Gareth Bale

[BlueLion. 21,491]

A winner? He won no trophies at Tottenham. Fair enough he won the CL, Fifa Club World Cup, Super Cup and Copa Del Rey at Real Madrid in 2 seasons but a 25 year old who has won 4 trophies in 9 years, two which are pretty meaningless and are really just exhibition trophies, hardly say hes a really winner (although he did score two goals in those two cup finals), he couldn't inspire a team to win a trophy by himself, inspire others around him in the dressing room to win, I mean he couldn't even get Spurs back in the CL? Winner? Not really in my eyes. People who are winners, are people like Jose, like Drogba, like Messi, like Ronaldo.

What had Drogba won before the age of 25? Even Ronaldo, the bulk of his triumphs have come in the last five years. Just saying. Too early to dismiss him as not being a winner.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

A winner? He won no trophies at Tottenham. Fair enough he won the CL, Fifa Club World Cup, Super Cup and Copa Del Rey at Real Madrid in 2 seasons but a 25 year old who has won 4 trophies in 9 years, two which are pretty meaningless and are really just exhibition trophies, hardly say hes a really winner (although he did score two goals in those two cup finals), he couldn't inspire a team to win a trophy by himself, inspire others around him in the dressing room to win, I mean he couldn't even get Spurs back in the CL? Winner? Not really in my eyes. People who are winners, are people like Jose, like Drogba, like Messi, like Ronaldo.

Ronaldo for me isnt a true winner. He is personal winner, but not someone to give team extra edge in decisive games.

He won one CL (that he completely sucked in final) and one La liga in 5 years.

[DYC. 7,542]

Ronaldo for me isnt a true winner. He is personal winner, but not someone to give team extra edge in decisive games.

He won one CL (that he completely sucked in final) and one La liga in 5 years.

Cristiano was poor in the final, big deal. He's not the first and he won't be the last. His contributions in the previous rounds and group stage, scoring 17 goals I think (a record) and a bunch of assists don't count? And what about his time at Utd? He annoys me with his constant whining, crying and selfish nature, but give the man his credit. He might be egotistical, but he's definitely a true winner.

Real have done poorly in not being able to add a title after 11/12. Really poor. But Barca is some opponent. We all know how it is to simply be inferior. Fans always talk about how good Chelsea was in 2004-2006. Well they were just as good in 2006-2009, Man Utd was better.

[iseah100 5,612]

A winner? He won no trophies at Tottenham. Fair enough he won the CL, Fifa Club World Cup, Super Cup and Copa Del Rey at Real Madrid in 2 seasons but a 25 year old who has won 4 trophies in 9 years, two which are pretty meaningless and are really just exhibition trophies, hardly say hes a really winner (although he did score two goals in those two cup finals), he couldn't inspire a team to win a trophy by himself, inspire others around him in the dressing room to win, I mean he couldn't even get Spurs back in the CL? Winner? Not really in my eyes. People who are winners, are people like Jose, like Drogba, like Messi, like Ronaldo.

It's hard to inspire a team of scrubs to anything meaningful. Bale scored two game winners in cup finals, that constitutes a winner for me.

[Oscar 441]

Bale's crossing would be fantastic.

Also, no one make's runs outside of the Cfs and ramires.

[OneMoSalah 8,616]

What had Drogba won before the age of 25? Even Ronaldo, the bulk of his triumphs have come in the last five years. Just saying. Too early to dismiss him as not being a winner.

Drogba inspired us to win a CL, when I see Bale make that sort of same level contribution to any side (he scored 2 cup final goals but he was hardly the star player in both finals or dragged them there like other players who you consider as winners have done) then I'll change my mind but hes not a winner or somebody who can lead or influences others around him. I'm not saying he isn't a good player, just somebody called him a 'winner' where I disagree.

Ronaldo for me isnt a true winner. He is personal winner, but not someone to give team extra edge in decisive games.

He won one CL (that he completely sucked in final) and one La liga in 5 years.

Sure but he scored like 18 goals in the CL that season, his goals got them there. He is a winner.

It's hard to inspire a team of scrubs to anything meaningful. Bale scored two game winners in cup finals, that constitutes a winner for me.

A team of scrubs? Look at our CL winning season. Kalou, Malouda, Lampard, Bosingwa, Torres... all played in the CL final, we got battered for most of the game but after our goal it was clear to see which way it would go, ever after Drogba gave the penalty away. Big games, big goals, huge winner. Cech, Lampard, Terry, Ivanovic as well... all winners.

[iseah100 5,612]

Drogba inspired us to win a CL, when I see Bale make that sort of same level contribution to any side (he scored 2 cup final goals but he was hardly the star player in both finals or dragged them there like other players who you consider as winners have done) then I'll change my mind but hes not a winner or somebody who can lead or influences others around him. I'm not saying he isn't a good player, just somebody called him a 'winner' where I disagree.

Sure but he scored like 18 goals in the CL that season, his goals got them there. He is a winner.

A team of scrubs? Look at our CL winning season. Kalou, Malouda, Lampard, Bosingwa, Torres... all played in the CL final, we got battered for most of the game but after our goal it was clear to see which way it would go, ever after Drogba gave the penalty away. Big games, big goals, huge winner. Cech, Lampard, Terry, Ivanovic as well... all winners.

DD, Lamps, JT, Cech, Brana, were all aged. Bale is 25 and scored a game winning CL goal. He's clutch, as they say, and is a constant threat. In my book, he's a winner, he got Spurs to the CL. He is a hugely influential player imo.

[DYC. 7,542]

DD, Lamps, JT, Cech, Brana, were all aged. Bale is 25 and scored a game winning CL goal. He's clutch, as they say, and is a constant threat. In my book, he's a winner, he got Spurs to the CL. He is a hugely influential player imo.

Bale got Spurs to the CL? Bale's breakout season was when Spurs played CL football. So that's after making the CL. His first good season overall was 10/11. If you're looking for someone to credit for Spurs' 'succes', I'd say Modric is the guy.

Calling Bale clutch for two goals in two finals is too quick. It took Drogba quite a while to earn that tag. And Ramos is the one that actually equalised in the dying minutes for extra time.

[OneMoSalah 8,616]

DD, Lamps, JT, Cech, Brana, were all aged. Bale is 25 and scored a game winning CL goal. He's clutch, as they say, and is a constant threat. In my book, he's a winner, he got Spurs to the CL. He is a hugely influential player imo.

All aged but all proven winners with that mentality? Bale's won 4 trophies after going 7 years without winning one. Drogba 17 trophies in his career, Lamps 13, JT 16, Cech 15, Ivanovic 10.. talk about age all you want but they were and still are big game players. Bale? Wouldn't agree that hes as hugely influential as made out or a winner.

[iseah100 5,612]

Bale got Spurs to the CL? Bale's breakout season was when Spurs played CL football. So that's after making the CL. His first good season overall was 10/11. If you're looking for someone to credit for Spurs' 'succes', I'd say Modric is the guy.

Calling Bale clutch for two goals in two finals is too quick. It took Drogba quite a while to earn that tag. And Ramos is the one that actually equalised in the dying minutes for extra time.

It may be quick, but he's well on his way to becoming a finals player.

I said Bale scored the game winner[emoji12]

All aged but all proven winners with that mentality? Bale's won 4 trophies after going 7 years without winning one. Drogba 17 trophies in his career, Lamps 13, JT 16, Cech 15, Ivanovic 10.. talk about age all you want but they were and still are big game players. Bale? Wouldn't agree that hes as hugely influential as made out or a winner.

True. I concede. Maybe he's not a winner, YET. But neither were DD, Cech, JT or Lamps at 25. Bale is certainly on his way though and has shown up when his team needs him.

[OneMoSalah 8,616]

It may be quick, but he's well on his way to becoming a finals player.

I said Bale scored the game winner[emoji12]

True. I concede. Maybe he's not a winner, YET. But neither were DD, Cech, JT or Lamps at 25. Bale is certainly on his way though and has shown up when his team needs him.

The fact about their ages doesn't matter. These guys are big game players...

How many times has Bale altered a big game in Real's favor other than the that Copa Del Rey final? Please don't say the CL because Ramos was the guy who scored that vital goal that tipped the scale. Hes not a big game player. Or a big game for Spurs other than Arsenal and Man United? The Inter game is hardly altering it in their favor they were 4-0 down.... If people think hes a big game player that shows up when he needs to then I don't agree.

[iseah100 5,612]

The fact about their ages doesn't matter. These guys are big game players...

How many times has Bale altered a big game in Real's favor other than the that Copa Del Rey final? Please don't say the CL because Ramos was the guy who scored that vital goal that tipped the scale. Hes not a big game player. Or a big game for Spurs other than Arsenal and Man United? The Inter game is hardly altering it in their favor they were 4-0 down.... If people think hes a big game player that shows up when he needs to then I don't agree.

Agree to disagree then. I think he's a class player and would transform us.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Cristiano was poor in the final, big deal. He's not the first and he won't be the last. His contributions in the previous rounds and group stage, scoring 17 goals I think (a record) and a bunch of assists don't count? And what about his time at Utd? He annoys me with his constant whining, crying and selfish nature, but give the man his credit. He might be egotistical, but he's definitely a true winner.

Real have done poorly in not being able to add a title after 11/12. Really poor. But Barca is some opponent. We all know how it is to simply be inferior. Fans always talk about how good Chelsea was in 2004-2006. Well they were just as good in 2006-2009, Man Utd was better.

While I admire Ronaldo's statistics, its nearly impossible to do what he does every year, scoring shitload of goals etc. But IMO he doesnt add enough to game of Real. Compare Messi and Ronaldo and their work FOR the team. Messi adds game of barca to another level, Ronaldo racks up goals in this very good madrid side. But shitload of goals or assists wont win you titles. Cesc for example has many assists, but I doubt he could deliver top performance in certain CL final.

[DYC. 7,542]

While I admire Ronaldo's statistics, its nearly impossible to do what he does every year, scoring shitload of goals etc. But IMO he doesnt add enough to game of Real. Compare Messi and Ronaldo and their work FOR the team. Messi adds game of barca to another level, Ronaldo racks up goals in this very good madrid side. But shitload of goals or assists wont win you titles. Cesc for example has many assists, but I doubt he could deliver top performance in certain CL final.

You don't have to be as good as Messi to be incredible. Messi is on a level only a handful of players in the history of the game have been able to reach.

Messi does indeed give Barca that bit of extra, yeah. But Ronaldo did that for Utd, helping them become the best team in the world. He also does it for Real, but Barca and Messi are better. But again, I do agree they should've done better in the league. These past three years provided the perfect opportunity to add one or two more league titles. But Messi doesn't win Barca titles, it's the collective. Messi was the best player in the world by far in 11/12. He scored 73 goals and provided 23 assists in all competitions for Barca. That a single individual could produce such numbers is simply astonishing, and his 73 goals in one season was a record. Barca finished 2nd in La Liga and went out in the semis of the CL. The collective was not strong enough to win the major titles that year.

Cesc totals 30-40 in goals and assists in his absolute top form. And that's something he can manage maybe two or three seasons in his career. And that's if he's very lucky. Cristiano totals 60+ consistently. That's the difference. Consistency. That's what makes CR and Messi special. No one (in modern football) has been capable of doing that. It's usually a case of two or three stand out seasons for even the very best.

As for CL finals. First I'd like to add, don't forget Ronaldo was not supposed to play the final. He wasn't (match) fit but didn't want to miss the final. But even if you ignore that, inferior players have performed better in a CL final and (arguably) superior players have performed worse. One of my all time favourites for example, Zidane. Juventus reached the final of the CL twice in a row in '97 and '98. They lost both finals. Where was the great Zidane? Why didn't he carry the team and win them the final? How was a man with his god-like talent and ability not capable of making the difference? Not just that, he only managed to win three league titles in his career, despite playing for the best teams in Italy and Spain. He only won the World Cup and European Cup because France was the best team in the world by far at that time. And Ronaldo Fenomeno is overrated as well. He scored a lot of goals but he only won 1 league title and has never won the CL. He's never even managed to lead his team to the final like others, Cristiano for example (3 times), have done. 16 goals in 42 appearances in the CL. Quite frankly, both players are overrated.

See how ridiculous that sounds.

My apologies for the long reply, didn't expect to go on like that.

[communicate 2,703]

While I admire Ronaldo's statistics, its nearly impossible to do what he does every year, scoring shitload of goals etc. But IMO he doesnt add enough to game of Real. Compare Messi and Ronaldo and their work FOR the team. Messi adds game of barca to another level, Ronaldo racks up goals in this very good madrid side. But shitload of goals or assists wont win you titles. Cesc for example has many assists, but I doubt he could deliver top performance in certain CL final.

Kinda agree with this Ronaldo has become some kind of a poacher this days. I feel like all he care about is scoring as many goal as possible.

But for our team I don't mind having goal scoring winger next to hazard. We have our messi in hazard, a creator who can score goal. What we need is our right winger to provide goal threat. I thought schurlle is the perfect guy, but technically he is not that great especially against team who want to press.

There are not many of this kind of player out there, Bale imo is one of them. He may not be the perfect player to play this role but he will provide that goal threat to complement Hazard

[BlueLyon 9,359]

You don't have to be as good as Messi to be incredible. Messi is on a level only a handful of players in the history of the game have been able to reach.

Messi does indeed give Barca that bit of extra, yeah. But Ronaldo did that for Utd, helping them become the best team in the world. He also does it for Real, but Barca and Messi are better. But again, I do agree they should've done better in the league. These past three years provided the perfect opportunity to add one or two more league titles. But Messi doesn't win Barca titles, it's the collective. Messi was the best player in the world by far in 11/12. He scored 73 goals and provided 23 assists in all competitions for Barca. That a single individual could produce such numbers is simply astonishing, and his 73 goals in one season was a record. Barca finished 2nd in La Liga and went out in the semis of the CL. The collective was not strong enough to win the major titles that year.

Cesc totals 30-40 in goals and assists in his absolute top form. And that's something he can manage maybe two or three seasons in his career. And that's if he's very lucky. Cristiano totals 60+ consistently. That's the difference. Consistency. That's what makes CR and Messi special. No one (in modern football) has been capable of doing that. It's usually a case of two or three stand out seasons for even the very best.

As for CL finals. First I'd like to add, don't forget Ronaldo was not supposed to play the final. He wasn't (match) fit but didn't want to miss the final. But even if you ignore that, inferior players have performed better in a CL final and (arguably) superior players have performed worse. One of my all time favourites for example, Zidane. Juventus reached the final of the CL twice in a row in '97 and '98. They lost both finals. Where was the great Zidane? Why didn't he carry the team and win them the final? How was a man with his god-like talent and ability not capable of making the difference? Not just that, he only managed to win three league titles in his career, despite playing for the best teams in Italy and Spain. He only won the World Cup and European Cup because France was the best team in the world by far at that time. And Ronaldo Fenomeno is overrated as well. He scored a lot of goals but he only won 1 league title and has never won the CL. He's never even managed to lead his team to the final like others, Cristiano for example (3 times), have done. 16 goals in 42 appearances in the CL. Quite frankly, both players are overrated.

See how ridiculous that sounds.

My apologies for the long reply, didn't expect to go on like that.

I have to agree with you on this one. Ronaldo is exceptional player obviously, maybe I would explain in this way though; I would prefer someone like Drogba who might not score that many but will win you titles and always work for the team. We never had some superstars in our team ala Zidane, Ronaldo, Kaka etc. but we had a team and I always liked that alot. Messi is the only top top player I would bring here for big money. If I had chance to sign Ronaldo, I dont think I would do it. Not for that crazy money, because what he does in Madrid isnt enough to convince me that he would bring Chelsea as team to next level.

Not to mention Ronaldo at United realy impressed me. But he is now despite still being rated as great as ever, lost alot of his ability. Cant score free kick, long shot, his dribbling is far from consistent against better defenders and he scores too many tap ins nowdays. Real plays for him and in big games if he doesnt score, he is like he wouldnt be playing. Just doesnt cut it for me. Arguably best athlete in football history and one of best individuals ever, but not a natural talent and even less a team player. That said, I admire all the hard work he does to stay at this level even in his 30s.

[Azul 1,615]

I hope he sucks today, that gives us a boost in signing him.

[DYC. 7,542]

I have to agree with you on this one. Ronaldo is exceptional player obviously, maybe I would explain in this way though; I would prefer someone like Drogba who might not score that many but will win you titles and always work for the team. We never had some superstars in our team ala Zidane, Ronaldo, Kaka etc. but we had a team and I always liked that alot. Messi is the only top top player I would bring here for big money. If I had chance to sign Ronaldo, I dont think I would do it. Not for that crazy money, because what he does in Madrid isnt enough to convince me that he would bring Chelsea as team to next level.

Not to mention Ronaldo at United realy impressed me. But he is now despite still being rated as great as ever, lost alot of his ability. Cant score free kick, long shot, his dribbling is far from consistent against better defenders and he scores too many tap ins nowdays. Real plays for him and in big games if he doesnt score, he is like he wouldnt be playing. Just doesnt cut it for me. Arguably best athlete in football history and one of best individuals ever, but not a natural talent and even less a team player. That said, I admire all the hard work he does to stay at this level even in his 30s.

You mention Drogba. Did Drogba win Chelsea titles? Chelsea's first two titles were won because of a strong collective, Drogba was not even the star man. Drogba was very, very important in 09/10, 14/15 was won with little contribution from the big man.

He scored a lot of cup final goals but to say he won his team triophies is too much credit imo. You have to actually reach finals to win them. Drogba was crucial in the CL win, but was he more important than Cech? Cech who made those incredible saves. Countless amount of saves. The final alone. Bayern created so many chances, but Cech was incredible (poor finishing as well). Cech saved the Robben penalty. Cech was the hero of the penalty shoot out. Cech was the man of the tournament for me, slightly ahead of Drogba, but that's just my opinion. Ramires and Lampard were important too, but plain luck was decisive as well.

But I hear you on Ronaldo (he still scores long shots though, not to mention his headers). It's funny because I sound like a Ronaldo fan right now, when that couldn't be the furthest thing from true. But I recognise his greatness. Or better said, I think he's a great. I think the difference between you and I is that I don't believe in one player winning his team titles. Not consistently. There are some single seasons or a single tournament when a player really carries their team, but impossible over an extended period imo. The collective is everything.