The Hiddink Thread

[Styles 9,790]

Ahah, so true, I can picture it :

Summer 2016 : Hazard out (the cunt, keeps too much the ball) ; Mosunda is put in Hazard's bags so he can fuck off with his technic and small stature ; Terry and Ivanovic sign a four years extension, just like Ramires and Cahill have just done during the season ; Ivanovic promoted from vice-captain to co-captain ; Oscar getting the n°10 shirt ; David Villa is signed for one year in order to pursue the Eto'o-Drogba-Falcao Fallen Dynasty.

Summer 2017 : all attacking and technical practices are forbidden because they are too morally dangerous (they can lead one to be corrupted and to do mistakes !) ; Ibrahimovic is signed in order to pursue the Eto'o-Drogba-Falcao-Villa Fallen Dynasty ; Kheidira is the star signing and replace Willian.. The Brazilian tracks back however he keeps the ball too much and that can lead to more mistakes.

Summer 2018 : since the players are not hurt but are divers, the medical team and the medical structure are finaly dismantled ; the dream is finaly reality and Wayne Rooney is signed to pursue the Eto'o-Drogba-Falcao-Villa-Ibrahimovic Fallen Dynasty ; the first team is set in stone : Ivanovic - Cahill - Terry - Azpilicueta / Matic - Kheidira / Ramires - Oscar - Fabregas / Rooooney

Rooney!

Another player who is finished at the top level that Mourinho desperately wanted to sign! HAHAHA

And to think people wanted to give him complete control

[dee25 1,044]

• Fabregas, Pedro, Oscar, Matic : at the very best, they belong to a big team's bench.
• Terry, Ivanovic, (Falcao LOL) : not belonging to top-flight football anymore.
• Mikel, Cahill, Ramires, Remy : players for 'small' teams.
• Azpilicueta, Zouma, Costa, Willian : 'okay' players for a big team. Though, Azpi is a very good defensive right-back that plays left-back ; Zouma might be 'great' for is age but if you considere him as a first-team player (i.e. regardless of his age) he is good at best ; Costa has clear limitations in term of technic and self-control ; I have no complains in regards to Willian, though he should not be the 'player of the year'.

That leaves us with : Hazard. He is the only (out-field) player we have that is world-class. And unfortunately for us, he is not the kind of player to get on the score-sheet (i.e., he is more an 'Iniesta' than a 'Suarez').

Do you remember, a couple of years ago we did have : Luiz ; Bertrand ; Azpilicueta ; Oscar ; Hazard ; de Bruyne ; Hazard ; Mata ; Lukaku (; Aké). It was not a great team by any means — however, that was an exciting project and it was a very good base to build a great team. A few key signings here and there (i.e. a great CB to partner Luiz, a great central-midfielder, a great striker) and some additions of 'good' players to compliment what we already had would have been enough to build a competitive team that would be able to play good football. Yet, two years later, we are left with a squad full of utility players, some dead-woods and some 'okay' players — and only one world-class player. Above all, we are left with only a very few players that are able to do things with the ball at their feet...

We are not back to the step 1 — we are back to step -10. Mata, Luiz, Bertrand, de Bruyne, Lukaku, Schurrle, Salah... We have sold all these young and fresh players. We are left with nothing to build upon — and the only hope for people nowadays seems to be the combo 'Kennedy-RLC' which is a clear indication that we are at the bottom of a bottomless pit.

Why, oh why did the board let Mourinho shape the team to his non-football philosophy ? He got rid of all the players that could play football and the players that could have been a bright spark for the 'long-term'. Instead, he gave a free-pass to all of our dead-woods and utility players because they are tall and would run behind the ball like donkeys — and more importantly, as they cannot keep the ball at their feet, the chances of them doing a mistake was greatly reduced, because hey, not doing any mistake is the most important thing in football.

Unfortunately, we are not Real Madrid and we are not full of 'stars'... So we can forgot to bounce back like them. No, we are going to take the Inter route, and unless other clubs mismanage their team and unless we make some signings that turn out to be brilliant, we are not fighting for the title for the five next years. I am so pissed off.

Spot on. Mourinho was coming out of a disaster season at Real Madrid. Everyone was questioning his managerial capabilities, wondering whether he was past it. He needed to quickly repair his reputation and he did so by sacrificing this club's future. His intention wasn't never to come here and build a solid foundation. No. He simply swept the dirt under the rug and used methods that would produce immediate returns with no consideration to the long-term impact (i.e not rotating players). People complain that the board didn't back him but this man had Filipe Luis sitting on the bench and still insisted on running Azpi to the ground! What did it matter to him if Azpi burnt out?

[Rhino's Skin 972]

I've made another topic for this, but I do honestly think we can get Europa League football for next season.

up for the cup

[LDN Blue 7,903]

His intention wasn't never to come here and build a solid foundation. No. He simply swept the dirt under the rug and used methods that would produce immediate returns with no consideration to the long-term impact (i.e not rotating players). People complain that the board didn't back him but this man had Filipe Luis sitting on the bench and still insisted on running Azpi to the ground! What did it matter to him if Azpi burnt out?

I think this hypothesis is rather unfair. I think he believed, and wanted to prove, that he can be a long-term manager with a fluid style of football. He certainly said all the right things and for the first half of the season did well to implement them. RLC got some game time even. The problem was that loss to Tottenham, really shook Mourinho up and after that it was always back to the style he's known and trusted so well.

Much like in 2010, when Carlo won the double, the title win did well to mask already established problems. The wave that followed continued to cloud problems in personnel and it wasn't found out until it was too late. By then José was always in a losing battle. He couldn't even begin to think about the youth, when his established stars were giving him such a headache.

Look I've said before, it's easy in hindsight to talk about KdB, Mata, Luis, etc. But at the time it was working for Mourinho, he talked about this team being good enough to last 10 years (as he said when Lampard left). Mourinho gambled and it didn't work, I have no doubt he did want to leave a long-term legacy here. He just doesn't know how to do it and perhaps he may never learn.

[Rhino's Skin 972]

I think this hypothesis is rather unfair. I think he believed, and wanted to prove, that he can be a long-term manager with a fluid style of football. He certainly said all the right things and for the first half of the season did well to implement them. RLC got some game time even. The problem was that loss to Tottenham, really shook Mourinho up and after that it was always back to the style he's known and trusted so well.

Much like in 2010, when Carlo won the double, the title win did well to mask already established problems. The wave that followed continued to cloud problems in personnel and it wasn't found out until it was too late. By then José was always in a losing battle. He couldn't even begin to think about the youth, when his established stars were giving him such a headache.

Look I've said before, it's easy in hindsight to talk about KdB, Mata, Luis, etc. But at the time it was working for Mourinho, he talked about this team being good enough to last 10 years (as he said when Lampard left). Mourinho gambled and it didn't work, I have no doubt he did want to leave a long-term legacy here. He just doesn't know how to do it and perhaps he may never learn.

That won't satisfy the hindsight Harry's in this Hiddink thread

[dee25 1,044]

I think this hypothesis is rather unfair. I think he believed, and wanted to prove, that he can be a long-term manager with a fluid style of football. He certainly said all the right things and for the first half of the season did well to implement them. RLC got some game time even. The problem was that loss to Tottenham, really shook Mourinho up and after that it was always back to the style he's known and trusted so well.

Much like in 2010, when Carlo won the double, the title win did well to mask already established problems. The wave that followed continued to cloud problems in personnel and it wasn't found out until it was too late. By then José was always in a losing battle. He couldn't even begin to think about the youth, when his established stars were giving him such a headache.

Look I've said before, it's easy in hindsight to talk about KdB, Mata, Luis, etc. But at the time it was working for Mourinho, he talked about this team being good enough to last 10 years (as he said when Lampard left). Mourinho gambled and it didn't work, I have no doubt he did want to leave a long-term legacy here. He just doesn't know how to do it and perhaps he may never learn.

There're absolutely no signs whatsoever that would indicate that Mourinho was planning to leave a long-term legacy here, besides his lip service to words like "long-term". You don't sell Ryan Bertrand and bring in a 16 million 29 yr old as his replacement and then proceed to leaving him on the bench, if you're planning to leave a long-term legacy. I think this notion that Mourinho wanted to achieve longevity here is nothing but wishful thinking.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

That won't satisfy the hindsight Harry's in this Hiddink thread

It's honestly like people think he came to burn the Bridge down.

He tried and he failed. It's already been noted himself and the club parted amicably, so I don't know why fans still hold hostile feelings towards him lol .

[LDN Blue 7,903]

There's absolutely no signs whatsoever that would indicate that Mourinho was planning to leave a long-term legacy here, besides his lip service to words like "long-term". You don't sell Ryan Bertrand and bring in a 16 million 29 yr old as his replacement and then proceed to leaving him on the bench, if you're planning to leave a long-term legacy. I think this notion that Mourinho wanted to achieve longevity here is nothing but wishful thinking.

Come on, are you really going to get hung up on Bertrand-Luis over all things?

If I had the time and patience, I'd go through the match day threads were Luis did play and show you how he didn't put in such world class performances as you think. Also are we choosing to forget that Mourinho actually did mention the fact that Shaw was too expensive in the first place. But of course choose then to forget one Baba Rahman who is young and did play towards the end of Mou's tenure.

Anyway, I do think we're gonna agree to disagree here. Hindsight is wonderful and we can always get hung up on the what ifs I guess, they won't go away until we're successful again. So until then, feel free to vent

[Azul 1,615]

• Fabregas, Pedro, Oscar, Matic : at the very best, they belong to a big team's bench.
• Terry, Ivanovic, (Falcao LOL) : not belonging to top-flight football anymore.
• Mikel, Cahill, Ramires, Remy : players for 'small' teams.
• Azpilicueta, Zouma, Costa, Willian : 'okay' players for a big team. Though, Azpi is a very good defensive right-back that plays left-back ; Zouma might be 'great' for is age but if you considere him as a first-team player (i.e. regardless of his age) he is good at best ; Costa has clear limitations in term of technic and self-control ; I have no complains in regards to Willian, though he should not be the 'player of the year'.

That leaves us with : Hazard. He is the only (out-field) player we have that is world-class. And unfortunately for us, he is not the kind of player to get on the score-sheet (i.e., he is more an 'Iniesta' than a 'Suarez').

Do you remember, a couple of years ago we did have : Luiz ; Bertrand ; Azpilicueta ; Oscar ; Hazard ; de Bruyne ; Hazard ; Mata ; Lukaku (; Aké). It was not a great team by any means — however, that was an exciting project and it was a very good base to build a great team. A few key signings here and there (i.e. a great CB to partner Luiz, a great central-midfielder, a great striker) and some additions of 'good' players to compliment what we already had would have been enough to build a competitive team that would be able to play good football. Yet, two years later, we are left with a squad full of utility players, some dead-woods and some 'okay' players — and only one world-class player. Above all, we are left with only a very few players that are able to do things with the ball at their feet...

We are not back to the step 1 — we are back to step -10. Mata, Luiz, Bertrand, de Bruyne, Lukaku, Schurrle, Salah... We have sold all these young and fresh players. We are left with nothing to build upon — and the only hope for people nowadays seems to be the combo 'Kennedy-RLC' which is a clear indication that we are at the bottom of a bottomless pit.

Why, oh why did the board let Mourinho shape the team to his non-football philosophy ? He got rid of all the players that could play football and the players that could have been a bright spark for the 'long-term'. Instead, he gave a free-pass to all of our dead-woods and utility players because they are tall and would run behind the ball like donkeys — and more importantly, as they cannot keep the ball at their feet, the chances of them doing a mistake was greatly reduced, because hey, not doing any mistake is the most important thing in football.

Unfortunately, we are not Real Madrid and we are not full of 'stars'... So we can forgot to bounce back like them. No, we are going to take the Inter route, and unless other clubs mismanage their team and unless we make some signings that turn out to be brilliant, we are not fighting for the title for the five next years. I am so pissed off.

I agree with you, Jose destroyed us and our legacy,. He made fake promises, sacked our best players and had horrible anti-football tactics. I still believe that we have some players that can be Chelsea's backbone for the next decade. These players are imo:

-Zouma

-Pasalic

-RLC

-Baker

-Courtois

-Baba

-Kenedy

-Traore

-Solanke

-Christensen

-Aina

We have very talented youngsters that should be given a chance. Look at how succesful Poch is with Tottenham at the moment. He build a great young team with minimal talent.

The players that we have are in my opinion far more superior in terms of talent and potential, we need to utilise their talents to the max. That is our key to succes.

We should already search for more gems and continue to build CFC slowly. Players like Stones, Embolo, Neves etc.

I want us to give a young ambitious manager a chance in the summer. Roman and the board sadly have got no clue what they're doing and they are failing miserably.

[Rhino's Skin 972]

Is this still the Hiddink thread?

[dee25 1,044]

Come on, are you really going to get hung up on Bertrand-Luis over all things?

If I had the time and patience, I'd go through the match day threads were Luis did play and show you how he didn't put in such world class performances as you think. Also are we choosing to forget that Mourinho actually did mention the fact that Shaw was too expensive in the first place. But of course choose then to forget one Baba Rahman who is young and did play towards the end of Mou's tenure.

Anyway, I do think we're gonna agree to disagree here. Hindsight is wonderful and we can always get hung up on the what ifs I guess, they won't go away until we're successful again. So until then, feel free to vent

Look, If you're going to respond to my post then I really wish you would refrain from using words like "vent". I think words like that ends up producing unneeded tension and overly defensive replies. It's completely unnecessary. If you're unable to construct an argument without resorting to straw man statements like "feel free to vent" then simply don't respond to my posts and I promise to return the favor. Deal? It will save us both so much hassle.

Secondly, I'm off the opinion that when you pay 20M euros for a 29yr, you give him fair chances to adapt to a new league, build confidence and stake a claim for a starting position. Luis was not any worse than Ivanovic who, regardless of his continuous brainless defending, was allowed chance after chance...and that's exactly the issue – that under Mourinho, certain types of players are allowed time and patience while others are benched at slightest sign of a mistake.

Thirdly, regarding your hindsight is 20/20 argument......the interesting thing is that there are several members on here who had concerns about certain decisions Mourinho was making. I remember one poster on here who wrote an extensive post that Benitez was on to something by building the team around Luis, Mata and Hazard and all Mourinho needed to do was bring in a few extra pieces rather than breaking down the whole system. So I think your whole claim that it’s easy to criticize Mourinho’s decision in hindsight is a baseless claim. Many posters having been saying these things for the past two seasons.

In any case, you’re right that we won’t agree and I really don’t think you’ve contributed anything of note except make silly straw-man comments. So let’s just leave it here.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Look, If you're going to respond to my post then I really wish you would refrain from using words like "vent". I think words like that ends up producing unneeded tension and overly defensive replies. It's completely unnecessary. If you're unable to construct an argument without resorting to straw man statements like "feel free to vent" then simply don't respond to my posts and I promise to return the favor. Deal? It will save us both so much hassle.

Secondly, I'm off the opinion that when you pay 20M euros for a 29yr, you give him fair chances to adapt to a new league, build confidence and stake a claim for a starting position. Luis was not any worse than Ivanovic who, regardless of his continuous brainless defending, was allowed chance after chance...and that's exactly the issue – that under Mourinho, certain types of players are allowed time and patience while others are benched at slightest sign of a mistake.

Thirdly, regarding your hindsight is 20/20 argument......the interesting thing is that there are several members on here who had concerns about certain decisions Mourinho was making. I remember one poster on here who wrote an extensive post that Benitez was on to something by building the team around Luis, Mata and Hazard and all Mourinho needed to do was bring in a few extra pieces rather than breaking down the whole system. So I think your whole claim that it’s easy to criticize Mourinho’s decision in hindsight is a baseless claim. Many posters having been saying these things for the past two seasons.

In any case, you’re right that we won’t agree and I really don’t think you’ve contributed anything of note except make silly straw-man comments. So let’s just leave it here.

Lol 'vent' wasn't meant to offend you mate, I do apologise if it came across that way.

With Luis. Even I didn't agree at the time we signed him, everyone was saying he was one Europe's finest LBs at that point in his career and it was a no-brainer between him and Shaw. I always wanted us to sign Shaw ahead of Luis. But when you come with the label of 'Europe's best' you don't really expect to have such a long period of adapting and adjusting. If Azpi (who let's not forget Mourinho dropped at RB) can fight the great Ashley Cole out of LB then Luis should've had no trouble doing the same.

I also recognise that many posters, in the time KDB Mata Etc were sold, were vocal in their criticisms of Mourinho's choices. Again I'm not disputing that. What I'm saying on that point was I do believe Mourinho saw Oscar, Hazard, Fabrgeas, Costa etc as the main spine for the team for years to come - His words, not mine. So at the time he was getting rid of KdB, Mata, Luis, you could somewhat see what he was trying to do. Hell it was true at the time, because the level Hazard Fabregas and Oscar were playing at was great to watch.

It's unfortunate you see my views as clutching at straws, when you wholeheartedly believe Mourinho came here to set the squad up to their own detriment. But hey, I guess that's part of debating.