🇫🇷 Tiemoue Bakayoko

[lucio 5,418]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

What does the fee have to do with Bakayoko's passing? As you alluded to, he's only 23 and there's still plenty of room for improvement. On top of that, passing is an attribute that can be improved on over time. It's not like pace or speed. Worth remembering that Kante was hardly great with his passing either when he joined us but after 1 1/2 years of emphasis and work with Conte, he's gotten better at it.

you shouldnt be dropping 40m on players who dont even have average passing technique. When have technically poor players become gppd passers previously? oscar didnt, ramires didnt. He's been practising passing fpr probably 17 years, theres only so much a manager can do in this regard, conte can help him apply himself better, and improve tactically - but those passes are still going to skid out of play

[Pizy 18,909]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

What does the fee have to do with Bakayoko's passing? As you alluded to, he's only 23 and there's still plenty of room for improvement. On top of that, passing is an attribute that can be improved on over time. It's not like pace or speed. Worth remembering that Kante was hardly great with his passing either when he joined us but after 1 1/2 years of emphasis and work with Conte, he's gotten better at it.

Precisely. Kante biggest area of improvement has been his on the ball work and passing. He has become exponentially better since working with Conte. He singlehandedly dominated Liverpool's midfield yesterday even against their high press. He can now dribble past players and his passing range has definitely improved.

I think we can expect the same sort of development from Bakayoko after he has a season in this team. He's shown plenty of flashes of brilliance and plenty of sides to his game that need sharpening up. He'll get there.

[Polo7 3,496]

He played really well against United. Has a bad game and we start again. Its always the same people aswell.

[Leif 6,006]

That's a pretty shortsighted view.

Ramires bossed United. Mikel had good games against United. Matic had good games vs. United. So?

[positivefootball 195]

46 minutes ago, Polo7 said:

He played really well against United. Has a bad game and we start again. Its always the same people aswell.

He played "well" because United barely pressed us..... more time....

[Leif 6,006]

'It's always the same people' - Well, i'm literally the only person, which i don't say with pride, who has maintained before he even played a game for us that he's not good enough.

So i'm exempt from any potential 'knee jerk reaction' crowd. I can't be painted with a brush of over-reaction which i think you just alluded to. 

As for others, this is pretty much the first time i've seen anyone else other than 1, agree that he isn't good enough. So, 'Always the same people?' Who? 

(Fallacy; just like the unfounded predictions that he'll improve, based on nothing more concrete than guessing the numbers for the lottery.)
For all this talk of getting off his back, nobody on Bakayoko's side seems able to highlight what he adds to the team.

Maybe it's 'always the same people' who never have any criticisms at all, & are so passive about scrutinising quality or lack-of, that we'd be relegated with them in charge. 

 

[Mufassir08 2,400]

21 minutes ago, Leif said:

'It's always the same people' - Well, i'm literally the only person, which i don't say with pride, who has maintained before he even played a game for us that he's not good enough.

You're not the only one mate. Plenty including me were saying the exact same thing in his transfer thread but once he actually put pen to paper, I think majority of us got down and started supporting him. 

[Fulham Broadway 17,314]

Joey Barton on Talksport said he knows one of the French physios who told him Bakayokos knee is basically fucked. 

Could be bullshit, - but sticking Luiz in midfield is a good option imo

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

1 hour ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Joey Barton on Talksport said he knows one of the French physios who told him Bakayokos knee is basically fucked. 

Could be bullshit, - but sticking Luiz in midfield is a good option imo

His main deficiencies are decision making, reading the game, positioning and conposure. Not much to do with his knee. 

[Leif 6,006]

4 hours ago, Mufassir08 said:

You're not the only one mate. Plenty including me were saying the exact same thing in his transfer thread but once he actually put pen to paper, I think majority of us got down and started supporting him. 

The majority on here have been saying Bakayoko is a good player with great potential; the majority have not at all just 'got down and supported him' begrudgingly or otherwise, imo. The majority were absolutely ecstatic that we signed him. No exaggeration. 

You may've made a comment re: him, maybe more, I don't know; I simply don't remember anyone but myself being highlighted for being anti-Bakayoko, so i thought i was the only one. Apparently i had a meltdown I was vehement and sure; maybe another member or 2 implied 'eh, we can do better.' I do remember a couple people agreeing Fabinho would be more solid long-term. I don't know what you said, but i'm interested to know.

 

*sniffs own fart*

[Mufassir08 2,400]

2 minutes ago, Leif said:

The majority on here have been saying Bakayoko is a good player with great potential; the majority have not at all just 'got down and supported him' begrudgingly or otherwise.

You may have made a comment re: him, maybe more, but i don't remember anyone but myself being highlighted for being anti-Bakayoko. I was rather vehement and sure, where maybe another member or 2 passively implied 'eh, we can do better.' I don't know what you said, but i'm interested to know.

I wasn't highlighted as anti Bakayoko because like I said the moment he signed, I budged from my stance and started supporting him and I still do despite his struggles. If you go back to Baka's transfer thread you would regularly find me criticizing this transfer because out of that outrageously talented Monaco team, the player I was always least impressed was our Baka but the fact is that he is here now and he is new to this league so we must at least give him more time and have more patience. If this time next season he is still churning out the same kind of performances then we can label him as a poor signing but right now we must be patient with him and hopefully with time he will prove both you and me wrong. 

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

He's had some good games here and there I'm not going to go full knee-jerk mode. Let's wait at least till New Year. 

The problem I had with his signing is that we clearly tend to favour certain types of players over others, not just under Conte but in the Abramovich Era. We'll go for Bakayoko but rarely will we sign a Weigl, Seri, Dahoud or Torrerria. Fabregas is like the only midfield regista we've had in maybe the last decade.

Basically every top team in Europe is awash with these types of players and this is what allows them to be so competent and much more technically advanced than us. When sides like Liverpool and Spurs are bossing our midfield there's a problem. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

I just hope that people who are trashing him like they thrashed Eden two seasons ago wont support him once he gets good, much like same people ass lick Eden today after screaming on that thread every day to sell him until he loses value. Such "fans" are not needed.

I know people including myself are prone for mistakes and misjudgement, plus the temporary anger after matches, but hell some should learn a thing or two by now. 

Its not all black and white. Go to sleep and deeply think about certain stuff before posting opinions on here.

Every player deserves criticism from time to time. But criticism in posts like he is garbage shouldnt ever play, he should be sold, he is a lazy twat etc...thats all rather disrespect and lack of loyalty and trust in our players. 

Few who write such posts actualy admit mistake later on, but most just turn the side once the player becomes good and they instantly bandwagon and become their biggest fan as if they always were. And when player hits bad form, they blame him again for everything bad in this world. At least stand by your opinions then. Or admit mistake.

But posting certain players should basicaly fuck off because they are shit and the next minute praising how great they are, thats some hypocrite shit right there.

Such fans should simply remove themselves or at least not write posts until their head is cool if they are too angry and uncapable of reasonable thinking after games. 

It makes the forum toxic for me and I believe for many fans around here.

But thankfuly the players are often proving our negative fanbase wrong and make them look like proper fools. 

[Fulham Broadway 17,314]

24 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

His main deficiencies are decision making, reading the game, positioning and conposure. . 

But apart from, that...

 I think Bakayoko has got the potential to be a very good player for us, but he seems to be going backwards at the moment

[Fulham Broadway 17,314]

20 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

I just hope that people who are trashing him like they thrashed Eden two seasons ago wont support him once he gets good, much like same people ass lick Eden today after screaming on that thread every day to sell him until he loses value. Such "fans" are not needed.

I know people including myself are prone for mistakes and misjudgement, plus the temporary anger after matches, but hell some should learn a thing or two by now. 

Its not all black and white. Go to sleep and deeply think about certain stuff before posting opinions on here.

Every player deserves criticism from time to time. But criticism in posts like he is garbage shouldnt ever play, he should be sold, he is a lazy twat etc...thats all rather disrespect and lack of loyalty and trust in our players. 

Few who write such posts actualy admit mistake later on, but most just turn the side once the player becomes good and they instantly bandwagon and become their biggest fan as if they always were. And when player hits bad form, they blame him again for everything bad in this world. At least stand by your opinions then. Or admit mistake.

But posting certain players should basicaly fuck off because they are shit and the next minute praising how great they are, thats some hypocrite shit right there.

Such fans should simply remove themselves or at least not write posts until their head is cool if they are too angry and uncapable of reasonable thinking after games. 

It makes the forum toxic for me and I believe for many fans around here.

But thankfuly the players are often proving our negative fanbase wrong and make them look like proper fools. 

Fans are so fickle though BL. 

I can clearly remember being at games when fans around me have shouted ''Zola youre fucking shit and past it'' '' Lampard you lazy fucking cunt''. ''Drogba is a waste of fucking space''

The difference at games is that its over in an instant, and is not a general summary, here people seem to take their views seriously though, and posts are forever in cyberspace

[BlueLyon 9,359]

2 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Fans are so fickle though BL. 

I can clearly remember being at games when fans around me have shouted ''Zola youre fucking shit and past it'' '' Lampard you lazy fucking cunt''. ;;Drogba is a waste of fucking space''

The difference at games is that its over in an instant, and is not a general summary, here peoples seem to take their views seriously and posts are forever in cyberspace

Yeah I totaly get when some are mad in heated moments after or during match. Im fumming with Bakayoko too when he fucks a simple pass. But thats not a valid reason to question why we bought him and state he will never be good. There is plenty of time for him to prove his worth.

But when you read certain posts continuously out of nowhere and then same posters completely turning their view few months later, its just sad. 

I dont understand how some fans are still one sided, after seeing so many players proving us wrong. I have been like that when I was younger few years ago, but much like people do, you grow up and with years of experience in football, you can make a decent objective opinion on players. 

Its not hard to see Matic obviously had quality, but fans here called for his head. Or Eden. Or Kdb. Or Salah. These players keep proving our fanbase how we dont value what we have. How they should be sold once they caught bad form.

Now we have good young midfielder in Bakayoko and he deserves a chance. Fans want us to develop young players and give them chance but at same time they lack patience and trust. 

Same is with Loftus Cheek. People write him off already and how we need new midfielders. Give him the time. Lets see. If he gets sold, he gets sold. But until then, we are there to support him and other players.

 

[Leif 6,006]

^^ So you're judging Bakayoko...by actually not judging Bakayoko, but past players who he is not. This is our (my) issue with the pro-Bakayoko squad. It's all 'well other players improve, why can't he?'

Nothing about the player he actually is.

[Fulham Broadway 17,314]

20 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

But when you read certain posts continuously out of nowhere and then same posters completely turning their view few months later, its just sad. 

Yup it seems endemic of todays football and twitter culture.  Sadly there have also been a few trolls on here masquerading but with total negative posts and most have been booted out.

 

24 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Its not hard to see Matic obviously had quality, but fans here called for his head. Or Eden. Or Kdb. Or Salah

And there were pages on the Lampard thread around 2007 when so many wanted him out 

25 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Fans want us to develop young players and give them chance but at same time they lack patience and trust. 

So true, and its part of the instant gratification, buy ready made product of the shelf, money driven game. It wasn't like that in the early days of the Premiership, pre Abramovich, and before PSG and Man City were owned by countries. I suppose that's the flip side of some remarkable football we witness week in week out.

[Leif 6,006]

Fans want us to develop our own youth products. Nobody on here is saying 'Let's go out and buy unpolished 22 year olds for 40m and develop them!'. How are so many fallacies coming up post-Liverpool?

[Leif 6,006]

Random points:-

Theorising that Bakayoko will come good, while disregarding who he is now, is no different from me saying 'Hazard will come bad! Just wait!', and completely ignoring, not even once stating, that he's been absolutely great for us consistently. It'd be madness. Delusion.

If Bakayoko was signed on a free and put in these performances there wouldn't be half the people defending him. There'd be shouts of 'Why didn't we spend some fucking money? Stingy board' (where-as if he was actually good, there'd be celebration he was signed on a free. There's nothing to celebrate here either way.) 
If he came through the youth system, it'd be agreed he should be loaned out next season while we bring in a player who can actually contribute now.
But because he cost money, there's none of that 'get rid of him right away!' instinct - the lack of instinct which kept Bosingwa, Mikel, Oscar, and others here far too long.

No player with genuine potential splits a fanbase in half regarding him. No player with genuine potential gets laughed at by opposing fans. No player with genuine potential is this dire at the basics. Someone said it best a handful of posts ago - he's Ramires, without speed, without the stamina, without the fitness. I'd add with worse positioning, worse finishing, worse defensive contribution.

This is about to become laughable, because there can't be any proper debate about this anymore. Hardly any logic is being used. Too many people looking into crystal balls predicting the future, as if every player under the sun improves with age. Go ask actual Monaco fans what they think of Bakayoko. Their joint worst player of their season last year, is what they say. But because we saw him in 3 Champions League games and watched 2-3 of his Monaco games in half, we know for sure he's going to come good! Drogba did!