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Manuf

By Manuf,
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Finally have internet so I'll be posting more. In other news here is some photos of my son

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Talking of marriage and seeing as the thread is already de-railed - I got married at the weekend It was amazing - hired a marquee and had Dodgems and a carousel along with a double decker bus convert

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CHOULO19

CHOULO19 24,332

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Nice!! You know your Kant on intersubjectivity! Awesome, respect or that!! True, i have more of a positivist approach on the matter. Hence the confusion. Why ... Because of Hitler for example. So many people voted or him, did that make him say objective things? Numerous examples apply, but I forgive Kant. He lived in his own time frame and philosophy has moved on quite a bit :-) Again: respect!

I think Kant's opinion on this matter still applies if you admit that objectivity is relative (as self-contradictory as that may sound :lol: ). Because any statement, be it opinion or "fact" (I don't like that word :P) is relativistic to a time and a group. Just like "the earth is flat and the center of the universe" was a fact 1200 years ago and just like I'm sure some aliens from Andromeda won't find "Kagawa was good at Dortmund" objective! :P

I guess I call Hitler's "philosophy" objective relative to the German society in the 1930's.

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Stingray

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I think Kant's opinion on this matter still applies if you admit that objectivity is relative (as self-contradictory as that may sound :lol: ). Because any statement, be it opinion or "fact" (I don't like that word :P) is relativistic to a time and a group. Just like "the earth is flat and the center of the universe" was a fact 1200 years ago and just like I'm sure some aliens from Andromeda won't find "Kagawa was good at Dortmund" objective! :P

I guess I call Hitler's "philosophy" objective relative to the German society in the 1930's.

Ow you silly postmodernist! Lol! Thou shallt not drag me into an objectivist/subjectivist debate on a football forum!

People already hate me for the memes. Go figure how popular i'd be once we hit quantumphysics or qualia in the debate :-) lmao!

Edit: shit! I cant resist! Objectivity in my sense refers to a 'taste of the pudding is in the eating' definition of truth (correspondance idea instead of identity idea). So, the matter on who is best will be one to be determined after the eating . After their careers so to speak, not because a lot of forum members think it is true NOW :-) lol!! Commit that to the flames as Hume would say. Uch opinions contain nothing but sophistry ...

Ps: you are evil, @choulo19 !

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CHOULO19

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Ow you silly postmodernist! Lol! Thou shallt not drag me into an objectivist/subjectivist debate on a football forum!

People already hate me for the memes. Go figure how popular i'd be once we hit quantumphysics or qualia in the debate :-) lmao!

Edit: shit! I cant resist! Objectivity in my sense refers to a 'taste of the pudding is in the eating' definition of truth (correspondance idea instead of identity idea). So, the matter on who is best will be one to be determined after the eating . After their careers so to speak, not because a lot of forum members think it is true NOW :-) lol!! Commit that to the flames as Hume would say. Uch opinions contain nothing but sophistry ...

Ps: you are evil, @choulo19 !

I'll reply in a few minutes..

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CHOULO19

CHOULO19 24,332

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Ow you silly postmodernist! Lol! Thou shallt not drag me into an objectivist/subjectivist debate on a football forum!

People already hate me for the memes. Go figure how popular i'd be once we hit quantumphysics or qualia in the debate :-) lmao!

Edit: shit! I cant resist! Objectivity in my sense refers to a 'taste of the pudding is in the eating' definition of truth (correspondance idea instead of identity idea). So, the matter on who is best will be one to be determined after the eating . After their careers so to speak, not because a lot of forum members think it is true NOW :-) lol!! Commit that to the flames as Hume would say. Uch opinions contain nothing but sophistry ...

Ps: you are evil, @choulo19 !

Hahaha I literally just "LOL"ed at the first part to the annoyance of my sleeping parents :lol:

The second part is where we disagree mon frere. I don't believe there is a truth but rather truths to every matter that change according to the time frame, and to the place not unlike opinions. My problem with the correspondence theory of truth is that it tries to define the mysterious concept of truth with an even more vague concept of "a" reality. The thing is everyone perceives reality different than others according to what he wants it to be, as I'm sure you as a psychologist know (How do you know that I see blue the same way you do). And everyone is convinced that his reality is true. But if there are infinite "customized" realities, and no one can see the reality, does it really exist?

The second objection is that truth changes with time. To go back to your Hitler example, had the Germans won the war, the Nazi principle would be consider now "objective" around the world instead of the capitalist principles and the truth about the war would have been what the Nazis would have written instead of what the Allies have written or what actually happened (the truth at the moment any event happened)

Now before you give that look, let me ask you this: Is there a reason that truth should exist other than that we want it to? And if that is the case wouldn't that make truth (and 'a' reality for that matter) an illusion? Isn't that how Freud defined illusion? Not something that exists (is correct) or not but rather that it is a belief that is motivated by desire, regardless if it is true or not.

(Epistemology is truly the most interesting and confusing subject in metaphysics if not all of philosophy)

Now to go back to the original point, I believe that there will be infinite and ever-changing truths and objectiveness to any point, granted that the change is swift in the time interval of the event (or subject) and that the fluctuations in the truth decrease as you go further in the future, but since an ultimate truth does not exist or we can't turn around to see it (think of Plato's shadows on the cave wall analogy) we might as well discuss who is currently better between Hazard and Kagawa according to our current truths.

PS: I had just gotten into bed and was about to sleep when I saw your reply on my phone, and I couldn't resist but to get up, turn my laptop back on give this lengthy response :lol: If I am sleepy in class tomorrow, it's all your fault! :P

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