Andrey Santos

[bluesman2610 1,226]

These were the stats from that game. Kid needs consistency but I believe he can be a player

[OhForAGreavsie 5,775]

On 20/01/2023 at 17:59, YorkshireBlue said:

Did you not like what you saw? 

When he was linked I watched some highlights and liked them enough to move to the next stage and find a couple of all touches videos. Those put doubt in my mind and I posted that I was in no hurry to see him brought in. The Peru game illustrated nothing positive. No great touch, no exceptional body control, no outstanding passing, not even any noticeable physicality. All in all, the video above offers no evidence whatsoever to support the decision to buy Andrey.

Edited January 24, 2023 by OhForAGreavsie

[OhForAGreavsie 5,775]

14 hours ago, bluesman2610 said:

These were the stats from that game. Kid needs consistency but I believe he can be a player

First of all ignore the goal. Giving Andrey any credit for it would be misleading. Even more misleading than the rest of those numbers. As for the 88% pass accuracy, a fair few completions came with him stationed in two acres of space, behind his back four and taking all the time he wants to roll the ball forwards to one of his defenders! Ignore all of that nonsense too.

The Peru display was a masterclass in ordinariness. I grant you that it was possible to produce a good looking highlights compilation of Andrey across I don't know how many games, but every all touches video I have seen of him so far has been deeply underwhelming. The Peru outing most of all.

Edited January 21, 2023 by OhForAGreavsie

[DDA 9,570]

On 20/01/2023 at 20:23, OhForAGreavsie said:

When he was linked I watched some highlights and liked them enough to find a couple of all touches videos. Those put enough doubt in my mind for me to post that I was in no hurry to see him brought in. The Peru game illustrated nothing positive. No great touch, no exceptional body control, no outstanding passing, not even any noticeable physicality. All in all the video above offers no evidence whatsoever to support the decision to buy Andrey.

I do understand where you're coming from watching the highlights of the game vs Peru.... but there's something about him that reminds me of Fernadinho.... a very very raw Fernandinho. He is rated very highly in Brazil... the Brazillians say he is going to be a huge player for them in the future..... I will say its hard to see at the moment... but I think this lad needs proper coaching. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,775]

12 minutes ago, DDA said:

I do understand where you're coming from watching the highlights of the game vs Peru.... but there's something about him that reminds me of Fernadinho.... a very very raw Fernandinho. He is rated very highly in Brazil... the Brazillians say he is going to be a huge player for them in the future..... I will say its hard to see at the moment... but I think this lad needs proper coaching. 

Seems that our recruiters see this the same way you do. Hopefully the fact that there are so many of them reduces the chances of a 'dud' slipping under the radar. After all, there has to be less chance that two people will make the same mistake and even less chance that three, or four, or five will...

As I say, I'm utterly unconvinced by what I've seen of Andrey but he's here so I have no choice but to put my faith in those who see it differently to the way I do. 🙂 

[NikkiCFC 7,582]

In Argentina midfield was new City player. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by NikkiCFC

[Reddish-Blue 2,223]

On 22/01/2023 at 15:48, OhForAGreavsie said:

Seems that our recruiters see this the same way you do. Hopefully the fact that there are so many of them reduces the chances of a 'dud' slipping under the radar. After all, there has to be less chance that two people will make the same mistake and even less chance that three, or four, or five will...

As I say, I'm utterly unconvinced by what I've seen of Andrey but he's here so I have no choice but to put my faith in those who see it differently to the way I do. 🙂 

You could say that about any 18 year old youngster coming from a foreign league.  Let's give the kid a chance to develop in a solid European league and play a season of football before judging him on highlights.  

[OhForAGreavsie 5,775]

2 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

You could say that about any 18 year old youngster coming from a foreign league.  Let's give the kid a chance to develop in a solid European league and play a season of football before judging him on highlights.  

I'm happy, and eager, to give him that chance but, having watched some all-touches videos, I nevertheless have developed an opinion.

I don't agree that one could say, "I am utterly unconvinced by what I've seen of ... ", about any 18 year old from a foreign league. That is self-evidently not the case. If it were then how would clubs decide which 18 year olds to sign from overseas and which to pass? Clubs watch players and form an opinion. Just as I have. Chelsea will have watched Andrey more thoroughly than I am able to, and should therefore have a stronger basis for their opinion. I recognised this fact when I said that I have no choice but to put my faith in the people who have a different opinion to mine.

The thing I ground my hope in is that Andrey's highlights videos are more impressive than the all touches ones. That is not always the case.

Edited January 24, 2023 by OhForAGreavsie

[OneMoSalah 8,614]

Intrigued to see where he goes, he certainly looks ordinary playing for that Brazil u20 team though.

Maybe physically he’s more developed than the others (or seems more evident in the game v Argentina than Peru) but even then, technically he looks very very limited. His passing is very basic for someone who has that much time on the ball, very safe in his choices (especially against Peru). If thats the level he’s at he’s going to need a few good loans in Europe to adjust to playing at a faster tempo and under more pressure. 

That clips against Peru looks like the sort of performance your able to go see down at the local park every Sunday. The stats may look good but how many times does he pass it backwards under next to no pressure? How many times does he break the lines? He doesn’t affect the game greatly in any way with the ball which for a midfielder in a team who dominated the ball in the way Brazil did, is pretty useless.

And in the game v Argentina, Brazil didn’t have a lot of the ball so whilst Santos may have scored he was very ineffective in possession. Few decent recoveries and tackles but just looks lost when he has the ball. I’d hate to see a good pressing team go after him. I feel he would be someone to trigger a press on because you’d fancy him either not taking a huge risk in passing it forward or being sloppy in possession.

[NikkiCFC 7,582]

Most impressive thing about him are goals. Scored 7 in last 18 games for Vasco and now 2 in 2 for Brazil. For a DM this is very unusual. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,775]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

Intrigued to see where he goes, he certainly looks ordinary playing for that Brazil u20 team though.

Maybe physically he’s more developed than the others (or seems more evident in the game v Argentina than Peru) but even then, technically he looks very very limited. His passing is very basic for someone who has that much time on the ball, very safe in his choices (especially against Peru). If thats the level he’s at he’s going to need a few good loans in Europe to adjust to playing at a faster tempo and under more pressure. 

That clips against Peru looks like the sort of performance your able to go see down at the local park every Sunday. The stats may look good but how many times does he pass it backwards under next to no pressure? How many times does he break the lines? He doesn’t affect the game greatly in any way with the ball which for a midfielder in a team who dominated the ball in the way Brazil did, is pretty useless.

And in the game v Argentina, Brazil didn’t have a lot of the ball so whilst Santos may have scored he was very ineffective in possession. Few decent recoveries and tackles but just looks lost when he has the ball. I’d hate to see a good pressing team go after him. I feel he would be someone to trigger a press on because you’d fancy him either not taking a huge risk in passing it forward or being sloppy in possession.

I'm sorry to say that I think this is a fair and accurate assessment of what we see in those videos.

Edited January 24, 2023 by OhForAGreavsie

[DDA 9,570]

It's almost like we are watching a parody of the Brazillian footballer when watching those clips.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bit worrying tbf. Europe must see something in him though.

[robsblubot 3,223]

Vasco and Cruzeiro have been in Serie B for a bit, which was odd. Gremio (team I support in BR) dropped last year and came back alongside Vasco and Cruzeiro. For context, all these Brazilian sides are managed by amateurs -- as in the elected president selects the people he/she wants at the club. This invariably leads to quacks (I mean really incompetent almost in a funny way) people managing millions and millions of dollars worth. The result is that 3 years before Gremio was playing Real Madrid in the WCC and last year was in Serie B. Some of these clubs, like Cruzeiro (Ronaldo #9 owns it), now have owners, so they will prob get better organized. Vasco changed too, but dunno about how the ownership works there.

With that out of the way, this was indeed a very odd signing. While everyone sees quality in him, he was yet to play Serie A! in Brazil. And Serie A is the league where washouts like Hulk become the leading goal scorers. Very likely Luis Suarez will score tons for Gremio. So, having done well in Brazil Serie B does not really mean a whole lot.

Oh well, let's hope someone read his potential just right despite the weak opposition.

Edited January 26, 2023 by robsblubot

[Reddish-Blue 2,223]

On 24/01/2023 at 22:35, OhForAGreavsie said:

I'm happy, and eager, to give him that chance but, having watched some all-touches videos, I nevertheless have developed an opinion.

I don't agree that one could say, "I am utterly unconvinced by what I've seen of ... ", about any 18 year old from a foreign league. That is self-evidently not the case. If it were then how would clubs decide which 18 year olds to sign from overseas and which to pass? Clubs watch players and form an opinion. Just as I have. Chelsea will have watched Andrey more thoroughly than I am able to, and should therefore have a stronger basis for their opinion. I recognised this fact when I said that I have no choice but to put my faith in the people who have a different opinion to mine.

The thing I ground my hope in is that Andrey's highlights videos are more impressive than the all touches ones. That is not always the case.

You've basically summarized why clubs play the guessing game with those under 21 players that they sign from overseas.  Sir Alex said it best years ago when he said you have to let these youngsters cut their teeth on loan, learn the hard way, prove to themselves that they are ready for first team football.  

There's definitely raw skill & talent in this kid, we'll get a better gauge of just how far off the pace he is when he goes on loan and has 20+ games under his belt with some decent coaching.   Always found it difficult to judge players from these youth based tournaments as there have been plenty of players over the years that have looked like they are elite but then you hear about them at the age of 22-23 and they're just bang average players. 

[ZAPHOD2319 3,873]

 

[DDA 9,570]

 

Scored again 🤷

[NikkiCFC 7,582]

3 in 3 for DM is very unique thing to see. 

Btw is this video in slow motion or what? 🤭

[NikkiCFC 7,582]