The Mourinho Thread

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

1 hour ago, Unionjack said:

But would you want HIM at Mancland or ZZ? I know who my choice would be,

Just like I wanted Vinegar tits to stay in north London.

Both shite in their own ways but why would we want in any different? Let them suffer,

This will be his last job in English football UJ he's damaged goods plus once the Man United loving English media get on your back your finished. Personally probably some will disagree but I think in his first spell with us he underachieved. He had players at their peak and basically an open chequebook and yet we lost to Liverpool twice in the Champions League where his negative tactics stifled us. In fact from memory not going to google it but we played Liverpool 6 times home and away in the Champions League and scored once Joe Cole.

[Unionjack 7,531]

1 minute ago, Iggy Doonican said:

This will be his last job in English football UJ he's damaged goods plus once the Man United loving English media get on your back your finished. Personally probably some will disagree but I think in his first spell with us he underachieved. He had players at their peak and basically an open chequebook and yet we lost to Liverpool twice in the Champions League where his negative tactics stifled us. In fact from memory not going to google it but we played Liverpool 6 times home and away in the Champions League and scored once Joe Cole.

You wont get a argument out of me mate.

Its strange at how much someones rep can change so much. I thought we had struck gold when we first got him but then it got to the stage where I never wanted to see him again.

Hes definitely going to get the chop and would think by the New Year if the media stays on his back. And he wanted to be the new Fergie.

What pisses me off just as much is the continuation of the medias love affair with Shitty and the scouse twats. They are forever being compared to them in the same breath!

[manpe 10,861]

Just watched MOTD highlights and analysis of United's game and my word they look shit. A Mourinho team defending like schoolboys is spectacular, their center-backs are backup level at best. None of them seem to have any confidence at all and they look shitscared like our players did in their 3rd season under Mou. They've had over 2 seasons together now, but perform like they've never played together. The same theme continues that they have no attacking pattern of play and defence makes a mistake after mistake. Even we look much more coherent and in-sync after only a month.

Jose's ego has long outgrown his coaching ability. He has absolutely no new fresh ideas in him, his main tactic these days is to use mental warfare on his players to make them crawl out of their skins and prove themselves individually, instead of doing something new tactically and collectively. He needs to suck it up and hire an attacking assistant coach to help him like we did with Avram Grant and Henk Ten Cate (thought to be the mastermind behind Grant's somewhat successful spell). We know this won't happen though, because this is the man who once said that at his level he cannot learn from others because he is the best. The best at making world class players look average perhaps.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

45 minutes ago, manpe said:

Just watched MOTD highlights and analysis of United's game and my word they look shit. A Mourinho team defending like schoolboys is spectacular, their center-backs are backup level at best. None of them seem to have any confidence at all and they look shitscared like our players did in their 3rd season under Mou. They've had over 2 seasons together now, but perform like they've never played together. The same theme continues that they have no attacking pattern of play and defence makes a mistake after mistake. Even we look much more coherent and in-sync after only a month.

Jose's ego has long outgrown his coaching ability. He has absolutely no new fresh ideas in him, his main tactic these days is to use mental warfare on his players to make them crawl out of their skins and prove themselves individually, instead of doing something new tactically and collectively. He needs to suck it up and hire an attacking assistant coach to help him like we did with Avram Grant and Henk Ten Cate (thought to be the mastermind behind Grant's somewhat successful spell). We know this won't happen though, because this is the man who once said that at his level he cannot learn from others because he is the best. The best at making world class players look average perhaps.

All the suspicion of Mourinho not training attacking patterns and just giving the players freedom to attack as they like was true. Manutd look like they are playing together for the first time. Hazard mentioned it a lot that mourinho gave him freedom, but we thought it was a lie because mourinho always demanded the winger to track back and chase the fullback attacking. Little did we know Hazard meant no tactics at all, just freedom of movement as you please. 

In the past, Mourinho always had great individual players who did the thinking for him on the pitch. Deco/prime ozil/Sneidjer/Lamps are players who understood space and had bounds of creativity to see the passes and create on their own with their football intelligence. But he suddenly stopped buying quality, assist kings (people who regularly get 15 assists per season, not Pogba) so giving freedom to players with less quality/creative vision has exposed his tactics to modern team tactics.

 

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, manpe said:

Just watched MOTD highlights and analysis of United's game and my word they look shit. A Mourinho team defending like schoolboys is spectacular, their center-backs are backup level at best. None of them seem to have any confidence at all and they look shitscared like our players did in their 3rd season under Mou. They've had over 2 seasons together now, but perform like they've never played together. The same theme continues that they have no attacking pattern of play and defence makes a mistake after mistake. Even we look much more coherent and in-sync after only a month.

Jose's ego has long outgrown his coaching ability. He has absolutely no new fresh ideas in him, his main tactic these days is to use mental warfare on his players to make them crawl out of their skins and prove themselves individually, instead of doing something new tactically and collectively. He needs to suck it up and hire an attacking assistant coach to help him like we did with Avram Grant and Henk Ten Cate (thought to be the mastermind behind Grant's somewhat successful spell). We know this won't happen though, because this is the man who once said that at his level he cannot learn from others because he is the best. The best at making world class players look average perhaps.

It's not only that. Even when Mourinho uses his Plan B with Fellaini, there's no cohesion or any sort of attacking pattern with the route one football. It's just a case of lumping the ball up to him and hope something happens from it, like with that stoppage time penalty at Brighton. Even Allardyce and Pulis would make route one football look more decent than Mourinho! 

[manpe 10,861]

It's not only that. Even when Mourinho uses his Plan B with Fellaini, there's no cohesion or any sort of attacking pattern with the route one football. It's just a case of lumping the ball up to him and hope something happens from it, like with that stoppage time penalty at Brighton. Even Allardyce and Pulis would make route one football look more decent than Mourinho! 

It is still the same game "plan" tbh, just instead of only Lukaku they also have Fellaini to target. He's a crossing merchant, that's why he can't play without a strong target man.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, manpe said:

It is still the same game "plan" tbh, just instead of only Lukaku they also have Fellaini to target. He's a crossing merchant, that's why he can't play without a strong target man.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk
 

He's the Rich Man's Tony Pulis, isn't he?

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

It's not only that. Even when Mourinho uses his Plan B with Fellaini, there's no cohesion or any sort of attacking pattern with the route one football. It's just a case of lumping the ball up to him and hope something happens from it, like with that stoppage time penalty at Brighton. Even Allardyce and Pulis would make route one football look more decent than Mourinho! 

I got my first suspicions of Mourinho not being this great coach and visionary during the Champions League game against Liverpool when he brought on Huth and we just whacked the ball up to him. In hindsight that's why he probably bought Jarosik  so he could be his Fellani.

[OneMoSalah 8,751]

7 hours ago, manpe said:

Just watched MOTD highlights and analysis of United's game and my word they look shit. A Mourinho team defending like schoolboys is spectacular, their center-backs are backup level at best. None of them seem to have any confidence at all and they look shitscared like our players did in their 3rd season under Mou. They've had over 2 seasons together now, but perform like they've never played together. The same theme continues that they have no attacking pattern of play and defence makes a mistake after mistake. Even we look much more coherent and in-sync after only a month.

Jose's ego has long outgrown his coaching ability. He has absolutely no new fresh ideas in him, his main tactic these days is to use mental warfare on his players to make them crawl out of their skins and prove themselves individually, instead of doing something new tactically and collectively. He needs to suck it up and hire an attacking assistant coach to help him like we did with Avram Grant and Henk Ten Cate (thought to be the mastermind behind Grant's somewhat successful spell). We know this won't happen though, because this is the man who once said that at his level he cannot learn from others because he is the best. The best at making world class players look average perhaps.

True but again I think that United team has always struggled defensively, since Ferguson went, the guys they've brought in in terms of defenders is horrible.

Its funny to see Jose struggle as well because hes always talking and theres nothing now to back it up with because we've seen at Real, Chelsea and now United hes not adaptable. He used to be good at making subs that would change the dynamic of a game but that rarely happens. He has one of the potentially best MF players in the world playing within himself. He has Sanchez and Martial but they struggle because of their own inconsistencies and also the team doesn't have a clear platform either. The fact Kovacic didn't want to go to United because of their playing style says it all.... feel sorry for the boys Fred and Pereira because like Shaw they will be thrown under the bus this season. 

[Unionjack 7,531]

6 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

True but again I think that United team has always struggled defensively, since Ferguson went, the guys they've brought in in terms of defenders is horrible.

While we have Luiz and Alonso 2 of the best defenders there are! Everyone loves their offensive minds but leave a bit to be desired defending!

[OneMoSalah 8,751]

21 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

While we have Luiz and Alonso 2 of the best defenders there are! Everyone loves their offensive minds but leave a bit to be desired defending!

Yeah I know but even then under Conte we had a clear structure before we started playing shit in December and the whole of the first season once we swapped to 343. Even in the bigger games under Mourinho the first 2 years he was back, we had a clear structure and we could go and nulify teams just by being organised and playing into our strengths. Sometimes with a good structure you can get away with having slightly more average players, because the structure masks their deficiencies, Cahill and Terry were in the PL team of the year 2 years in a row under Jose I'm sure. United need to evolve, if I were a United fan I'd be looking at why aren't they taking the shackles off and giving Pogba and the front 3 a lot more freedom to go and do their thing. Fair enough they need to get the balance but still they are far to negative. Its good for us because if they continue to struggle then we will have more chances for top 4 over the season.  

[Jase 43,479]

8 hours ago, kellzfresh said:

In the past, Mourinho always had great individual players who did the thinking for him on the pitch. Deco/prime ozil/Sneidjer/Lamps are players who understood space and had bounds of creativity to see the passes and create on their own with their football intelligence. But he suddenly stopped buying quality, assist kings (people who regularly get 15 assists per season, not Pogba) so giving freedom to players with less quality/creative vision has exposed his tactics to modern team tactics.

Think his man management may have something to do with that. Let's not forget, he has a number of decent players at United who can score the goals and provide the goals but they are not producing the goods. Not saying his players are faultless but whether for better or worse, the players these days are different to the ones from 10 years or so ago. Mourinho's man management style connected with the previous generation of players and they were willing to run through walls, play beyond their level for him and thus, he and his teams were successful. The modern players are different but Mourinho is still trying to manage them the same way as before, even when it is bloody clear that it is not working. The players are not responding his methods, not willing to die for him on the pitch etc and Mourinho only knows one way of doing things. That's why he's struggling now and looks outdated when compared with the likes of Guardiola, Klopp etc. It's also arguably why we have rarely heard a player talk fondly of him since his Inter Milan days. Rather than going down the same route as Sir Alex Ferguson, who adapts and tweaks his management style with time, Mourinho is becoming like Wenger - too stubborn to adapt and subsequently, become irrelevant in the game. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

Yeah I know but even then under Conte we had a clear structure before we started playing shit in December and the whole of the first season once we swapped to 343. Even in the bigger games under Mourinho the first 2 years he was back, we had a clear structure and we could go and nulify teams just by being organised and playing into our strengths. Sometimes with a good structure you can get away with having slightly more average players, because the structure masks their deficiencies, Cahill and Terry were in the PL team of the year 2 years in a row under Jose I'm sure. United need to evolve, if I were a United fan I'd be looking at why aren't they taking the shackles off and giving Pogba and the front 3 a lot more freedom to go and do their thing. Fair enough they need to get the balance but still they are far to negative. Its good for us because if they continue to struggle then we will have more chances for top 4 over the season.  

United aren't a great side but they are not exactly bad either. Somewhere along the way, Mourinho has stopped doing what he was hired to do - coach the players, improve the players. 

On a side note, am curious to see if United will go after Conte if/when they sack Mourinho.

[OneMoSalah 8,751]

Just now, Jason said:

United aren't a great side but they are not exactly bad either. Somewhere along the way, Mourinho has stopped doing what he was hired to do - coach the players, improve the players. 

On a side note, am curious to see if United will go after Conte if/when they sack Mourinho.

I think United seriously have lost their tradition. They aren't a bad side but in a few years or few months were to change coaches and revert to more traditional ways do you think they'd reckon it was worth it? I doubt Conte would go because I think hes too similar and although he showed in his first year here he can get entertaining football out of players, with that defence it could be a disaster regardless although you'd definitely see Sanchez and Pogba improve similarly to the ways some of our guys did. 

As a coach Mourinho can do more but he has this way of working, its his way or the high way, its probably cost him a lot, at Madrid, when he was back here and now at United. He seriously needs to evolve as a manager, he still probably in terms of football intelligence is one of the smartest guys out there but again his methods are constantly falling behind with the likes of Klopp, Pep, Pochettino in terms of how to play. You can't expect a 100m MF player, who excelled as a box to box at Juventus to be able to play as a 6, not struggle and then not be able to impose himself on the match and then blame him? Its not exactly as simple as that but he has guys like Matic and Herrera, even Fred and Andres Pereira, he shouldn't make United Pogba FC but everybody knows Pogba on his day when hes given the license to get forward and get around the box can cause some damage. Lukaku and Sanchez as well are both guys who would get 20 goals a season minimum. Marcus Rashford is one of Englands most talented youngsters, Martial is in a similar place in terms of being talented but he very very inconsistent. Jesse Lingard is probably one of the only younger players who has seriously come on leaps and bounds under him. For a guy with Mourinho's reputation and pedigree, having so much talented players or ready made players and not being able to get a decent team performance from them against a Brighton, where they lacked fight and quality is terrible. If that happened here it would be mayhem. We seen how bad it got last season against Watford and Bournemouth. 

[Tomo 21,730]

For all his time in England he's been making United's life difficult, one way or another.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Read some of the posts on this page it seems they're slowly catching on, saying what some of us were saying. http://www.redcafe.net/threads/josé-mourinho-2018-19-performances.440061/page-61

Some of us tried to warn these arrogant Mancs about signing toxic Jose but they didn't listen, instead they wanted a "winner". They've got one alright.

He's already created a narrative his defenders are hopeless and cant possibly be ever any good despite spending almost 70 million already on Bailly and Lindelof.

He then asked his board for Maguire, who he knows deep down in his heart of hearts is an impossible target. Maguire is nothing more than a red herring, an illuision.

The whole situation with Pogba was totally orchestrated by Mourinho. As it was with Casillas, Hazard and Ronaldo in the past.

The man is really mentally disturbed. How big clubs continue to take him seriously at this point is beyond me. 

[Tomo 21,730]

21 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Read some of the posts on this page it seems they're slowly catching on, saying what some of us were saying. http://www.redcafe.net/threads/josé-mourinho-2018-19-performances.440061/page-61

Some of us tried to warn these arrogant Mancs about signing toxic Jose but they didn't listen, instead they wanted a "winner". They've got one alright.

He's already created a narrative his defenders are hopeless and cant possibly be ever any good despite spending almost 70 million already on Bailly and Lindelof.

He then asked his board for Maguire, who he knows deep down in his heart of hearts is an impossible target. Maguire is nothing more than a red herring, an illuision.

The whole situation with Pogba was totally orchestrated by Mourinho. As it was with Casillas, Hazard and Ronaldo in the past.

The man is really mentally disturbed. How big clubs continue to take him seriously at this point is beyond me. 

What i can't fathom is why they appointed him for the long haul when his long term ability was so brutally exposed here? You can forgive us our mistake because he wasn't proven either way long term and we had the emotional connection, what on earth was United's excuse? I have to also while your here hold my hands up and admit you were right and i was wrong about him, i feel genuinely embarrassed when i look back at some of my posts around early 2015 time 

[Fernando 6,417]

19 minutes ago, Tomo said:

What i can't fathom is why they appointed him for the long haul when his long term ability was so brutally exposed here? You can forgive us our mistake because he wasn't proven either way long term and we had the emotional connection, what on earth was United's excuse? I have to also while your here hold my hands up and admit you were right and i was wrong about him, i feel genuinely embarrassed when i look back at some of my posts around early 2015 time 

This is something I noticed from the past. That not many managers can stay at the top of their game for more then a decade. 

Seems like Pep is the only one from that era still doing that today. 

But after that, most top managers from 10 years ago are a shadow of themselves. 

It is why I think within the current modern game, if you can get 3 to 5 years with a manager it would be good business. I think 5 is the optimal. After 5 it seems things tend to turn stale.