🇦🇷 8. Enzo Fernandez

[LAM09 7,056]

2 hours ago, Special Juan said:

Dressing room divide before a ball is kicked, some will bury the hatchet and crack on, others won't be and that is where the problems will be

As Mikel said in a recent podcast, winning will change things. If we have a bad start & Enzo is ever present, our season could be over before we know it.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

4 hours ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

Club consider the situation closed.

 

Still not convinced this will be last we hear of it and does anyone else think that this is a bit of a weak punishment?

Would expect him to be put on some sort of anti racism awareness/education course (is that even the right word) plus fined heavy as well.

But a donation is a donation and if this is it “settled” in the squad I suppose we will see. Racism tends to not be dealt with as easily. FIFA should throw the book at him and Argentina though so cannot be any moaning from our side if things end up much more severe. 

[DH1988 1,348]

Long balls were very good, where from? Deep. Shock. Not bloody #10!! No one doubts the talent but it's game 1 and he's already throwing his hands up because others aren't pressing with him.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

22 hours ago, DH1988 said:

Long balls were very good, where from? Deep. Shock. Not bloody #10!! No one doubts the talent but it's game 1 and he's already throwing his hands up because others aren't pressing with him.

A good few of times v City when he’s pressing it was either too soon or too late. Or he’s dragging himself out of the teams shape to go press, which I get the enthusiasm but have to be smart, go at the right time etc. But 100% he’s not a 10 and sooner Maresca learns that the better. 

His attitude and body language has concerned me for a while, particularly last season. No doubt talented but £106m you expect a lot more and should really play a lot more consistently.

He has probably had smoke blown up his arse in the whole charm offensive to get him here, has the 8 year deal, the number 8 shirt, likely been told how the club see him as a key cog for the present and future but he needs to seriously perform. And Maresca has to be bold enough to leave him out if he doesn’t. 

Throwing his arms about shit is pretty petty from a 23 year old who hasn’t achieved anything for the club as of yet. Yes demand more from others and yourself but do it in the right way. Hate seeing this in football. Irritates the fucking life out of me. 

[DH1988 1,348]

15 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

A good few of times v City when he’s pressing it was either too soon or too late. Or he’s dragging himself out of the teams shape to go press, which I get the enthusiasm but have to be smart, go at the right time etc. But 100% he’s not a 10 and sooner Maresca learns that the better. 

His attitude and body language has concerned me for a while, particularly last season. No doubt talented but £106m you expect a lot more and should really play a lot more consistently.

He has probably had smoke blown up his arse in the whole charm offensive to get him here, has the 8 year deal, the number 8 shirt, likely been told how the club see him as a key cog for the present and future but he needs to seriously perform. And Maresca has to be bold enough to leave him out if he doesn’t. 

Throwing his arms about shit is pretty petty from a 23 year old who hasn’t achieved anything for the club as of yet. Yes demand more from others and yourself but do it in the right way. Hate seeing this in football. Irritates the fucking life out of me. 

It's odd because all I want to see as a baseline is someone running their socks off like any fan would given a chance at donning the shirt, which he did vs City but you're completely right he took the shape out, allowed the midfield bypass and Im thinking to myself buddy you aren't fooling anyone here running around like a chicken when you aren't supposed to be at that time. Lavia and Caicedo often didn't have any options due him not being in the one touch range which lead to us going backwards. 

It's one game, blah blah blah, the difference is we've seen enough of Enzo further forward to know it doesn't work, similarly he gets breezed past being deeper but pings balls everywhere, it's definitely a conundrum. No one doubts his ability, remember the Liverpool game last year? Unreal individual performance, but I'm not sure he fits us, £100m+ problem.

[ChrissWTF 10]

My Captain !!!

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

Rewatching  the extended highlights, I noticed how many poor controls he had. Esp in the city box on 3 instances when an easy pass pinged 5m off him only for him to go to ground under minimal contact when chasing after it. He really was never an elite player technically but his presence is just annoying with his wannabe leader antics. Embarrassing. Quickly becoming the Sterling of midfielders. We know he can do better as soon as Maresca stops playing him out of position. 

[YorkshireBlue 3,277]

15 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Rewatching  the extended highlights, I noticed how many poor controls he had. Esp in the city box on 3 instances when an easy pass pinged 5m off him only for him to go to ground under minimal contact when chasing after it. He really was never an elite player technically but his presence is just annoying with his wannabe leader antics. Embarrassing. Quickly becoming the Sterling of midfielders. We know he can do better as soon as Maresca stops playing him out of position. 

Not sure what position gives you a better first touch tbh

[Pizy 18,928]

15 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Rewatching  the extended highlights, I noticed how many poor controls he had. Esp in the city box on 3 instances when an easy pass pinged 5m off him only for him to go to ground under minimal contact when chasing after it. He really was never an elite player technically but his presence is just annoying with his wannabe leader antics. Embarrassing. Quickly becoming the Sterling of midfielders. We know he can do better as soon as Maresca stops playing him out of position. 

Simply is not suited at all for this role that numerous managers have now tried him in. As far as his technical ability I disagree. Remember that performance he had against Liverpool last season in particular? He ran the game and danced through their midfield over and over again. He was amazing playing deeper then. But for whatever reason managers keep experimenting with him high up the pitch. Even during this latest Copa America the Argentina manager initially played him high up, it didn’t work there either, and then he moved deeper and was better.

Perhaps they’re afraid of him getting breezed past defensively when he’s deep? Idk, but with both Caicedo and Lavia that’s less of a concern for me. For me, if Enzo plays against the very biggest teams he HAS to play deep or not at all. 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

25 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Not sure what position gives you a better first touch tbh

Haha good point but you have to see it in context. When he is making a run into the box closely marked  like vs city he has less time and more pressure to make a proper connection. A lose control will be an instant turnover . I don’t think he always miscontrols these kind of balls but he is more likely to when in a more advanced position which he is less experienced at at the top level.
When he receives the ball deeper in midfield he does not necessarily need to touch it towards goal but has more options to divert it away from the opponent. Plus a pass in midfield is more likely to be a straightforward ball without much spin. The flat crosses he miscontrolled vs city were fizzed in. 

[King Kante 1,643]

49 minutes ago, Pizy said:

For me, if Enzo plays against the very biggest teams he HAS to play deep or not at all. 

Pretty much this. He has to play in the pivot. At no point should he be played as an AM, despite how much he may want to. 

[IMissEden 21]

He wants to play a way wherein he in a regular midfield is the one who always ends up edge of the box, same as with Argentina and Benfica. He has not pined to be deployed and stay behind the striker. That’s a social media narrative. He wants instructions and system that supports himself being the most advanced midfielder. Essentially Lampard role. 
 

edit to add - key being, the right balanced approach in achieving this, as opposed to the unbalanced approaches so far that leave too much behind him, and thus too much expectation for him to perform defensively / or be more reserved going forward. Either or mounts pressure, which effects his primary output. It’s set up to fail, as so far is the case with Nkunku, will keep tying him to Enzo chat, so it’s seen better. Nkunku looked like Tammy. Explain that. They both suffer here. They are showing glimpses of what’s above them. 

All said, Enzo had the most goal scoring opportunities, while also creating the most goals scoring opportunities, vs City. First game of season, most unstable shoddy club impersonating top clubs today. Half-baked Narratives are easier to go along with than not. Football to politics, the most common input comes from passing the buck and riding the train of others opinions. Which is why most fans are wrong every year when it comes to who’s good and who isn’t. Every few weeks a new Take is cooked up and becomes a “thought” so many share. 

Edited August 20, 2024 by IMissEden

[YorkshireBlue 3,277]

58 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Haha good point but you have to see it in context. When he is making a run into the box closely marked  like vs city he has less time and more pressure to make a proper connection. A lose control will be an instant turnover . I don’t think he always miscontrols these kind of balls but he is more likely to when in a more advanced position which he is less experienced at at the top level.
When he receives the ball deeper in midfield he does not necessarily need to touch it towards goal but has more options to divert it away from the opponent. Plus a pass in midfield is more likely to be a straightforward ball without much spin. The flat crosses he miscontrolled vs city were fizzed in. 

I just feel even playing deeper in this league he won't the time he needs.

[robsblubot 3,595]

2 hours ago, YorkshireBlue said:

I just feel even playing deeper in this league he won't the time he needs.

Maybe. Evidence to the contrary was the last Copa America. He played deeper and did very well (winner too); he was just as wasteful closer to the opposition goal too.

The last copa America was played in NFL football fields, which are narrower (and slightly shorter), which made "time on the ball" inexistent. 

Edited August 20, 2024 by robsblubot

[Vegetable 830]

Time on ball is one thing, opposition players is another. This seems to be typical problem with people who look great in slow-motion leagues. Suddenly the "easiest" opponent in PL runs faster, thinks faster, acts faster, has twice the muscle mass and twice broader vision, than most difficult opponent from Portugal or WC and has already tactically worked out your next five moves. National Teams, even the top ones, still rely more on freestyle and individual talent because what kind of tactical sophistication can you pull during four training sessions with people you see twice a year. Either keep your head down, work hard and adapt or be forgotten, as I don't thing trying to boss around to make up for the difference is no way to do it. I think almost every player coming to PL have to make significant step up to keep up and not everyone is able to. 

Edited August 20, 2024 by Vegetable

[robsblubot 3,595]

I happen to believe it's all about skill and Enzo has plenty, so I still think he's got the tools to deliver at this level.

If you take the CMs in the absolute best teams in the world you will see an abundance of skill; yes, even the energetic mobile players will be excellent on the ball. It's pretty much the same if we focus on the PL. The top clubs have an abundance of skill in midfield as in passing machines. The less good clubs would have more of mix with "fighters" and "physical" players in there.

That's from observation, and not really a completely formed opinion.

Edited August 21, 2024 by robsblubot

[IMissEden 21]

2 games in a row now cutting the opposition open and playing passes -nobody in the top 5 leagues- are. Wake up. 

[Mário César 1,278]

how we paid so much money for him?

what a waste of money

[milka 3,393]

He is a problem - not a number 8 , not a number 6 he cannot be box to box cuz he is lazy very unbalanced middle because of him Caicedo cannot do everything alone that's why Gallagher is much value by the true fans cuz you can see the chemestry he gave to the team last year but these clowns don't give a shit they care only for money . Some fans (football manager specialist) same dont' give a shit about proper Chelsea like Gallagher  , Chalobah (our best defender with Tiago and they replace him with Tosin on free  what a comedy)

Edited September 1, 2024 by milka

[Mário César 1,278]

7 minutes ago, milka said:

He is a problem - not a number 8 , not a number 6 he cannot be box to box cuz he is lazy very unbalanced middle because of him Caicedo cannot do everything alone that's why Gallagher is much value by the true fans cuz you can see the chemestry he gave to the team last year but these clowns don't give a shit they care only for money . Some fans (football manager specialist) same dont' give a shit about proper Chelsea like Gallagher  , Chalobah (our best defender with Tiago and they replace him with Tosin on free  what a comedy)

and add goalkeeper problems