🇩🇪 Timo Werner

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, NikkiCFC said:

No one is comparing him to Morata. I am just messing around. 

Still... 

[Vesper 30,232]

Werner missing chances but blistering pace is invaluable for Lampard’s side 

https://theathletic.com/2244122/2020/12/07/werner-chelsea-speed-premier-league/

When he inadvertently executed a brilliant last-ditch clearance of Olivier Giroud’s goal-bound flick against Leeds United on Saturday, one question that has dogged Timo Werner in recent weeks was inevitably asked again: Does he need a rest?

It was reasonable to wonder. After all, Werner has appeared in 17 of Chelsea’s 18 matches this season, started 16 times and played the most minutes (1,388) of anyone in head coach Frank Lampard’s squad. And that number doesn’t even include the three starts and four total appearances and 253 minutes for Germany in the Nations League during the last two international breaks. Such a gruelling schedule would be enough to leave anyone feeling jaded, mentally if not physically.

Less convenient for that particular narrative, however, were the events of the 93rd minute in that win over Leeds. Tracking back to help protect a 2-1 lead, striker Tammy Abraham poked the ball free to Reece James in the right-back position, who played a clever pass to find Mateo Kovacic in space deep in his own half.

The Croatian slowly advanced towards the halfway line with no obvious passing options — until Werner set off running outside him…

… approximately six seconds, 50 metres and one feeble attempt by Stuart Dallas to pull him back later, the German slowed, steadied himself and rolled the ball across the penalty area for Christian Pulisic to tap in Chelsea’s decisive third. Game over.

As a sequence, it conjured instant memories of the laboured away win over Newcastle United a fortnight earlier, when Werner shook off missing two gilt-edged scoring chances to embark on a similar blistering long-distance run — this time entirely with the ball at his feet — and set up Abraham for the goal that put Chelsea 2-0 up in the 65th minute.

The main takeaways from these moments are two-fold: firstly, that we might have to look beyond notions of fatigue when discussing Werner’s finishing; and secondly, that regardless of whether or not he is converting easy chances, Chelsea’s shiny new striker retains the hugely valuable ability to run really, really fast over long distances at virtually any point in a match.

You can’t teach raw, blistering speed. Ally it with highly refined instincts for finding the most direct route through or around scrambling defenders towards the opposition goal, and it’s easy to see why Lampard prizes what the summer buy from RB Leipzig brings to this Chelsea team even if he isn’t taking his best scoring opportunities.

“I’ve got no worries about Timo,” Lampard insisted on Monday. “He’s come into this league and made a big impact straight away. His speed, his direct nature, the things he creates for the team, the fact that he’s getting lots of chances and makes a lot of chances through his explosive nature and desire to be in the right areas — (those things) I love. I’ve got no worries about him. Timo’s going to be a huge player for this club.

“He’s scored some goals already — of course, he’ll want to be scoring more — and he’s missed a couple. But he’ll keep getting there and he’ll score those goals.”

The advanced numbers back up Lampard’s bullishness: Werner ranks second in the Chelsea squad for goal-creating actions per 90 minutes (0.76) across all competitions this season, behind only Hakim Ziyech (1.33). His non-penalty expected goals (npxG) rating per 90 minutes is 0.42, behind only Giroud (0.65) and Abraham (0.46), while he also ranks third in the squad with 0.15 expected assists (xA) per 90 minutes, behind only Ziyech (0.44) and James (0.20).

Werner’s transition threat in particular, whether operating from the left flank or the right, has been a significant reason why Chelsea’s attack hasn’t suffered much despite Pulisic’s early-season injury problems — a startling fact, when you consider just how integral the American was to the functioning of their team in the final third for long stretches of last season.

The imminent absence of fellow newcomer Ziyech with a hamstring injury, likely for much of Chelsea’s festive schedule, will give Lampard more of a chance to start both in the same attack. If that happens, you can expect to see more teams carved open in transition within a matter of seconds over the next few weeks, as Leeds were at the weekend. If there’s a Premier League blueprint for how they can co-exist, it’s the slick, high-speed combinations between Mohamed Salah and Sadio Mane that have helped make Liverpool a juggernaut in recent seasons.

Werner is similar in style to Salah when deployed on the left of Chelsea’s attack, if not quite comparable in terms of ruthlessness in front of goal just yet.

Lampard is confident the 24-year-old will get there sooner rather than later, but his sheer speed and sharp movement will give opposing defences more than enough to worry about until he does.

[Dan Lee 47]

I believe in Timo. He will score a lot for us. I know that he missed many goals, but I don't worry about it. It happens for everybody at certain time of life. As a fan, I support him no matter what. I see his potential and his contribution to Chelsea. He is a good player.

[NikkiCFC 8,339]

Play him as CF or don't play him at all. 

[R2D2 368]

1 minute ago, NikkiCFC said:

Play him as CF or don't play him at all. 

We don't have any other fit wingers in team, think that's why he keep getting shafted on the wing.

[Jase 43,479]

Hardly a secret that I was over the moon when we signed Werner but really, what was the point of us even signing him when we aren't even utilizing his strengths? Did we buy him only because of his goalscoring numbers at Leipzig? 

Don't get me wrong, am not making excuses for some of the basics that he couldn't do right of late but it's clear as hell that he isn't a winger and yet, he gets put out there to do winger things. Moreover, he did miss a few bad chances in the 2-3 games after the last international break but more recently, we have barely even created any chances for him. So really, what's the point of him then? Why didn't we just go buy an out-and-out winger? 

[Jase 43,479]

10 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

We don't have any other fit wingers in team, think that's why he keep getting shafted on the wing.

Pulisic aside, am pretty sure we had CHO and Ziyech available at the same time at one point but Lampard didn't even bother to try it out.

[Special Juan 28,149]

Until he keeps playing wide we will keep asking the same questions as to why he is not doing it....he needs to be central

[Milan 17,959]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Hardly a secret that I was over the moon when we signed Werner but really, what was the point of us even signing him when we aren't even utilizing his strengths? Did we buy him only because of his goalscoring numbers at Leipzig? 

Don't get me wrong, am not making excuses for some of the basics that he couldn't do right of late but it's clear as hell that he isn't a winger and yet, he gets put out there to do winger things. Moreover, he did miss a few bad chances in the 2-3 games after the last international break but more recently, we have barely even created any chances for him. So really, what's the point of him then? Why didn't we just go buy an out-and-out winger? 

Hey @Hutcho A question for you 

[killer1257 3,282]

The problem is that as long as Giroud keeps scoring goals, I don't see Werner benching Giroud any time soon and he will then most likely play left winger.
Also, if Lampard decides to bench Giroud again for some time, he will leave the club because he always is in contact with french media to make interviews about his future

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[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

The problem is that as long as Giroud keeps scoring goals, I don't see Werner benching Giroud any time soon and he will then most likely play left winger.
Also, if Lampard decides to bench Giroud again for some time, he will leave the club because he always is in contact with french media to make interviews about his future

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Doesn't this then expose Lampard's lack of guts? Fair enough Giroud has scored goals of late but we've gone from Lampard barely using him at all to suddenly using him more frequently, after he threatened to leave in January. 

[killer1257 3,282]

Doesn't this then expose Lampard's lack of guts? Fair enough Giroud has scored goals of late but we've gone from Lampard barely using him at all to suddenly using him more frequently, after he threatened to leave in January. 

I think Werner will make most sense as a CF when ziyech is back into the team. Right now, Girouds aerial threat is a very important weapon to score goals and I would still play Giroud for the time.

It is a big headache to be honest. Giroud is right now the only reliable goal scorer, but lacks pace for our style of play. I would play Giroud until Ziyech is back and then switch Werner into CF position because ziyech plays those through balls to fast players like pulisic or Werner

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[Jase 43,479]

26 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I think Werner will make most sense as a CF when ziyech is back into the team. Right now, Girouds aerial threat is a very important weapon to score goals and I would still play Giroud for the time.

It is a big headache to be honest. Giroud is right now the only reliable goal scorer, but lacks pace for our style of play. I would play Giroud until Ziyech is back and then switch Werner into CF position because ziyech plays those through balls to fast players like pulisic or Werner

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Will that happen? We had CHO and Ziyech available at the same time at some point, even when Pulisic was out, and yet Werner was constantly being used out wide. The one time he played as the main striker was against Southampton and okay, while that game may have suited his strengths but that was really the only time we did that and it has not been seen since. Moreover, Werner is rather similar to Vardy in their game style and if Leicester can make it work with Vardy upfront, then why can't we?

The crossing thing is also another pathetic one. We only ever put high crosses into the box for Giroud/Abraham to score and for Werner/Pulisic etc to somehow win in the air. Where's the variation in the crosses? We've become so predictable with the type of crosses we put in.

[Superblue 6,372]

55 minutes ago, Jason said:

Pulisic aside, am pretty sure we had CHO and Ziyech available at the same time at one point but Lampard didn't even bother to try it out.

During that period though we were playing well and winning games. Tammy looked like he was giving a bit of balance to the team as a focal point for Werner to play off. I think the longer term plan for Lampard was to always play Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech but I can understand a few weeks ago that Lampard stuck with what was working at the time.

As players return I think long term Werner should and will play centrally, because I don't think Tammy or Giroud are good enough to be the first choice, they're both squad players. Hopefully we can get players back as soon as possible to allow us to do this.

[killer1257 3,282]

Will that happen? We had CHO and Ziyech available at the same time at some point, even when Pulisic was out, and yet Werner was constantly being used out wide. The one time he played as the main striker was against Southampton and okay, while that game may have suited his strengths but that was really the only time we did that and it has not been seen since. Moreover, Werner is rather similar to Vardy in their game style and if Leicester make it work with Vardy upfront, then why can't we?
The crossing thing is also another pathetic one. We only ever put high crosses into the box for Giroud/Abraham to score and for Werner/Pulisic etc to somehow win in the air. Where's the variation in the crosses? We've become so predictable with the type of crosses we put in.

To be fair, I think only RJ and Ziyech are able to play different type of crosses. All the others don't have enough quality on the ball to play different crosses.

Werner had 4 scorer in three matches as a CF. His movement is much better as a CF or second striker than left winger.

We will see what Lampard does when Ziyech is fit again, but I expect him to put Werner CF again and Pulisic and Ziyech as the wingers of the team. Lampard does not trust CHO that much, especially at the beginning of the season.


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[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

During that period though we were playing well and winning games. Tammy looked like he was giving a bit of balance to the team as a focal point for Werner to play off. I think the longer term plan for Lampard was to always play Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech but I can understand a few weeks ago that Lampard stuck with what was working at the time.

As players return I think long term Werner should and will play centrally, because I don't think Tammy or Giroud are good enough to be the first choice, they're both squad players. Hopefully we can get players back as soon as possible to allow us to do this.

Fair...but now that things aren't working so well, what are the changes? 

[Superblue 6,372]

8 minutes ago, Jason said:

Fair...but now that things aren't working so well, what are the changes? 

We're pretty hamstrung at the moment with the options available to play a 4-3-3. I suppose the only other option is Pulisic left, Havertz right and Werner central. But Havertz is well off the pace himself at the moment and we can't just flog Pulisic back to another injury.

The only other option I can think of to 'change' it up which may work with the players we have is 3-5-2, pushing Chilwell and James into wing back roles (they are our sole wide options anyway at present), bring Azpi into the back line and play Werner up top with Giroud or Tammy or if Lampard wants to try it, play Havertz in that position and allow him a free role to drift around.

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

The only other option I can think of to 'change' it up which may work with the players we have is 3-5-2, pushing Chilwell and James into wing back roles (they are our sole wide options anyway at present), bring Azpi into the back line and play Werner up top with Giroud or Tammy or if Lampard wants to try it, play Havertz in that position and allow him a free role to drift around.

Precisely what I and I think most others have been thinking. And not to mention, Wolves were the perfect opponent today to go with the back 3 given how well we did against them last season. But nope, Lampard rather fit square pegs in round hole instead. 

[Superblue 6,372]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

Precisely what I and I think most others have been thinking. And not to mention, Wolves were the perfect opponent today to go with the back 3 given how well we did against them last season. But nope, Lampard rather fit square pegs in round hole instead. 

I wouldn't go that far because with Pulisic back we did have the players to still play a 4-3-3 and having had a good run with it i think it would have been hasty to change off the back of one bad result. Its hardly like these performances and results have looked like coming.

A change during the game perhaps should have been made in the second half when we were struggling. Unless Ziyech and CHO are miraculously fit for West Ham though Frank needs to have a long think how to approach that game.

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I wouldn't go that far because with Pulisic back we did have the players to still play a 4-3-3 and having had a good run with it i think it would have been hasty to change off the back of one bad result. Its hardly like these performances and results have looked like coming.

A change during the game perhaps should have been made in the second half when we were struggling. Unless Ziyech and CHO are miraculously fit for West Ham though Frank needs to have a long think how to approach that game.

It still feels like square pegs in round even with Pulisic available.

Werner is not a winger and he looks lost out wide, whether on the LW or RW. Pulisic can only really operate effectively on the LW. That's already a problem. All good when everyone is functioning properly but it looks like we've hit a wall and maybe opponents have already figured us out.

And the reason why I also said today was the perfect time to change to a back 3 is because we have not beaten Nuno's Wolves with a back 4 (D1 L2) but have beaten them with a back 3 (W2).