chelseafan26 293 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 10 hours ago, Tomo said: Fletcher was actually a starter for three or so years before his unfortunate illness, and that's because Fergie appreciated what he brought the table, a purist would have chosen a more flashy player but not Fergie. He also regularly choose Valencia over a much more talented Nani team balance sake. Also, he would never do anything that put the team in any sort of handicap, when he gave Ronaldo the free role, do you know how he compensated for the sake of the team balance? Two defensive midfielders, even at home to shit teams, because if he he didn't, there would be too much space for opposition to exploit on the break. Rooney summed it up after Ronaldo left, he was asked if it was easier now Ronaldo left and he said not for him, but maybe the defense and midfield. A team needs balance, of course it does, thats why you have a 25 people squad for different games and different teams and different scenarios. But that does not mean that you have to simply throw away your best talents. SAF played CR, Ronaldo, Tevez, infact he played a 18/19 year old CR because he was his best attacking player. In 13/14 we had a pivot of Matic-ramires, we had willian to do the bullwork. and yet we went ahead with oscar instead of either mata/kdb despite the fact that both of them were heads and shoulders above him in creativity. SAF did not simply play CR against shrewsbury, he gave him an oppurtunity and formed the team around the likes of CR, rooney and tevez. Thats the difference between SAF and jose. And to be fair to jose, it was not like he did not know what the problem was. He knew Exactly what the problem was. We lacked a creative outlet in the team. Thats the reason he bought cesc into the team. But the problem was that cesc simply is not consistent enough and in my opinion, good enough for team "balance". You cant have the likes of oscar in the team for the sake of balance while putting in the likes of cesc in a 2 man pivot. Sorry, but thats folly and that is exactly what has cost us so massively this season. IF Saf had inherited the squad that Jose had inherited in 13/14, you could bet almost anything on the fact that we would have been one of the best teams in the world, not just one of the best teams, but one of the best attacking teams in the world. Jose on the other hand sold/destroyed our attacking talents one by one and now even our starting 11 has deadwoods like oscar, pedro while we have absolutely no bench whatsoever. As for nani, he got plenty of oppurtunity. But unlike jose SAF was not prepared to keep him in the squad simply for his talent, instead he threw him out for his consistency (or lack of it). If i remember well, Valencia was one of the players of the season in 10/11 or 11/12 when he was given the no.7 jersey. So I dont think it was simply for "balance". If anything, then valencia and rafael were the most lethal attacking Combo in PL on the right wing. positivefootball and petre.ispirescu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelDance 552 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 On 11 April 2016 at 4:34 AM, kiwi1691 said: If you read the reports from the media at the time it is clear the board were prepared to spend a lot of money to support him. Unfortunately, transfers in real life are harder than in football manager. It's kinda sad that Jose fan boys like you have to lie to support Jose's failure. If my memory serves me correctly, the media claimed we went after Stones Pogba Koke Griezman Martial Manolas When Jose came to this club we had a poor central midfield, he spent a lot of money, and left us with a poor central midfield. LOL you really believe that don't you... Stones... Everton wouldn't budge, Pogba... Juventus wouldn't budge for 70M unless they had a replacement, The club who owned Martial told us they wouldn't sell him but they did anyway to Man United for a ridiculous amount of money. If it wasn't for MOURINHO we wouldn't have even got Pedro... It's so sad you have to lie for the board... see works both ways. bellion and Essien19 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseafan26 293 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 18 hours ago, Tomo said: Fletcher was actually a starter for three or so years before his unfortunate illness, and that's because Fergie appreciated what he brought the table, a purist would have chosen a more flashy player but not Fergie. He also regularly choose Valencia over a much more talented Nani team balance sake. Also, he would never do anything that put the team in any sort of handicap, when he gave Ronaldo the free role, do you know how he compensated for the sake of the team balance? Two defensive midfielders, even at home to shit teams, because if he he didn't, there would be too much space for opposition to exploit on the break. Rooney summed it up after Ronaldo left, he was asked if it was easier now Ronaldo left and he said not for him, but maybe the defense and midfield. I am sorry for what I am going to write here, but i Vaguely remember having a discussion about cesc with you, if i remember correctly. Mate, did you see the 2nd goal? Did you see Kdb absolutely glide past Cesc like he was not even present. Our midfield Again gets overrun. This is not a midfielder. Cesc is the biggest Farce I have seen in football. You asked me why I thought Cesc was one of the main reasons for Arsenal being this shit defensively, here is the live proof. Utterly disgusting performance. And this was even the first time in the game when this happened. People will comeback saying he ran the most, no he did not. He jogged the most. A jog in the park. That does not get the job done defensively. I would still have cesc here next season only because Jose has screwed us off any good creative play makers. If we had one good creative option, then I would have wanted cesc first out of the door. This summer for me is all about rebuilding the defence and the center Midfield. IF we do get someone like Pjanic, Cesc should be sold. The Chels and Styles 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukakutoStamford 779 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 I'd play Musonda over Cesc next year and we're lucky that Jose was 86'd before he chased him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,754 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 13 hours ago, chelseafan26 said: I am sorry for what I am going to write here, but i Vaguely remember having a discussion about cesc with you, if i remember correctly. Mate, did you see the 2nd goal? Did you see Kdb absolutely glide past Cesc like he was not even present. Our midfield Again gets overrun. This is not a midfielder. Cesc is the biggest Farce I have seen in football. You asked me why I thought Cesc was one of the main reasons for Arsenal being this shit defensively, here is the live proof. Utterly disgusting performance. And this was even the first time in the game when this happened. People will comeback saying he ran the most, no he did not. He jogged the most. A jog in the park. That does not get the job done defensively. I would still have cesc here next season only because Jose has screwed us off any good creative play makers. If we had one good creative option, then I would have wanted cesc first out of the door. This summer for me is all about rebuilding the defence and the center Midfield. IF we do get someone like Pjanic, Cesc should be sold. He was dreadful yesterday, no sugar coating that, although I don't no what else to expect playing him in a double pivot vs City, and we signed him knowing his defensive limitations. Howeveryou cannot ignore the creative side he brings to the table, he is an animal with even a cm of space, and hopefully, Conte can find ways to utilise that and hide his weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essien19 1,415 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Welcome back Sir. Hail to the king, baby! Will be fun next season, against Jose and Pep, Conte better be up for it. Blue_Fox_ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Fox_ 2,086 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 22 minutes ago, Essien19 said: Welcome back Sir. Hail to the king, baby! Will be fun next season, against Jose and Pep, Conte better be up for it. Missed this man from the football scene so much! It just isn't the same without. Essien19 and TheIceMan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essien19 1,415 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, Blue_Fox_ said: Missed this man from the football scene so much! It just isn't the same without. The big question is when not if the moaning 'how could we fire this man' will start. My guess is in 1-3 years we'll have a lot of new accounts in there and some Jose avatars. He'll make them great again, but congrats, the behaviour towards this legend has been nothing but shocking, from the board to some online 'hools'. Hungry, do you want a kiwi?! Yes, he's one the biggest characters in football, but in today's game everyone is a manager, everyone knows best, current championship winning manager not only out of work but treated like a fraud, utterly shambolic. But these belgians are holy, can't make this shit up. Blue_Fox_ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizy 19,377 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 11 minutes ago, Essien19 said: The big question is when not if the moaning 'how could we fire this man' will start. My guess is in 1-3 years we'll have a lot of new accounts in there and some Jose avatars. He'll make them great again, but congrats, the behaviour towards this legend has been nothing but shocking, from the board to some online 'hools'. Hungry, do you want a kiwi?! Yes, he's one the biggest characters in football, but in today's game everyone is a manager, everyone knows best, current championship winning manager not only out of work but treated like a fraud, utterly shambolic. But these belgians are holy, can't make this shit up. The moaning has a great chance of starting before the next season even begins if we see Mourinho signing players like Zlatan or Higuain or Stones or Pogba and our board stick to their penny pinching ways by just recalling some loanees or signing cheap, average players. I know I'd be moaning if that happens. Essien19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essien19 1,415 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 1 minute ago, Pizy said: The moaning has a great chance of starting before the next season even begins if we see Mourinho signing players like Zlatan or Higuain or Stones or Pogba and our board stick to their penny pinching ways by just recalling some loanees or signing cheap, average players. I know I'd be moaning if that happens. Come on, be more creative Jose buys Lukaku and he's banging in them in for fun, Costa's out of form again. That would make this place unbearable, again. Otherwise i agree with you, Jose will buy, the rats want trophies no matter what. Can see Higuain going there and that would be bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Fox_ 2,086 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, Essien19 said: The big question is when not if the moaning 'how could we fire this man' will start. My guess is in 1-3 years we'll have a lot of new accounts in there and some Jose avatars. He'll make them great again, but congrats, the behaviour towards this legend has been nothing but shocking, from the board to some online 'hools'. Hungry, do you want a kiwi?! Yes, he's one the biggest characters in football, but in today's game everyone is a manager, everyone knows best, current championship winning manager not only out of work but treated like a fraud, utterly shambolic. But these belgians are holy, can't make this shit up. Some of the comments about him are really fun though "Cheque book manager." or "At this level of football he amounts to nothing." between others. United are in a worse shape than us the way i see it, they need a major rebuilding in every area of the pitch, will be interesting to see if he sticks to 4-2-3-1 or will finally snap out of it, who will want to buy, so on and so forth. I expect a lot of the amateur managers on this board to suddenly disappear from this thread the moment he signs some major player, or maybe they will faintly moan "Cheque book manager." their faces green with envy. Oh, and the major meltdown the moment he will win another league title or other trophy will be fun to witness. Essien19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essien19 1,415 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Just now, Blue_Fox_ said: Some of the comments about him are really fun though "Cheque book manager." or "At this level of football he amounts to nothing." between others. United are in a worse shape than us the way i see it, they need a major rebuilding in every area of the pitch, will be interesting to see if he sticks to 4-2-3-1 or will finally snap out of it, who will want to buy, so on and so forth. I expect a lot of the amateur managers on this board to suddenly disappear from this thread the moment he signs some major player, or maybe they will faintly moan "Cheque book manager." their faces green with envy. Oh, and the major meltdown the moment he will win another league title or other trophy will be fun to witness. Quote .................Rooney/Rashford................... Martial.........Herrera........X..................... Schweinsteiger/Schneiderlin..........X Shaw........X............Smalling......Darmian .....................De Gea..................... I don't think that's too bad. Is that worse than what we have? I'm not convinced, mhh. They desperately need a new centre-back, dynamic midfielder and a very good right winger. And extra for Jose, there will be a new striker. Nothing you can't be for about ~150 quid. Apart from that, nicely put. But most of them won't confess, we all have to deal with what's coming. But great seeing Jose happy, deserves nothing less! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,754 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 So out of the original five piece that shaped our trophy laden 2004-2012 years (Jose, Cech, Terry, Lampard, Drogba) three have gone to rivals, smh what's wrong with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essien19 1,415 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 1 minute ago, Tomo said: So out of the original five piece that shaped our trophy laden 2004-2012 years (Jose, Cech, Terry, Lampard, Drogba) three have gone to rivals, smh what's wrong with them. Jose was fired, what do you expect? Cech had become superfluous because of younger blood and you have to respect his wishes, the man has a family. Lampard...no one knows what exactly happened, but City offered him the big bucks, can't really blame him for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Fox_ 2,086 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Essien19 said: I don't think that's too bad. Is that worse than what we have? I'm not convinced, mhh. They desperately need a new centre-back, dynamic midfielder and a very good right winger. And extra for Jose, there will be a new striker. Nothing you can't be for about ~150 quid. Apart from that, nicely put. But most of them won't confess, we all have to deal with what's coming. But great seeing Jose happy, deserves nothing less! I haven't watched United too often, but i've been surprised by Schneiderlin's ability to disappear from matches, Schweinsteiger has been an on and off, midfield-wise id' say they are about the same level as us and that's not flattering. I would say they have better players in defence than us, while we have a better attack, the difference between the two teams is not huge, but they could, just like us or worse, implode at any given moment. No doubt they'll be back in the top 4 next season with the right buys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,754 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 1 minute ago, Essien19 said: Jose was fired, what do you expect? Cech had become superfluous because of younger blood and you have to respect his wishes, the man has a family. Lampard...no one knows what exactly happened, but City offered him the big bucks, can't really blame him for that. Beckham was shafted by United but he never rocked up at Chelsea, Liverpool or City. When you create such a legacy at a club you should never join a rival in my opinion, if I played for Galatasaray never would I ever play for or manage Fenebache, I would rather hang up my boots, same way Simeone would never manage Real. It hurts a lot seeing players/managers that created such a big legacy go to rivals without a second thought, the class of 92 at United would have never have done that no matter what, heck even Liverpool's spice boys of Fowler, Gerrard, Mcmannaman, Carragher didn't (all be it the second one was tempted but he still didn't), Raul was deemed surplus to requirements at Real in 2010 but he didn't go Leti or Barca. It would have been one thing Essien, Carvalho, Malouda doing this, but for Cech, Lampard and Mou is horrendous. Fernando, Beigl and ChelseaFSee 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essien19 1,415 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 29 minutes ago, Blue_Fox_ said: I haven't watched United too often, but i've been surprised by Schneiderlin's ability to disappear from matches, Schweinsteiger has been an on and off, midfield-wise id' say they are about the same level as us and that's not flattering. I would say they have better players in defence than us, while we have a better attack, the difference between the two teams is not huge, but they could, just like us or worse, implode at any given moment. No doubt they'll be back in the top 4 next season with the right buys. I think some of the United players are seriously underperforming because of Van Gaal. You're an Italien, no way Darmian is this poor, perhaps you have seen him play against the Yids recently. For Italy he's playing much better, the start of the season gave us an idea what Darmian is all about. The same applies for Schneiderlin, whose ceiling is much higher, imo. Have you seen Lovren (also a former Saints player) play for Brendan and Klopp? A complete different player, so i have hope for Schneiderlin, maybe we can get him before he's good again, mhh. Honestly speaking i rate the United team higher, but i get where you're coming from, i can settle for that. 29 minutes ago, Tomo said: Beckham was shafted by United but he never rocked up at Chelsea, Liverpool or City. When you create such a legacy at a club you should never join a rival in my opinion, if I played for Galatasaray never would I ever play for or manage Fenebache, I would rather hang up my boots, same way Simeone would never manage Real. It hurts a lot seeing players/managers that created such a big legacy go to rivals without a second thought, the class of 92 at United would have never have done that no matter what, heck even Liverpool's spice boys of Fowler, Gerrard, Mcmannaman, Carragher didn't (all be it the second one was tempted but he still didn't), Raul was deemed surplus to requirements at Real in 2010 but he didn't go Leti or Barca. It would have been one thing Essien, Carvalho, Malouda doing this, but for Cech, Lampard and Mou is horrendous. I hear you! But today's game is different, way more selfish and most of them want the best deal. You only live once. That's a general problem in the world. I don't like when Lamps tried to hide what he's done, but when someone like Petr does it and says why, i can accept it. Nevertheless it's not a nice thing to get used to. Tomo, Blue_Fox_ and Fernando 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Sicarius 610 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 It will be, 3 season in UTD, is second he will reach title, and in third he will fight in second half of table : D That would be funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseafan26 293 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 6 hours ago, Tomo said: He was dreadful yesterday, no sugar coating that, although I don't no what else to expect playing him in a double pivot vs City, and we signed him knowing his defensive limitations. Howeveryou cannot ignore the creative side he brings to the table, he is an animal with even a cm of space, and hopefully, Conte can find ways to utilise that and hide his weaknesses. We have not scored for 2 games and I can not remember a moment of "creativity". Yesterday his only "creative" moment was a 40 yard ball to costa which otamendi let bounce and either of costa/pedro should have scored. Except for that can you remember him completing simple passes? Just look at the way Kdb ran past him. Do we really need such handicaps? Not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_volrath 61 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Blue_Fox_ said: Missed this man from the football scene so much! It just isn't the same without. How can you miss someone so toxic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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