Jorginho

[MoroccanBlue 5,219]

Give it to him 

[!Hazard! 3,394]

Big balls to execute the final penalty like that. Best player of the tournament

[Superblue 6,333]

Starting to get the recognition he deserves.

He seems to be getting better too, which bodes well for us.

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Starting to get the recognition he deserves.

You made as if he's been great for us...

[NikkiCFC 7,634]

4 minutes ago, Jas said:

You made as if he's been great for us...

'Not everyone understands it'. 

- Maurizio Sarri 🚬

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

'Not everyone understands it'. 

- Maurizio Sarri 🚬

Would say the same to you regarding Mount. 🤪

[Vesper 27,436]

IF Kante had had a tournament like Jorginho has, he would be an absolute LOCK for the Ballon d'Or

but

I think Kante and Jorginho split votes and Lewa may win (plus he will get make-up votes after being robbed last year as they did not award it, which is just FUCKED)

time will tell

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

IF Kante had had a tournament like Jorginho has, he would be an absolute LOCK for the Ballon d'Or

but

I think Kante and Jorginho split votes and Lewa may win (plus he will get make-up votes after being robbed last year as they did not award it, which is just FUCKED)

time will tell

If Messi wins the Copa America, am sure he'll be among the final three. Suspect Lewandowski will be there as well.

Don't think Jorginho will win it even if he wins the Euros with Italy. His impact hasn't been like super WOW on the Italy squad or he hasn't necessarily had a profound impact on both club and country like Modric did when he controversially(?) won it. 

[Vesper 27,436]

3 minutes ago, Jas said:

If Messi wins the Copa America, am sure he'll be among the final three. Suspect Lewandowski will be there as well.

His impact hasn't been like super WOW on the Italy squad or he hasn't necessarily had a profound impact on both club and country like Modric did 

of course he has, especially Italy, but us as well

I am not slating him off anymore, as I am starting to see the difference he makes in the right system

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, Vesper said:

of course he has, especially Italy, but us as well

I am not slating him off anymore, as I am starting to see the difference he makes in the right system

I don't know about Italy but I wouldn't say Jorginho falls into the 'a player we can't do without' category for us. 

[Superblue 6,333]

23 minutes ago, Jas said:

You made as if he's been great for us...

I do think his value is seriously understated at times. He's one of those players that can have 10 great games but all it takes is one bad game and the 'must be sold' comments start rolling out at will.

Obviously under Lampard, he doesn't look the same player because the athletic weaknesses that he does have are magnified in a far less structured system. 

Under Tuchel his weaknesses are less apparent due to the structure around him, and his strengths are in far greater focus.

7 minutes ago, Jas said:

Don't think Jorginho will win it even if he wins the Euros with Italy. His impact hasn't been like super WOW on the Italy squad or he hasn't necessarily had a profound impact on both club and country like Modric did when he controversially(?) won it. 

I personally don't think he'll win the balon d'or but I think your wide of the mark if you don't think he has a profound impact on this Italy squad. The squad and manager himself all recognise him as the main player.

[Pizy 17,868]

Don’t think he was nearly as good today as he has been for the rest of the tournament.

There were quite a few times today where his precise weakness (athletic runners on the quick turnover) was exploited. He still has absolutely zero recovery ability.

Long as Chelsea and Italy have legs around him he’s great to have. Kante, Kova, Veratti, and Barella is some talent he gets to play with.

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I do think his value is seriously understated at times. He's one of those players that can have 10 great games but all it takes is one bad game and the 'must be sold' comments start rolling out at will.

10 great games might be overselling it.

1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Obviously under Lampard, he doesn't look the same player because the athletic weaknesses that he does have are magnified in a far less structured system. 

TBF, even in a rigid system like Sarri's and one that was supposed to let him shine, his lack of athleticism was (is) also a problem.

3 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I think your wide of the mark if you don't think he has a profound impact on this Italy squad. The squad and manager himself all recognise him as the main player.

I said for "club AND country". 

For argument's sake, even if he has a profound impact for club and country, I don't think he's popular or revered enough globally to win the Ballon d'Or, compared to Modric who of course won it some years ago.

[Jase 43,479]

@NikkiCFC If England win the Euros, are you gonna champion for Mount to win the Ballon d'Or, like you do with Jorginho? 😆

[Superblue 6,333]

3 minutes ago, Jas said:

10 great games might be overselling it.

TBF, even in a rigid system like Sarri's and one that was supposed to let him shine, his lack of athleticism was (is) also a problem.

I said for "club AND country". 

For argument's sake, even if he has a profound impact for club and country, I don't think he's popular or revered enough globally to win the Ballon d'Or, compared to Modric who of course won it some years ago.

I'd say the Arsenal and West Brom games that he was particularly poor in are highlighted more than the games that he has played well. Maybe it's because in those games he made individual errors and in games he plays well in he doesn't necessarily do anything that individually stands out. For example, Kante received all of the plaudits (and completely deserved) during the latter stages of the Champions League but I thought Jorginho was excellent along side him, particularly in the second leg against Madrid and the final.

I completely agree with the comment regarding Modric though. I think his win wasn't just for the season he had but there were elements to it of celebrating a player that had been consistently excellent for a number of years and the win almost felt a culmination of that appreciation.

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I'd say the Arsenal and West Brom games that he was particularly poor in are highlighted more than the games that he has played well. Maybe it's because in those games he made individual errors and in games he plays well in he doesn't necessarily do anything that individually stands out. For example, Kante received all of the plaudits (and completely deserved) during the latter stages of the Champions League but I thought Jorginho was excellent along side him, particularly in the second leg against Madrid and the final.

His lack of athleticism aside, think people's main frustration with him is that he doesn't do enough with the ball. He often just passes sideways or backwards (it's fine if we are just trying to kill a game but not when we are trying to break down the opposition) even when there is an opportunity to pass forward and we have seen him play those forward, decisive passes into the final third but he doesn't do it enough. It's a reason why Fabregas, despite having the same weaknesses as Jorginho, was (is) revered much more because of what he does with the ball. 

[Magic Lamps 11,473]

As good as he is for italy ( he was average today but sublime in almost all other games), he can never replicate this form fully. For italy he has 2 somewhat creative-ish players around him who also run a lot in Barella and verrati/locatelli. For us he only has kante whose attacking output is erratic but who runs for 3. so defensively we usually look good if he does not make his 1 every 7 games stupid mistake. But offensively we will never be threatening from midfield with him and Kante there. We could work around that if we had real goalscorer up front but currently we don't so he gets a lot of slack. But given their age, Kante Jorginho is not a long term solution and I sure as hell would like to have a more offensive and athletic midfield for our next great team. Jorginho has his perks and i had to watch a lot of italy games to fully appreciate them but for us I just don't see him giving enough both in terms of athleticism and creativity/attacking output to make us serial title winners again.

[NikkiCFC 7,634]

1 hour ago, Jas said:

@NikkiCFC If England win the Euros, are you gonna champion for Mount to win the Ballon d'Or, like you do with Jorginho? 😆

We were joking about Chris, Emerson, Mount winning it if their NT win EURO so that is in that category.

With Jorginho is serious. And there are many who think the same... Definitely in top10. Today Barella and Verratti both got replaced and 3 attackers but not only Jorginho.