Ramires

[Sheva. 5,373]

Would you guys prefer to see Ramires in a double pivot or in a midfield 3?

Lampard (Mikel) - Ramires

Or

Lampard - Mikel - Ramires

Midfield 3 for sure, that's where he is at his best.

Im absolutely sure that now when Meireles is gone, we need to play:

-----------Mikel-------------

Ramires------------------

----------------Oscar------

This will get the best out of Ramires and Oscar and its probably the best midfield we could have. Now im just hoping RDM saw it too and thats the reason he allowed the departure of Meireles.

I said pretty much the same on the Meireles thread. A 3 man midfield makes a lot of sense for us now.

[Jype 6,398]

Would you guys prefer to see Ramires in a double pivot or in a midfield 3?

Lampard (Mikel) - Ramires

Or

Lampard - Mikel - Ramires

A midfield three consisting of Oscar - Mikel - Ramires could be great once Oscar gets more comfortable playing in the Premier League but for now Lampard - Mikel - Ramires is pretty much our best midfield combination. 4-3-3 with those three in midfield and Hazard & Mata constantly alternating positions on the wings could be decent.

I don't think a double pivot of Lampard - Ramires would work all that good as both of them like to get forward a lot and that would leave holes in the midfield too often, but Mikel - Ramires would definitely be worth a try sometime if we're sticking with the 4-2-3-1.

[Ollie 4,400]

So we're all in agreement to ditch the 4-2-3-1 and put Rami back where he belongs and bring back the real Chelsea which is 4-3-3 standard!

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

Formation solved.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Im absolutely sure that now when Meireles is gone, we need to play:

-----------Mikel-------------

Ramires------------------

----------------Oscar------

This will get the best out of Ramires and Oscar and its probably the best midfield we could have. Now im just hoping RDM saw it too and thats the reason he allowed the departure of Meireles.

Makes a lot of sense, really liked it!

Lampard in Oscar position, Romeu in Mikel's, and we need a class CM (ala old Bison) to be the starting in Ramires position...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Formation solved.

Does it make that much of a difference? The Christmas tree formation is slightly more defensive than the 4-2-3-1 with the extra CM, but on the attack one of the three CMs will advance more turning it back to 4-2-3-1. It's main weakness is that it lacks width since we will be playing Mata and Hazard as the two behind the striker.

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

Does it make that much of a difference? The Christmas tree formation is slightly more defensive than the 4-2-3-1 with the extra CM, but on the attack one of the three CMs will advance more turning it back to 4-2-3-1. It's main weakness is that it lacks width since we will be playing Mata and Hazard as the two behind the striker.

Feels like it's more suited to the players we have. Mikel in the lone anchor, Ramires as a box to box, Lampard/Oscar as attacking mid and Hazard and Mata roaming with slightly more protection behind them. We end up playing narrow with both Hazard and Mata on the pitch anyway because they naturally drift inwards so we lack width anyway. We'd keep the ball better (hopefully) without being overrun in midfield. It just makes sense. To me, anyway.

Cech

Ivan - Cahill - JT - Cole

Mikel

Ramires - Lampard

Mata - Hazard

Torres

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Feels like it's more suited to the players we have. Mikel in the lone anchor, Ramires as a box to box, Lampard/Oscar as attacking mid and Hazard and Mata roaming with slightly more protection behind them. We end up playing narrow with both Hazard and Mata on the pitch anyway because they naturally drift inwards so we lack width anyway. We'd keep the ball better (hopefully) without being overrun in midfield. It just makes sense. To me, anyway.

Cech

Ivan - Cahill - JT - Cole

Mikel

Ramires - Lampard

Mata - Hazard

Torres

Then there's no width. Ramires and Lampard are not wingers so Mata and Hazard would have to go out wide which is the biggest problem with moving to a different system. I want a system where Hazard and Mata are the ones running the attack, not just wingers.

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

Did you read the post? I said we lack width anyway when Hazard and Mata both play because they drift inwards. I'm just putting our best 11 (IMO) in their natural positions. You want width, you drop Mata and go back to a 4-3-3 with Marin & Moses out wide.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

@Slam Dunk, but with the current 4-2-3-1 you have (in the normal case) a winger instead of a central midfielder and Hazard deployed on the wing and he showed he can dribble past players on the flank and provide width.

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

Hazard is perfectly capable of playing on the wing, I know. He's not at his best there though, and neither is Mata. It just feels like when you have Bertrand - Mata - Hazard, we become unbalanced, going back and forward. Even more so in the case of Ramires at RW, who decides a RW is someone who plays a mile inside of his fullback when going forward. If you're going to rely on Hazard and Mata to be the attacking impetus of the team, you may as well give them both the freedom with another player protecting them from the midfield.

As I said, it just feels more natural with the players we have. Anyway, back to Ramires...Did anyone see his performance yesterday?

[ANDRECHO 432]

much better?

[laeth 527]

Cole will start instead of Bertrand. Torres will start instead of Sturridge. Stop dreaming.

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

^put mata in midfield instead ls oscar and moses/marin on lw and all is good.

mata should be played where he finished last year and thats cm. the christmas tree can do us well no doubt but thats and awfuly narrow game we'd be playing. i hope RDM plays rambo in cm in a 433 from now on and i think he will. that will drop lamps from playing every game which is good in my eyes becuz we can get best of both worlds.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Hazard is perfectly capable of playing on the wing, I know. He's not at his best there though, and neither is Mata. It just feels like when you have Bertrand - Mata - Hazard, we become unbalanced, going back and forward. Even more so in the case of Ramires at RW, who decides a RW is someone who plays a mile inside of his fullback when going forward. If you're going to rely on Hazard and Mata to be the attacking impetus of the team, you may as well give them both the freedom with another player protecting them from the midfield.

I like Hazard in the middle but I don't understand the "Mata is better when he's not on the wings" thing. He has played almost exclusively as a winger in his career and was better there under AVB than he was in the 4-2-3-1 under RDM last season. I agree that the side becomes absurdly imbalanced when we play with Bertrand or Ramires because neither belong in that position. I think with Moses or Marin on the wing it changes. I think our biggest issue so far is our poor shape. Mata and Hazard are basically duplicating each other. So, against Reading when Ramires started we literally had nobody who was actually playing on the left and a central midfielder on the right and when Bertrand plays we have a LB on the left and nobody on the right. It really imbalances the team and opens up massive avenues on the wings to counter-attack and just creates imbalance all over the field. Chelsea right now are playing with two #10s which you just can't do long-term.

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

It's like i'm back at school

As I said, if the manager is insistent on playing two number 10s in Hazard and Mata, then playing them both on the wings in a 4-3-3 is a waste and so is playing them in a lop-sided 4-2-3-1. The 4-3-2-1 also gives a bit more flexibility into a pure 4-3-3 if you want some width and target the fullbacks (of course it's dependant on the opposition).

I still think we're lacking the great midfield passer to support a fluid front 3, perhaps that's the plan for Oscar, as I dont think Lampard would appreciate the narrowness of it all if he wants to make a trademark late run. If Oscar were to become this, I think it'd work. But let's not get into hypotheticals...

@SeB - Don't know if its a language thing or whatever, but it cheapens your very well written argument somewhat when you refer casually to someone as a cunt.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

@SeB, I am sure you are right with what you wrote, but quite honestly I understood very little of it I guess that's why you're a coach and I'm not

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

That's hugely sarcastic, I feel like I'm the last Malouda fan on earth... I'm just sick to see that Mata or Hazard aren't even doing 20% of Malouda's defensive work when he used to play, still Malouda was regarded as lazy.

Haha I got it. In that case bravo