Tammy Abraham

[MONEYBALL 20]

Olivier Giroud

Made a huge impact from the start with clever touches to create chances for Pedro, Mount and Kante. However, no chances fell his way as he was replaced by Tammy Abraham on the hour mark. Strong showing from the Frenchman. 7

Substitutes

Tammy Abraham (Olivier Giroud, 61)

Great reception for the striker as he replaced Giroud with 30 minutes remaining. No chances of note for him though as Leicester dominated the second half. 5

[BlueLyon 9,359]

On 8/16/2019 at 4:30 PM, Tomo said:

But on the flip the "he's only 20/21/22" card was repeatedly used as Lukaku's defense even though it was pretty clear he wasn't going to get much better than he was.

I don't think anyone said KDB wasn't good enough, i think many people (wrongly) gave Jose the benefit of the doubt because of his history with us, me included. Salah yes, but even the coaches likely didn't see such a rise coming.Which brings me onto my next point, the coaches in general should be able to work out who has potential and who hasn't. We have tens if not hundreds of well paid coaches here to make a judgement on a players ability and potential and suss out who has a chance to make it and who doesn't.

Me personally re Tammy? Funnily enough i think he's in a similar boat to Lukaku back then, certainly has attributes to make an impact at Chelsea but long term it will probably be more in a squad player capacity. Rom weren't having that, lets see how Tammy will feel down the line.

 

On 8/16/2019 at 8:04 PM, Robchels said:

I very much disagree with calling a player who won us many games, playing as a starter for the entire winning campaign, a turd. I just happen to value silverware, winning, and important goals.

you get that I was actually referring to batshuaiy and why he does not get games and has not during the tenure of several managers, right?

for every Emerson, who might have been able to contribute sooner and even rotate with Alonso, there were players we never got to see bc they were bad. Emerson btw who had barely played (made that point in his thread many times). I barely saw KDB play. I was one of the 3-4 ppl who saw a lot of potential in salah, but you can’t even do that if the player does not play. The question is always should he even get minutes?

whether a player plays or not is entirely up to the manager and coaches at the club. They watch them in practice drills, we don’t. A lot of the poor players we never get to see because coaches will take one look at them and see that they aren’t going to cut it.

sometimes they err in not giving time to players who deserve it, and others by giving time to players who don’t, like bakayoko. That’s normal and happens everywhere, but again, we don’t see a lot of their successes. Of course KDB and salah were special fuckups, but those too happen a lot. We shouldn’t be crying for missing on lukaku for 70m now should we?

regarding giroud, not sure who you are arguing with - nobody said giroud is going to improve or that he’s a solution for us. Just that at this time, against tough opposition, he’s the better option.

Losing or struggling does not help with the confidence of the younger players either. Senior players are more used to these various different situations, whereas youngsters may lose confidence more easily. Giroud also offers more even when he is not scoring, which at this time is more important for the team.

I also do not see a lot of potential in tammy tbh, but he should and will get minutes this season. There is no need to rush him though, given that giroud can help at this time of transition and give that air of stability this young team needs.

I never said Tammy will be great striker. But I think its stupid to say he is never going to be good enough based on few games. If we have this conversation at the end of the season when Tammy will have plenty games to show how good/average/bad he is, then I can easily agree he should be only a bench option.

Jovic stinked in Benfica, but exploded in Frankfurt. It can happen. It probably wont, but there is small chance worth taking given that we dont realy have anyone more promising (Bats is about the same, but he had couple of seasons at the top already and didnt convince anyone)

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

The only thing good I've seen from him is his chest control and hold up play. It's really smooth and fluid. It looks even smoother than Giroud's actually. Other than that, not a whole lot yet but still very very very early days to form any sort of conclusion.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

6 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

The only thing good I've seen from him is his chest control and hold up play. It's really smooth and fluid. It looks even smoother than Giroud's actually. Other than that, not a whole lot yet but still very very very early days to form any sort of conclusion.

I agree, he'll replace Giroud with that role within the squad.

[robsblubot 3,595]

19 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

 

I never said Tammy will be great striker. But I think its stupid to say he is never going to be good enough based on few games. If we have this conversation at the end of the season when Tammy will have plenty games to show how good/average/bad he is, then I can easily agree he should be only a bench option.

Jovic stinked in Benfica, but exploded in Frankfurt. It can happen. It probably wont, but there is small chance worth taking given that we dont realy have anyone more promising (Bats is about the same, but he had couple of seasons at the top already and didnt convince anyone)

Nobody said he’s not going to be good enough for Chelsea. Agree that it is too soon for that, but we need goals and good play to win games and help the team, and right now tammy is providing neither.

Good enough to lead the line is about perceived potential and also characteristics. We have to look at other top clubs and what type of players work nowadays. I see a lot of mobile skillful strikers and not many target men. Perhaps a really dominant target man would break that, myself and others don’t see that sort of potential in Tammy.

Would very much like to be very wrong here tho. Very often hat I want to happen isn’t what I think will happen.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

He needs to do a lot of work. He has got pace, height and has shown he can score goals in the Championship but for someone who scored 30 goals last season, to have not made easy movements in the box/being caught on his heels in the last 3 games when the balls been put there, is just ridiculous and in my eyes also quite lazy. That is purely instinct, all the top strikers which is what he has to aspire to be as we are a huge club, make those runs without fail, even if the ball doesn't come to them. That's probably where you see the likes of Aguero scoring the majority of his goals from, between the 6 yard box and penalty spot. How often is Aguero caught on his heels when a ball is played in the box? 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

22 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Nobody said he’s not going to be good enough for Chelsea. Agree that it is too soon for that, but we need goals and good play to win games and help the team, and right now tammy is providing neither.

Good enough to lead the line is about perceived potential and also characteristics. We have to look at other top clubs and what type of players work nowadays. I see a lot of mobile skillful strikers and not many target men. Perhaps a really dominant target man would break that, myself and others don’t see that sort of potential in Tammy.

Would very much like to be very wrong here tho. Very often hat I want to happen isn’t what I think will happen.

Well if you want him to improve, you have to play him. We honestly dont fight for trophies, so let just give them playtime.

Its not like Giroud is going to score every game either.

[robsblubot 3,595]

35 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Well if you want him to improve, you have to play him. We honestly dont fight for trophies, so let just give them playtime.

Its not like Giroud is going to score every game either.

Yes and that’s usually the hardest thing esp at a top club, give minutes to the aspiring player.

I think many here are disregarding the negative effects that struggling and losing can have on youth.

once their confidence is in the shitter they won’t be improving a whole lot.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

4 hours ago, Robchels said:

Yes and that’s usually the hardest thing esp at a top club, give minutes to the aspiring player.

I think many here are disregarding the negative effects that struggling and losing can have on youth.

once their confidence is in the shitter they won’t be improving a whole lot.

Losing is part of development. And its not like we will lose every game.

Smaller clubs lose way more and they usualy produce best talent. 

Participating in CL and gaining european experience is also invaluable.

[robsblubot 3,595]

6 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Losing is part of development. And its not like we will lose every game.

Smaller clubs lose way more and they usualy produce best talent. 

Participating in CL and gaining european experience is also invaluable.

but we are not a small club. I’m just telling you, from experience, what can happen, not what I want to happen. The scenario you picture is a nice one, but the ones I’ve experienced are far less rosy.

football is a game of imposition, and the physically, not to mention experience, of the senior players does make a difference. We were bullied today at home by Leicester city. They won all second balls esp after Tammy came on.

That’s why you don’t throw many youngsters in the starting xi at once. Do it gradually to retain balance and remain competitive. They develop better that way too.

strikers need confidence and Tammy must not be feeling very confident today. Did you see that shot in row z? He was very bad when he came on. People will focus on those 2 good plays, but he was bad at everything else. We were unable to keep possession, hence why we got bullied and Leicester were the far better side in the second half.

[communicate 2,703]

10 hours ago, Robchels said:

but we are not a small club. I’m just telling you, from experience, what can happen, not what I want to happen. The scenario you picture is a nice one, but the ones I’ve experienced are far less rosy.

football is a game of imposition, and the physically, not to mention experience, of the senior players does make a difference. We were bullied today at home by Leicester city. They won all second balls esp after Tammy came on.

That’s why you don’t throw many youngsters in the starting xi at once. Do it gradually to retain balance and remain competitive. They develop better that way too.

strikers need confidence and Tammy must not be feeling very confident today. Did you see that shot in row z? He was very bad when he came on. People will focus on those 2 good plays, but he was bad at everything else. We were unable to keep possession, hence why we got bullied and Leicester were the far better side in the second half.

But we don't throw many youngster. The only youngster in starting 11 is mount. Puli is not a youngster. 

For me you have to throw Tammy into the fire. Realistically this is the only season where he will be given a chance. He need to prove that he is ready otherwise he is gone. 

[MONEYBALL 20]

7 minutes ago, communicate said:

But we don't throw many youngster. The only youngster in starting 11 is mount. Puli is not a youngster. 

For me you have to throw Tammy into the fire. Realistically this is the only season where he will be given a chance. He need to prove that he is ready otherwise he is gone. 

30 minutes by match, it's not enoughe for a rookie to prove ?

[Superblue 6,372]

12 hours ago, Robchels said:

but we are not a small club. I’m just telling you, from experience, what can happen, not what I want to happen. The scenario you picture is a nice one, but the ones I’ve experienced are far less rosy.

football is a game of imposition, and the physically, not to mention experience, of the senior players does make a difference. We were bullied today at home by Leicester city. They won all second balls esp after Tammy came on.

That’s why you don’t throw many youngsters in the starting xi at once. Do it gradually to retain balance and remain competitive. They develop better that way too.

strikers need confidence and Tammy must not be feeling very confident today. Did you see that shot in row z? He was very bad when he came on. People will focus on those 2 good plays, but he was bad at everything else. We were unable to keep possession, hence why we got bullied and Leicester were the far better side in the second half.

There already seems to be this idea that we're just throwing tons of young players into the side. As per usual one "gold nugget" comment from someone like Mourinho and it seems to be taken as gospel.

Tammy has started one game and been brought on in 2 games and Mount has started 2 games and been brought on in 1. When Reece James and CHO are back fit and amongst the squad then the situation will need to be managed more because we would need to ensure there is sufficient experience around them on the pitch but so far we only have two academy lads getting minutes. 

I don't think Mount has done too bad, the faith was rewarded with his goal yesterday and he does seem to offer a goal threat in a squad that needs it at present. His set piece delivery is light years above Willian too purely on the basis of being able to beat the first man!

So this argument only really relates to Tammy and at present he seems to be second choice behind Giroud so it's hardly like he's being left to sink or swim. Our problems yesterday losing second balls all across the pitch and attacks breaking down started after 20-25 minutes. It got no better with Tammy coming on, but it was awful for a substantial period of time before he came on too.

Like many players his age there are parts of his game that I really like and have a lot of potential and there are also parts of his game that do need work. I do believe that he is good enough to be given a squad role here this season and then he needs to show development and progress when given chances this season to justify this role for the longer term beyond this season. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

3 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

There already seems to be this idea that we're just throwing tons of young players into the side. As per usual one "gold nugget" comment from someone like Mourinho and it seems to be taken as gospel.

Tammy has started one game and been brought on in 2 games and Mount has started 2 games and been brought on in 1. When Reece James and CHO are back fit and amongst the squad then the situation will need to be managed more because we would need to ensure there is sufficient experience around them on the pitch but so far we only have two academy lads getting minutes. 

I don't think Mount has done too bad, the faith was rewarded with his goal yesterday and he does seem to offer a goal threat in a squad that needs it at present. His set piece delivery is light years above Willian too purely on the basis of being able to beat the first man!

So this argument only really relates to Tammy and at present he seems to be second choice behind Giroud so it's hardly like he's being left to sink or swim. Our problems yesterday losing second balls all across the pitch and attacks breaking down started after 20-25 minutes. It got no better with Tammy coming on, but it was awful for a substantial period of time before he came on too.

Like many players his age there are parts of his game that I really like and have a lot of potential and there are also parts of his game that do need work. I do believe that he is good enough to be given a squad role here this season and then he needs to show development and progress when given chances this season to justify this role for the longer term beyond this season. 

Brilliant! if you stick cho and james in this squad my money would be on relegation, but whatever.  

I see a vast improvement in our performance when giroud in on. I think it has more to do with Tammy being poor,  but I digress.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

I think there's being a few posts where people are trying to drown out dissenters when it comes to Tammy. People are allowed to have an opinion and just because it's questioning something or someone it shouldn't be shouted down.

So in my opinion and what I've seen of him and first impressions count for a lot in football I just don't think Tammy is good enough for us. This is his season to prove himself he's going to get a fair bit of first team action because next summer we're in the market for a CF no doubt about it. For me he's another Solanke or Carlton Cole just not an elite player.

If he proves me wrong and I hope he does I want the best for the club we all do then brilliant I'll gladly eat my words but I can't see myself opening up a tin of Alphabetti Spaghetti anytime soon.