The Mourinho Thread

[LAB 1,030]

Kick their asses on training Jose. The players need to understand their misery yesterday.

[Fernando 6,743]

The thing is, no one has been 'good enough'. Ranieri, Grant, Scolari, Ancelotti, AVB, RDM, Benitez. There is no manager that is visibly superior to Mou, looking at the results that is. So you can sack Mou, but it will be the same for any manager that takes over. Unless you get lucky and get someone who delivers instant and great succes.

Look at Barca. After Pep, they went with Tito. Not good enough. Then Martino. Not good enough. Now Enrique. Not good enough.. no wait, there's been a revival so let's give him some more time. If he does not win the title or CL, he'll probably not be good enough either.

Even though I'm not his biggest fan, it would probably be for the best to stick with Mou for the next 4-5 years. Unless there's some freakish decline of course, that goes without saying.

Ancelotti and Benitez have a case I think.

Carlo one good season and bad season.

Benitez hated by many but was not that bad.

Mourinho so far one good season and bad.

Giving the resources of Chelsea I have not seen nothing of greatness that some other manager cannot do.

Again giving the resources.

But I agree with you, there's no point sacking now.

It will be more of a concern if next season we are in the same situation.

By then we can say he will never learn as he's just stubborn.

[Tomo 21,754]

Ancelotti and Benitez have a case I think.

Carlo one good season and bad season.

Benitez hated by many but was not that bad.

Mourinho so far one good season and bad.

Giving the resources of Chelsea I have not seen nothing of greatness that some other manager cannot do.

Again giving the resources.

But I agree with you, there's no point sacking now.

It will be more of a concern if next season we are in the same situation.

By then we can say he will never learn as he's just stubborn.

This isn't Chelsea of 2005 anymore, his net spend since return has been £36m, in this current football market that is fuck all, and has managed to turn around an unbalanced mess of a squad into title material.

Would 'any' manager pull that off? not a chance, for perspective LVG got given a blank chequebook last summer and created an even bigger mess than what he inherited.

[didierforever 7,349]

Great point but your leaving something out.

Simeone Atletico and klopp budget ain't the same as Chelsea.

If you should be comparing us then it should be to City pellegrini as we are in the same category.

And in that view Mourinho will have achieved exactly the same thing pellegrini did last season.

Carling cup, Premier League and last 16...

what budget? are u kidding me?

we have a net spend of 42mil pounds in the last 2 years under jose (thorgan not included).

bvb have a net spend of 66.7 mil euros.

now just tell me what percentage of ATM's goals this season have been thru open plays and set pieces. whenever i have watched atm this season, they hav been woeful (except against RM) and generally have had to rely on the set piece dominance. whats worse is simeone and jose are very much alike in their approach to the game. i saw both of ATM's latest games against valencia and sevilla and anyone who is complaining about jose being negative would not even have mentioned simeone as a replacement.

classic case of people just wanting something different even if its no where near as good.

ps - compared to us city have had a net spend of 125mil pounds. almost thrice our sum. city had a proper set team compared to ours which was in transition. well, comparing jose and pelegrini is one of the worst things u can do here.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

Thinking the same. I got no problems with a bit of bus parking and counter attacking. But if we want to do so why not set up for this. Play a compact, counter-oriented system like last season vs Mancity away in the league. apart from the dismal finishing, that was a blueprint of modern football. pace, power and lightning transition. After the arrivals of Remy and Cuadrado we are even better equipped for that.

My theory is that mourinho does not even want us to look like parking the bus all the fuckin time, but it is more of a necessity. OUr defense is rather slow and immobile hence playing deep hence our midfielders keep tracking back all the way hence our attacks start from too deep with too knackered players and the opposition have time to defend. When was the last time we actually scored from a counter attack? we have a defender who can't defend (ivanovic) but is ok at attacking who needs to be covered by an attacker who can't attack.This alone would be kafkaesque enough. But it goes further. Our so called no.10 is more of a disguised DM who has to cover for the real no10 playing at DM because he needs spaceor the game in front of him or whatever. That leaves our only two players with the license and ability to actually score, Costa and Hazard.

My take is that we should simply get some Chelsea quality defenders in so our attackers can actually attack instead of spending the whole match defending around the corner flag to cover up for some defensively inept full- and centrebacks.

Nailed on. It all starts from defenders.

I'd rant here long but I see a couple quality posts. While it shit that we didn't take advantage of the situation and hugely favourable referee, we simply were set up not to lose. Players don't know what to do when they have a result and are at upper hand. Counter-attack, positional attack it's non-existing. Chaotic press, players don't know who to pick to press. And I don't see contrasts with this display to many, many others this season and season before. I wrote after final vs Spurs, that we're stepping on a very thin line between the defeat and glory. We relies hugely on luck, rebound, set piece. And you know what ? We had that luck yesterday, we scored 2 goals out of thin air, didn't deserve them a one bit but we weren't as lucky at the other end of the pitch like we often are. Let's be honest, we would lose against Man City (away), West Ham, both legs vs Liverpool especially at home, Spurs if we didn't have that luck. But we did. Of course people want to play blind game and somehow they don't see things when we win, they tell to shut up when you have something to say. For me it wouldn't change a one bit if we progress or not, the performance is the same and I think we would need 2012 coincidence to even dream of reaching the final. I was very relaxed yesterday, even after Thiago Silva goal, first time in my life I don't have that regression after going out of this competition. We aren't ready for Europe, far from it.

I'd tell bad words towards Mourinho but I repeat my words after Spurs game (which we won, but it was very similar to this game, which we lose) - it still isn't Mourinho team. Over half of this squad wasn't bought by him in his second spell. He can play beautiful with proper counter-attacking football, with efficient pressing, with intensity. Everything we're lacking I saw that his teams can have .Let him pick his players in the summer. Let him do "Inter 2009" all over again. Remember that ? He went out of the Champions League in the last 16 to Man Utd, he then sat down with Moriatti and had a deep conversation what this team lacks at the moment, then he bought in the summer Lucio, Thiago Motta, Sneijder, Milito and Eto'o. 5 players who were crucial to winning the treble. Let him do that again. Wrap up this title in this season, finish this campaign on a high and give him resources in the summer. After all, don't know if you remember, he wanted to sign Tiago and Sneijder last summer so it's surely indicates that he isn't blind but see that we're lacking things, starting in defence. I am sure he will do the right things, who if not him ?

[Fernando 6,743]

what budget? are u kidding me?

we have a net spend of 42mil pounds in the last 2 years under jose (thorgan not included).

bvb have a net spend of 66.7 mil euros.

now just tell me what percentage of ATM's goals this season have been thru open plays and set pieces. whenever i have watched atm this season, they hav been woeful (except against RM) and generally have had to rely on the set piece dominance. whats worse is simeone and jose are very much alike in their approach to the game. i saw both of ATM's latest games against valencia and sevilla and anyone who is complaining about jose being negative would not even have mentioned simeone as a replacement.

classic case of people just wanting something different even if its no where near as good.

ps - compared to us city have had a net spend of 125mil pounds. almost thrice our sum. city had a proper set team compared to ours which was in transition. well, comparing jose and pelegrini is one of the worst things u can do here.

This isn't Chelsea of 2005 anymore, his net spend since return has been £36m, in this current football market that is fuck all, and has managed to turn around an unbalanced mess of a squad into title material.

Would 'any' manager pull that off? not a chance, for perspective LVG got given a blank chequebook last summer and created an even bigger mess than what he inherited.

Well if you guys going on about Net spend, I think that's what Real Madrid has been doing as of late.

Buy and then sell.

Di Maria recently, Ozil last season.

But it's still not the same comparing that with A. Madrid and Dortmund.

I still say you have to compare us with City, Real Madrid and such that have big budget and assets.

[iseah100 5,612]

Spend 100m on defenders this summer. Varane-Boateng?

[didierforever 7,349]

Well if you guys going on about Net spend, I think that's what Real Madrid has been doing as of late.

Buy and then sell.

Di Maria recently, Ozil last season.

But it's still not the same comparing that with A. Madrid and Dortmund.

I still say you have to compare us with City, Real Madrid and such that have big budget and assets.

credit where its due. RM have done that and they have done it very well. you have to take into account selling their best player of last season (ADM) to buy james. if they had not sold ADM, they would not have been in this current mess. similarly we sold the likes of KDB, to get the players we wanted, why should that be neglected? why should the sale of luiz be neglected who would have been far better for this current system than GC!!! net spend is the correct way to look at things. bvb have a greater net spend than us, and city have a triple net spend than us for the same area despite the fact that pelegrini acquired a squad which was already winning titles compared to ours which was a mess.

[Tomo 21,754]

Well if you guys going on about Net spend, I think that's what Real Madrid has been doing as of late.

Buy and then sell.

Di Maria recently, Ozil last season.

But it's still not the same comparing that with A. Madrid and Dortmund.

I still say you have to compare us with City, Real Madrid and such that have big budget and assets.

Yes but it's still hard to turn things around on little net spend, Real already had a top team with top player's so swapping one for the other isn't too difficult compared to the task Jose had.

He/the board managed to sell unwanted player's for high prices and use the money to bring in player's he wanted, he inherited an absolute state of a squad and turned us into serious title contenders.

Jose also has previous for this, took over at Porto with them in a mess and won 4 trophies in two years with a negative net spend.

[iseah100 5,612]

People think he can't play attacking football?remember that historic RM team?

[mediator 2,026]

Spend 100m on defenders this summer. Varane-Boateng?

Varane + Zouma would be just fine

[ZOS 580]

I wonder why people consider counter-attacking as a tactic/style... does it mean teams who likes to have more possession and take a positive approach to a game doesn't counter? what stops teams like that of bayern and barcelona from being as good at it as those who claim to implement it as a tactic? how do you plan to implement counter attacking as plan-A when you're not even sure if the other team wants to attack at all?

I think 'counter attacking style' just a fancy name for parking the bus.

[iseah100 5,612]

I wonder why people consider counter-attacking as a tactic/style... does it mean teams who likes to have more possession and take a positive approach to a game doesn't counter? what stops teams like that of bayern and barcelona from being as good at it as those who claim to implement it as a tactic? how do you plan to implement counter attacking as plan-A when you're not even sure if the other team wants to attack at all?

I think 'counter attacking style' just a fancy name for parking the bus.

Real countered and set a record for goals scored.

[ZOS 580]

Real countered and set a record for goals scored.

If Real scored most of those goals by countering, it must be because teams were over-committing to attack Real. why would anyone other than Barcelona do that? ... certainly BPL teams wouldn't.

[Pseudo 92]

If Real scored most of those goals by countering, it must be because teams were over-committing to attack Real. why would anyone other than Barcelona do that? ... certainly BPL teams wouldn't.

La Liga team's play proactive football so they played right in to Jose's hands. But remember what happened the season after that? Teams started to defend deeper and Madrid struggled to break them down. If the opposition scored first they were screwed.

They threw away the league to an average Barcelona side because they were too one dimensional.

[Roquila 1,335]

I really am confused.

One day I absolutely LOVE Jose and the other day i just hate him.

He has done great things for us and I will always be thankful for that.

Problem is, with the team we have we shouldn't be so dreadful against a slightly better opposition than the likes of Tottenham. It's always the same, play for a 1-0, park the bus, you name it.

One day one of the big clubs (real , bayern , barca) will be knocking on the door and players like Hazard will bite their hands off because they dont enjoy this kind of style we are playing and i can totally understand that.

Jose, for the sake of the club, players and fans, please EVOLVE.

[Fernando 6,743]

credit where its due. RM have done that and they have done it very well. you have to take into account selling their best player of last season (ADM) to buy james. if they had not sold ADM, they would not have been in this current mess. similarly we sold the likes of KDB, to get the players we wanted, why should that be neglected? why should the sale of luiz be neglected who would have been far better for this current system than GC!!! net spend is the correct way to look at things. bvb have a greater net spend than us, and city have a triple net spend than us for the same area despite the fact that pelegrini acquired a squad which was already winning titles compared to ours which was a mess.

Yes you make a great point but something about it doesn't sit right.

It seems weird that we should compare such budgets with that of a lowly Dortmund,even if your talking about net spend. Because we spend a lot of money on young talent.

Like I said you have a good point but something just doesn't sit right....

[darrus 422]

Wanted to enter this discussion whole morning just to come home and find my apartment robbed, which put things into a bit of perspective. Perspective - that's all we need in those situations Peace all and let's win the PL and then we'll see.

[The Chels 2,502]

Nailed on. It all starts from defenders.

I'd rant here long but I see a couple quality posts. While it shit that we didn't take advantage of the situation and hugely favourable referee, we simply were set up not to lose. Players don't know what to do when they have a result and are at upper hand. Counter-attack, positional attack it's non-existing. Chaotic press, players don't know who to pick to press. And I don't see contrasts with this display to many, many others this season and season before. I wrote after final vs Spurs, that we're stepping on a very thin line between the defeat and glory. We relies hugely on luck, rebound, set piece. And you know what ? We had that luck yesterday, we scored 2 goals out of thin air, didn't deserve them a one bit but we weren't as lucky at the other end of the pitch like we often are. Let's be honest, we would lose against Man City (away), West Ham, both legs vs Liverpool especially at home, Spurs if we didn't have that luck. But we did. Of course people want to play blind game and somehow they don't see things when we win, they tell to shut up when you have something to say. For me it wouldn't change a one bit if we progress or not, the performance is the same and I think we would need 2012 coincidence to even dream of reaching the final. I was very relaxed yesterday, even after Thiago Silva goal, first time in my life I don't have that regression after going out of this competition. We aren't ready for Europe, far from it.

I'd tell bad words towards Mourinho but I repeat my words after Spurs game (which we won, but it was very similar to this game, which we lose) - it still isn't Mourinho team. Over half of this squad wasn't bought by him in his second spell. He can play beautiful with proper counter-attacking football, with efficient pressing, with intensity. Everything we're lacking I saw that his teams can have .Let him pick his players in the summer. Let him do "Inter 2009" all over again. Remember that ? He went out of the Champions League in the last 16 to Man Utd, he then sat down with Moriatti and had a deep conversation what this team lacks at the moment, then he bought in the summer Lucio, Thiago Motta, Sneijder, Milito and Eto'o. 5 players who were crucial to winning the treble. Let him do that again. Wrap up this title in this season, finish this campaign on a high and give him resources in the summer. After all, don't know if you remember, he wanted to sign Tiago and Sneijder last summer so it's surely indicates that he isn't blind but see that we're lacking things, starting in defence. I am sure he will do the right things, who if not him ?

I completely agree with the first paragragh but I'm not so sure about the second. How many of the first 11 players does Jose not really consider one of 'his' players? I'd argue very few (if any) even if he didn't buy them all. Last year he kept talking about how it was all about 'next year' and that we would have a phenomenal team. Well here we are 'next year' and we've actually regressed significantly in the big games/CL.

I've been moaning about the issues you mention (disorganised pressing, huge gaps, poor transitions, relying on luck) for a while because it was obvious it would prove costly in the CL. I think a lot of fans want us to dominate possession and constantly be on the front foot in the big games. Personally I was never expecting that because that's not Jose's style. I would be more than happy if we just showed some intensity off the ball and if we showed that we were defensively solid. The way we just allow the opposition to move into dangerous positions, the willingness to allow crosses in (even if it's causing mayhem at the back) and the number of times we allow big gaps to develop is what I consider most disappointing. Cech/Courtois have been our MOTM far too often. The part of Jose's game which is supposed to be his strongest (organising defensive systems) has been letting him down and we've seen the same amateruish mistakes repeated all season.

The bottom line is that our attacking play in the big games has been almost non-existent this season but we've still somehow taken the lead in pretty much all of them. If we knew how to defend a lead properly (defensively solid, play on the counter as the opposition becomes more desperate) then the performances would not look anywhere near as bad come the end of the game. Being unable to attack well is poor, being unable to defend well is poor, being unable to do either is horrific.

[ZOS 580]

La Liga team's play proactive football so they played right in to Jose's hands. But remember what happened the season after that? Teams started to defend deeper and Madrid struggled to break them down. If the opposition scored first they were screwed.

They threw away the league to an average Bar a side because they were too one dimensional.

That's why 'counter-attacking' shouldn't be considered as a 'tactic' for it is too dependent on the rival. Its more of a quality a team has to take advantage of a certain situation ... like any other quality such as defending, pressing, possession recycling etc.