in such a comfortable position had we capitalized on our dominance in so many matches.

[Alabama 1,992]

Lol...

One good result and people are now going all paranoid...so long we dont fukc it up even if we lose against City...so ye all are expecting Utd to win all their remaining games...

 

[Pizy 18,852]

2 minutes ago, Alabama said:

Lol...

One good result and people are now going all paranoid...so long we dont fukc it up even if we lose against City...so ye all are expecting Utd to win all their remaining games...

 

Nah, don't think they'll win out. I just think we have far more slip up fixtures than they do.

[Alabama 1,992]

1 minute ago, Pizy said:

Nah, don't think they'll win out. I just think we have far more slip up fixtures than they do.

Yes we do...but if anything that means we have to take all the games as cup final...our defense my only worry or concern...

Bring the games on

[Pizy 18,852]

Win tomorrow and it'll give us a massive boost in confidence. Think we 100% lock up a top 4 finish afterwards.

Lose and its squeaky bum time. And for players like ours who are mentally fragile as it is.....I think we're in real danger.

[Laylabelle 9,534]

Comfy comfy Liverpool 

[Tomo 21,751]

1 hour ago, Pizy said:

All about their defense compared to ours. They've been horrendous to watch up until just recently but even at their worst they could always defend very effectively. Now they can both shut teams out like before but also have crazy attacking firepower since they're all fit.

Us on the other hand....

Honestly, though, even with our horrid defense we would be in such a comfortable position had we capitalized on our dominance in so many matches.

Their defense is only "good" because Ole's tactics protect it, if they appoint a manager that plays more progressively (which they'll have to do to make that step forward to title challenge) they'll suddenly be very bad and need a complete defensive overhaul.

[Special Juan 28,096]

Chelsea first and foremost, fuck all this hit on twitter saying some would love us to lose and allow the title race to keep going......NO!

We have our own agenda.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

46 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Their defense is only "good" because Ole's tactics protect it, if they appoint a manager that plays more progressively (which they'll have to do to make that step forward to title challenge) they'll suddenly be very bad and need a complete defensive overhaul.

Agree.

Would say Lindelof has improved under Ole (after a few seasons where he struggled under Jose) and Wan Bissaka, who is very good defensively but they are lacking half a defence basically so if they ever play a bit more openly they will get caught out. Even then you ideally need 4 good fullbacks and 4 good CBs to compete for titles.

We are no different. We have issues at LB and CB except Tomori and Rudiger (who can play much much better). Zouma will never suit us if we continue down the path we are going, he still struggles reading the game and playing out from the back. I do still have a slight hope that Christensen can turn it around but if he is here next season and doesn't really improve he could go. Well thats if Frank is going to be ruthless like he was with Luiz. Few others in the same situation in other positions. 

Maguire for 80mn is still nowhere near as good as he was ever made out to be and while Shaw has kicked on he has really not hit the heights you'd have expected (although his consistency has improved a bit but he would be a bench player at City or Liverpool). Their roles in that goal v Spurs the other night was shocking, laughable really, Maguire looked like a Championship player the way he was beaten and Shaw just didn't look around him and ran forward without thinking. 

The overall quality of defenders in the PL really has decreased though. Bar van Dijk and Laporte who for me are the standout ones, I don't really see any real quality at other teams. Guys like Joe Gomez, Lindelof, Rudi, Matip, Vertonghen and Alderweireld as well as a few others I will have missed are maybe in/were the bracket below but even then the gap between those and VVD and Laporte is big. That young Turkish fella at Leicester has got potential but I do think he has to be careful guys like Christensen and Davinson Sanchez have done well then faded so will reserve proper judgement to see how he does next season.
 

It is weird though at a lot of clubs, I get the feeling coaches don't seem to focus on defensive set plays or shape anywhere near as much now and it has shown more than ever in the last 7 or 8 years in British football imo. 

 

[Vesper 30,088]

10 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Agree.

Would say Lindelof has improved under Ole (after a few seasons where he struggled under Jose) and Wan Bissaka, who is very good defensively but they are lacking half a defence basically so if they ever play a bit more openly they will get caught out. Even then you ideally need 4 good fullbacks and 4 good CBs to compete for titles.

We are no different. We have issues at LB and CB except Tomori and Rudiger (who can play much much better). Zouma will never suit us if we continue down the path we are going, he still struggles reading the game and playing out from the back. I do still have a slight hope that Christensen can turn it around but if he is here next season and doesn't really improve he could go. Well thats if Frank is going to be ruthless like he was with Luiz. Few others in the same situation in other positions. 

Maguire for 80mn is still nowhere near as good as he was ever made out to be and while Shaw has kicked on he has really not hit the heights you'd have expected (although his consistency has improved a bit but he would be a bench player at City or Liverpool). Their roles in that goal v Spurs the other night was shocking, laughable really, Maguire looked like a Championship player the way he was beaten and Shaw just didn't look around him and ran forward without thinking. 

The overall quality of defenders in the PL really has decreased though. Bar van Dijk and Laporte who for me are the standout ones, I don't really see any real quality at other teams. Guys like Joe Gomez, Lindelof, Rudi, Matip, Vertonghen and Alderweireld as well as a few others I will have missed are maybe in/were the bracket below but even then the gap between those and VVD and Laporte is big. That young Turkish fella at Leicester has got potential but I do think he has to be careful guys like Christensen and Davinson Sanchez have done well then faded so will reserve proper judgement to see how he does next season.
 

It is weird though at a lot of clubs, I get the feeling coaches don't seem to focus on defensive set plays or shape anywhere near as much now and it has shown more than ever in the last 7 or 8 years in British football imo. 

 

Super post 

Manure need a WC CB, LB, DMF and RW (my nightmare is Sancho) and they are then near title winning level. OGS would then be the main barrier.

Koulibaly, Alex Sandro, Thomas Partey, Sancho plus Poch = nightmare 

[Vesper 30,088]

4 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

People are expecting from UTD to win all games? This season they have won something like 1.6 points per game on average.

Every team will still drop a lot of points. Basically like in the end of last season.

They have a great chance to win all the rest leading up to the last game (Leicester)

They literally play nothing but shit, and Pogba is back and looks engaged.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

26 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Super post 

Manure need a WC CB, LB, DMF and RW (my nightmare is Sancho) and they are then near title winning level. OGS would then be the main barrier.

Koulibaly, Alex Sandro, Thomas Partey, Sancho plus Poch = nightmare 

I think with those level of signings, even with Ole who isn't or never will be as highly regarded as those others, they'd still be very formidable. He doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who would alienate/burn people out like we seen with Mourinho and Conte here and they've bought into what hes trying to do.

Fair enough Pep, Klopp as well as a few other managers would be better tactically and maybe make tactical tweaks to alter games but very good players are very good players and ultimately they make the difference in key moments.

This is another reason why Frank has got to get the correct backing and recruitment here (Ziyech and Werner are in the correct mould along with Kovacic, Jorginho and Pulisic). Just as it would be the same with Jose at Spurs or Arteta at Arsenal. Good recruitment is so vital. If you take Son, Kane and Lo Celso out of Spurs team for instance or Lacazette and Aubamayang out of Arsenals team, they are very average but those guys can make the difference which ultimately can get you another X amount of points a season. Surrounded by the right players that can be the difference between finishing 1st or 2nd or 4th and 5th.
 

Obviously managers are important but we seen what Pep needed to win trophies at City and what Klopp needed to get titles at Liverpool. I still think if City had Pellegrini or Mancini they would still be up there to win the league with the squad they have now. Just like whenever Pep leaves and they continue recruiting as they have been since 2010 they will still be competing. 

[NikkiCFC 8,285]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

They have a great chance to win all the rest leading up to the last game (Leicester)

They literally play nothing but shit, and Pogba is back and looks engaged.

They have 7 games left. Against these opponents in first part of the season from possible 21 points they won just 8!

They lost against West Ham, Crystal Palace and Bournemouth. Draw with Villa and Southampton and beat only Leicester and Brighton.

They have much better record this season against better teams on paper. This is PL everyone can harm you.

They do look much better now, lets see...

 

[NikkiCFC 8,285]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

Obviously managers are important but we seen what Pep needed to win trophies at City and what Klopp needed to get titles at Liverpool. I still think if City had Pellegrini or Mancini they would still be up there to win the league with the squad they have now. Just like whenever Pep leaves and they continue recruiting as they have been since 2010 they will still be competing. 

Actually Mancini and Pellegrini won titles already with weaker squads. Plus they also won some other domestic trophies...

Pep have more in quantity but he got lucky many times to win CS, Fa cup, League Cup on penalties. 

In the end of the day PL and CL are what matters the most.

If Pep fails to win CL this season that would mean 2 PL and 0 CL in four years. With this squad I am sure they wanted more. He did not even reach semi final yet unlike Pellegrini.

And every season he got knocked out by weaker squad: young Monaco team, Liverpool 17-18 and Spurs... They also spent more money than any other team in the world in this period.

 

[communicate 2,703]

2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Agree.

Would say Lindelof has improved under Ole (after a few seasons where he struggled under Jose) and Wan Bissaka, who is very good defensively but they are lacking half a defence basically so if they ever play a bit more openly they will get caught out. Even then you ideally need 4 good fullbacks and 4 good CBs to compete for titles.

We are no different. We have issues at LB and CB except Tomori and Rudiger (who can play much much better). Zouma will never suit us if we continue down the path we are going, he still struggles reading the game and playing out from the back. I do still have a slight hope that Christensen can turn it around but if he is here next season and doesn't really improve he could go. Well thats if Frank is going to be ruthless like he was with Luiz. Few others in the same situation in other positions. 

Maguire for 80mn is still nowhere near as good as he was ever made out to be and while Shaw has kicked on he has really not hit the heights you'd have expected (although his consistency has improved a bit but he would be a bench player at City or Liverpool). Their roles in that goal v Spurs the other night was shocking, laughable really, Maguire looked like a Championship player the way he was beaten and Shaw just didn't look around him and ran forward without thinking. 

The overall quality of defenders in the PL really has decreased though. Bar van Dijk and Laporte who for me are the standout ones, I don't really see any real quality at other teams. Guys like Joe Gomez, Lindelof, Rudi, Matip, Vertonghen and Alderweireld as well as a few others I will have missed are maybe in/were the bracket below but even then the gap between those and VVD and Laporte is big. That young Turkish fella at Leicester has got potential but I do think he has to be careful guys like Christensen and Davinson Sanchez have done well then faded so will reserve proper judgement to see how he does next season.
 

It is weird though at a lot of clubs, I get the feeling coaches don't seem to focus on defensive set plays or shape anywhere near as much now and it has shown more than ever in the last 7 or 8 years in British football imo. 

 

I personally disagree saying that the level of cb has drop. IMO team are becoming more offensive and pressing is becoming more important, it is very rare to see big team to play in deep defensive line.