Stingray 9,441 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I think Kant's opinion on this matter still applies if you admit that objectivity is relative (as self-contradictory as that may sound ). Because any statement, be it opinion or "fact" (I don't like that word ) is relativistic to a time and a group. Just like "the earth is flat and the center of the universe" was a fact 1200 years ago and just like I'm sure some aliens from Andromeda won't find "Kagawa was good at Dortmund" objective! I guess I call Hitler's "philosophy" objective relative to the German society in the 1930's. Ow you silly postmodernist! Lol! Thou shallt not drag me into an objectivist/subjectivist debate on a football forum! People already hate me for the memes. Go figure how popular i'd be once we hit quantumphysics or qualia in the debate :-) lmao!Edit: shit! I cant resist! Objectivity in my sense refers to a 'taste of the pudding is in the eating' definition of truth (correspondance idea instead of identity idea). So, the matter on who is best will be one to be determined after the eating . After their careers so to speak, not because a lot of forum members think it is true NOW :-) lol!! Commit that to the flames as Hume would say. Uch opinions contain nothing but sophistry ... Ps: you are evil, @choulo19 ! CHOULO19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Ow you silly postmodernist! Lol! Thou shallt not drag me into an objectivist/subjectivist debate on a football forum! People already hate me for the memes. Go figure how popular i'd be once we hit quantumphysics or qualia in the debate :-) lmao!Edit: shit! I cant resist! Objectivity in my sense refers to a 'taste of the pudding is in the eating' definition of truth (correspondance idea instead of identity idea). So, the matter on who is best will be one to be determined after the eating . After their careers so to speak, not because a lot of forum members think it is true NOW :-) lol!! Commit that to the flames as Hume would say. Uch opinions contain nothing but sophistry ... Ps: you are evil, @choulo19 !I'll reply in a few minutes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray 9,441 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I'll reply in a few minutes..Ill read it tomorrow then my philosopher friend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Ow you silly postmodernist! Lol! Thou shallt not drag me into an objectivist/subjectivist debate on a football forum!People already hate me for the memes. Go figure how popular i'd be once we hit quantumphysics or qualia in the debate :-) lmao!Edit: shit! I cant resist! Objectivity in my sense refers to a 'taste of the pudding is in the eating' definition of truth (correspondance idea instead of identity idea). So, the matter on who is best will be one to be determined after the eating . After their careers so to speak, not because a lot of forum members think it is true NOW :-) lol!! Commit that to the flames as Hume would say. Uch opinions contain nothing but sophistry ...Ps: you are evil, @choulo19 !Hahaha I literally just "LOL"ed at the first part to the annoyance of my sleeping parents The second part is where we disagree mon frere. I don't believe there is a truth but rather truths to every matter that change according to the time frame, and to the place not unlike opinions. My problem with the correspondence theory of truth is that it tries to define the mysterious concept of truth with an even more vague concept of "a" reality. The thing is everyone perceives reality different than others according to what he wants it to be, as I'm sure you as a psychologist know (How do you know that I see blue the same way you do). And everyone is convinced that his reality is true. But if there are infinite "customized" realities, and no one can see the reality, does it really exist?The second objection is that truth changes with time. To go back to your Hitler example, had the Germans won the war, the Nazi principle would be consider now "objective" around the world instead of the capitalist principles and the truth about the war would have been what the Nazis would have written instead of what the Allies have written or what actually happened (the truth at the moment any event happened)Now before you give that look, let me ask you this: Is there a reason that truth should exist other than that we want it to? And if that is the case wouldn't that make truth (and 'a' reality for that matter) an illusion? Isn't that how Freud defined illusion? Not something that exists (is correct) or not but rather that it is a belief that is motivated by desire, regardless if it is true or not.(Epistemology is truly the most interesting and confusing subject in metaphysics if not all of philosophy)Now to go back to the original point, I believe that there will be infinite and ever-changing truths and objectiveness to any point, granted that the change is swift in the time interval of the event (or subject) and that the fluctuations in the truth decrease as you go further in the future, but since an ultimate truth does not exist or we can't turn around to see it (think of Plato's shadows on the cave wall analogy) we might as well discuss who is currently better between Hazard and Kagawa according to our current truths.PS: I had just gotten into bed and was about to sleep when I saw your reply on my phone, and I couldn't resist but to get up, turn my laptop back on give this lengthy response If I am sleepy in class tomorrow, it's all your fault! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmpr 8,977 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 GET OUT OF HERE! Grab a beer, start drinking and talk about big boobs... Stingray 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif 6,006 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 My cat just killed and brought home a rabbit. Should I be polite and have it for dinner tomorrow? He keeps meowing at me and purring at my ankles when I go near the rabbit. Rmpr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoChelsea 4,064 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 My cat just killed and brought home a rabbit. Should I be polite and have it for dinner tomorrow? He keeps meowing at me and purring at my ankles when I go near the rabbit.Yes. Rabbits can be deadly so your cat is protecting you nicely. Rmpr and Leif 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 12,049 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I hate cats, maybe you should destroy it. Blue-in-me-Veins and Amblève. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmpr 8,977 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I hate cats, maybe you should destroy it.SHUT THE FUCK UP! How can you not love this (i didnt like cats either): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif 6,006 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Hating this should be illegal Rmpr and The Skipper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmpr 8,977 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Hating this should be illegalGuess I will need to buy something similar.Currently a no-toy cat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skipper 20,609 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 You guys are making me want to have a cat now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion 2,476 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Dogs > cats. Hutcho, DJames and Blue-in-me-Veins 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmpr 8,977 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Dogs > cats.Dogs need care and they are everything but independent. Aint nobody got time for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kezza 1,965 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Cats suck cause everything is on their terms. Nobody owns a cat, they own you! Blue-in-me-Veins and Amblève. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 10,227 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 My cat owns, this is chelsea! James and Rmpr 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion 2,476 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Dogs need care and they are everything but indendent. Aint nobody got time for that...Dogs can protect you and your house. Some dogs will give their lives for you. Cats would laugh when you're dying and take a shit on your dead body. If you want a companion you get a dog, if you want a cat you get a cat, because there's no other reason to choose them.Dogs are always happy to see you come back and always welcoming to cuddling, cats only do things on their own terms and are useless as shit. Not saying I don't like cats, I do. But dogs are way better. Hutcho and Kezza 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmpr 8,977 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Dogs can protect you and your house. Some dogs will give their lives for you. Cats would laugh when you're dying and take a shit on you dead body. If you want a companion you get a dog, if you want a cat you get a cat, because there's no other reason to choose them.Dogs are always happy to see you come back and always welcoming to cuddling, cats only do things on their own terms and are useless as shit. Not saying I don't like cats, I do. But dogs are way better.So what? They smell bad and they are like babies doing stupid things all the time. They also need an absurd amount of treatment and attention. Dogs will only sufer when you are not there and because of that you end up not doing some of the things you would like to do...Yes, dogs are a much much better companion, but look at how many things you need to do for the pet. Cats demand nothing from their owner (I simply clean the box once a day, play with him for 40min/day and give him water and food), he lives his life and I live mine. He doesnt bother me with his smell or loud barking, but he doesnt protect me in return. You get what you work for!If you want a companion, get a girlfriend. If you want a baby, just make one. Dogs are oftenly mistaken and replacing 'family spots' simply because it is damm easy to spend a few hundreds on the pet shop. A lot of people want dogs for the wrong reasons. I dont see it happening with cats.I am not a cats' lover nor a dogs' hater. But my brother had a dog once and I can tell, I much prefer my new cat. Waaaay more good looking and no work at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmpr 8,977 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I just fucking need to sleep but I cant! This will be the third time I try to turn-off the iPad and stay looking at the celling waiting for me to magically fall asleep...I bet it will be 5am when I finally sleep and I will have 2-3 hours before I go to class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray 9,441 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Hahaha I literally just "LOL"ed at the first part to the annoyance of my sleeping parents The second part is where we disagree mon frere. I don't believe there is a truth but rather truths to every matter that change according to the time frame, and to the place not unlike opinions. My problem with the correspondence theory of truth is that it tries to define the mysterious concept of truth with an even more vague concept of "a" reality. The thing is everyone perceives reality different than others according to what he wants it to be, as I'm sure you as a psychologist know (How do you know that I see blue the same way you do). And everyone is convinced that his reality is true. But if there are infinite "customized" realities, and no one can see the reality, does it really exist?The second objection is that truth changes with time. To go back to your Hitler example, had the Germans won the war, the Nazi principle would be consider now "objective" around the world instead of the capitalist principles and the truth about the war would have been what the Nazis would have written instead of what the Allies have written or what actually happened (the truth at the moment any event happened)Now before you give that look, let me ask you this: Is there a reason that truth should exist other than that we want it to? And if that is the case wouldn't that make truth (and 'a' reality for that matter) an illusion? Isn't that how Freud defined illusion? Not something that exists (is correct) or not but rather that it is a belief that is motivated by desire, regardless if it is true or not.(Epistemology is truly the most interesting and confusing subject in metaphysics if not all of philosophy)Now to go back to the original point, I believe that there will be infinite and ever-changing truths and objectiveness to any point, granted that the change is swift in the time interval of the event (or subject) and that the fluctuations in the truth decrease as you go further in the future, but since an ultimate truth does not exist or we can't turn around to see it (think of Plato's shadows on the cave wall analogy) we might as well discuss who is currently better between Hazard and Kagawa according to our current truths.PS: I had just gotten into bed and was about to sleep when I saw your reply on my phone, and I couldn't resist but to get up, turn my laptop back on give this lengthy response If I am sleepy in class tomorrow, it's all your fault! I'll andwer when I get back from work :-) Ps: I am out of likes so couldnt like your post, sorry causeitis good! Ps2: never said I was a psych:-) I graduated in philosophy actually but did and do my phd research in the crossvsevtion of philosophy and psychology. So yeah, I love that shit :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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