Petr Cech

[zolayes 14,489]

had my say ..leave it to the two to keep banging their drums.

[The only place to be 11,313]

1) The point is, we don't have to suffer like united did because we have an experienced world-class goal keeper who can still be our number one until Thibaut is ready.

But you just said for Courtois to get a chance Cech has to suffer an injury (like Cudicini did). How else does he win a spot? Seriously? Do they take it in turns?

It's a faulty premise you've got there.

2) For a season, yes. He won't make a career of it. He's still very young and will have to fight to make a name for himself wherever he goes.

No true again. He could go to a couple of top clubs and be number one immediately. Barca is a case in point as Valdes is out of contract and it would be unlikely for them to go after Reina too. He is an established national keeper.

3) Don't avoid the point, you know as well as I do that had we had Courtois and not Cech we would not have won neither the CL nor the FA cup and we would not have been able to qualify to the CL and we would not have bought the likes of Hazard and Oscar and our current squad would not have been the same. Of course Courtois can be a good first choice keeper at a top club but he's just not the best in the world atm, Cech is and the above example is how much difference that can make.

No, I don't know that and neither do you. It's an unknowable. Do you know the unknowable? Are you tapped into some kind of Schrodinger-esque alternate dimension?

Cech is one of the best, but Courtois isn't far behind. I don't think we lose anything in terms of points or progression in cups by substituting Courtois for Cech, and certainly not as much as we'd lose by having two keepers for one spot or selling one of the brightest talents in European football.

had my say ..leave it to the two to keep banging their drums.

You made a fairly ridiculous point that didn't pertain to the modern era or the club game - don't cry about it when people challenge your points in a fair manner.

Grow up.

[bushman 2,043]

had my say ..leave it to the two to keep banging their drums.

Your say is well appreciated. We all need to wait & see. Courtois has too much to offer & he won´t sit idle.

[Stats 6,988]

He won't have a guaranteed start anywhere he goes. Even at Athletico he had to fight for his spot with Asenjo.

Well Asenjo is a good keeper but Courtois always had that no.1 shirt from the moment he arrived. Asenjo was good but the fact that they agreed to loan him from us and we refused to send him back on loan the Belgium league, realistically he was always going to be no.1 there.

[bushman 2,043]

According to the Daily Star if reliable, the Catalan giants have already made an enquiry into bringing Cech to the team.

Jose faces a real challenge here.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

1) But you just said for Courtois to get a chance Cech has to suffer an injury (like Cudicini did). How else does he win a spot? Seriously? Do they take it in turns?

It's a faulty premise you've got there.

2) No true again. He could go to a couple of top clubs and be number one immediately. Barca is a case in point as Valdes is out of contract and it would be unlikely for them to go after Reina too. He is an established national keeper.

3) No, I don't know that and neither do you. It's an unknowable. Do you know the unknowable? Are you tapped into some kind of Schrodinger-esque alternate dimension?

Cech is one of the best, but Courtois isn't far behind. I don't think we lose anything in terms of points or progression in cups by substituting Courtois for Cech, and certainly not as much as we'd lose by having two keepers for one spot or selling one of the brightest talents in European football.

1) He will get his chances in the Carling and FA cups and some CL group matches and when Cech is injured or needs resting. That is more than enough. If he puts on performances that are better than Petr, he gets the spot. He also has all the time in the world to out-perform Petr in training.

2) And how do you know Barcelona won't buy a second keeper with Courtois to challenge him? No one gets a guaranteed spot at a top team. Every professional knows he has to fight for his place. It's not just for keepers. All players come to a bigger club to prove how good they are. Managers challenge players, if you think you are better than the players we have, come here, prove it and get the starting spot. That's the same reason why Andre Schurrle, MVG, Willian..etc moved here.

3) LOL you can joke around the subject all you want but everyone knows that you put any keeper in the world instead of Petr Cech in the 2011-12 season and we would not have won the CL. That's the difference between the best in the world and "not far behind".

Well Asenjo is a good keeper but Courtois always had that no.1 shirt from the moment he arrived. Asenjo was good but the fact that they agreed to loan him from us and we refused to send him back on loan the Belgium league, realistically he was always going to be no.1 there.

Asenjo was as highly rated as Thibaut was when he moved to Athletico and if Asenjo has been better than Thibaut in training he would have gotten the starting spot. Every manager chooses who he thinks is the best player. It's that simple.

[Stats 6,988]

1) He will get his chances in the Carling and FA cups and some CL group matches and when Cech is injured or needs resting. That is more than enough. If he puts on performances that are better than Petr, he gets the spot. He also has all the time in the world to out-perform Petr in training.

2) And how do you know Barcelona won't buy a second keeper with Courtois to challenge him? No one gets a guaranteed spot at a top team. Every professional knows he has to fight for his place. It's not just for keepers. All players come to a bigger club to prove how good they are. Managers challenge players, if you think you are better than the players we have, come here, prove it and get the starting spot. That's the same reason why Andre Schurrle, MVG, Willian..etc moved here.

3) LOL you can joke around the subject all you want but everyone knows that you put any keeper in the world instead of Petr Cech in the 2011-12 season and we would not have won the CL. That's the difference between the best in the world and "not far behind".

I have always praised Cech for what he done in the UCL winning season but Courtois has done the same thing. When they won the Copa del Ray he was simply fantastic and was the reason they won the trophy. Courtois is an excellent keeper and it is really hard to say if he would of done this and that because he has already done his share to guide Atletico to trophies.

Also if Courtois went Barca he would no doubt be the undisputed no.1. Especially with the amount I hear they are prepared to spend on him however I see your angle but if they buy Courtois as a replacement for Valdes they are sorted.

[bushman 2,043]

How do we get it across here, that Courtois is not & won´t bother to come over to Chelsea to play in FA or the odd game ?

That to me is even a bigger challenge than Jose will face next year ?

[didierforever 7,349]

Courtois has already played more games for Atletico than De Gea had. By the end of the season he will have played about twice as many.

He's an international keeper already. He's won European trophies and will have CL experience this season as well. He might also have World Cup experience.

So what he really needs is to prove himself against Swindon on a Tuesday night and then maybe a CL game 6 night against Nordsjaellend before sitting on his arse until the first week in January for an away trip to Colchester. Only then will we know he's ready because we couldn't dare risk him in a league game where every point matters.

The most ideal thing for the club is having ONE keeper. ONE voice. ONE leader in that position. Consistency in that position is key.

de gea had 84 appearances for ATM in 2 seasons before coming to manchester united. atm is the same team courtois is playing for at the moment and the hype surrounding each seems to be the same. in 2011-12 his flipping flopping the ball cost united a number of points. and in the end united lost the league of GOAL DIFFERENCE.

the most ideal thing for the club is to do what is right for the club not one player. only the future can not be taken into consideration but the present matters too. next year CHELSEA will not only be competing for the PL but without a doubt we will be the heads on favourite to win the thing, so every point does matter and undue risk should be and without a doubt will be avoided.

[The only place to be 11,313]

1) He will get his chances in the Carling and FA cups and some CL group matches and when Cech is injured or needs resting. That is more than enough. If he puts on performances that are better than Petr, he gets the spot. He also has all the time in the world to out-perform Petr in training.

So he gets a game against Swindon (or similar), a game or two after Christmas and maybe a cup run, and dead rubbers (games which don't count) in the CL to prove he's ready to play week-in and week-out?

I don't believe even you believe that's true because you know a bit about how football works.

2) And how do you know Barcelona won't buy a second keeper with Courtois to challenge him? No one gets a guaranteed spot at a top team. Every professional knows he has to fight for his place. It's not just for keepers. All players come to a bigger club to prove how good they are. Managers challenge players, if you think you are better than the players we have, come here, prove it and get the starting spot. That's the same reason why Andre Schurrle, MVG, Willian..etc moved here.

Barca could spend £20 million+ on Courtois and then buy a second keeper to challenge him. I just think it's unlikely.

Again, let's be realistic otherwise what's the point?

3) LOL you can joke around the subject all you want but everyone knows that you put any keeper in the world instead of Petr Cech in the 2011-12 season and we would not have won the CL. That's the difference between the best in the world and "not far behind".

I don't know that though. I'm fairly arrogant, but not to the extent that I'd say with any certainty what would've happened in the 2012 season.

Personally though, I'd prefer to stick to talking about the future. It's unknowable as well, but in a far more exciting way.

Asenjo was as highly rated as Thibaut was when he moved to Athletico and if Asenjo has been better than Thibaut in training he would have gotten the starting spot. Every manager chooses who he thinks is the best player. It's that simple.

I'm sorry, but keepers don't win positions in training. Cech didn't - he got LUCKY because Cudicini got injured.

You're asking Courtois to give up on CL football and glory to take a chance on Cech being injured or for Mourinho to be so impressed by his performance against Torquay United in a League Cup game that he decides to make him number one?

If you were Courtois, Courtois's agent, his friend, his father or just someone who liked him would you advise him to do that?

[The only place to be 11,313]

de gea had 84 appearances for ATM in 2 seasons before coming to manchester united. atm is the same team courtois is playing for at the moment and the hype surrounding each seems to be the same. in 2011-12 his flipping flopping the ball cost united a number of points. and in the end united lost the league of GOAL DIFFERENCE.

Courtois is better. Talk to any Atletico fan.

the most ideal thing for the club is to do what is right for the club not one player. only the future can not be taken into consideration but the present matters too. next year CHELSEA will not only be competing for the PL but without a doubt we will be the heads on favourite to win the thing, so every point does matter and undue risk should be and without a doubt will be avoided.

So when do we go with Courtois? Another season? Maybe another after that?

At some point you've got to piss or get off the pot. If you're saying to me right now Courtois isn't good enough for a top European team to compete on all fronts, then I'll leave the discussion.

Is that what you're saying?

[zolayes 14,489]

But you just said for Courtois to get a chance Cech has to suffer an injury (like Cudicini did). How else does he win a spot? Seriously? Do they take it in turns?

It's a faulty premise you've got there.

No true again. He could go to a couple of top clubs and be number one immediately. Barca is a case in point as Valdes is out of contract and it would be unlikely for them to go after Reina too. He is an established national keeper.

No, I don't know that and neither do you. It's an unknowable. Do you know the unknowable? Are you tapped into some kind of Schrodinger-esque alternate dimension?

Cech is one of the best, but Courtois isn't far behind. I don't think we lose anything in terms of points or progression in cups by substituting Courtois for Cech, and certainly not as much as we'd lose by having two keepers for one spot or selling one of the brightest talents in European football.

You made a fairly ridiculous point that didn't pertain to the modern era or the club game - don't cry about it when people challenge your points in a fair manner.

Grow up.

the first insulting post I have seen in two days ...well done

[bushman 2,043]

Courtois is more than ready to play in CL, PL or any top competition & he knows it.

Within 2-3 years this kid is the best goalie in the world, I feel.

That´s why Barca will pay 25-30m for him, anytime if sold.

[didierforever 7,349]

Courtois is better. Talk to any Atletico fan.

So when do we go with Courtois? Another season? Maybe another after that?

At some point you've got to piss or get off the pot. If you're saying to me right now Courtois isn't good enough for a top European team to compete on all fronts, then I'll leave the discussion.

Is that what you're saying?

did i say that ever? what do you read? your own version of any1's post.

read all my posts again. read the one with what alex wrote about cech being better than courtois and my reply to it.

courtois might be ready to be the no.1 GK but we already have THE WORLD'S BEST GK PLAYING FOR US. u dont discard that. if cech goes next season, he would go to a direct competitor like barca or in the worst case united/arsenal. plus we would be playing with a yet untested GK at the highest of the highest levels.

i have already given my answer to "when do we go to courtois" and an ideal scenario of how to break courtois into the team and i doubt i can be any clear about it.

infact anyone who thinks that courtois is going to be our no.1 GK next season is going to be in for a big suprise.

[Stats 6,988]

did i say that ever? what do you read? your own version of any1's post.

read all my posts again. read the one with what alex wrote about cech being better than courtois and my reply to it.

courtois might be ready to be the no.1 GK but we already have THE WORLD'S BEST GK PLAYING FOR US. u dont discard that. if cech goes next season, he would go to a direct competitor like barca or in the worst case united/arsenal. plus we would be playing with a yet untested GK at the highest of the highest levels.

i have already given my answer to "when do we go to courtois" and an ideal scenario of how to break courtois into the team and i doubt i can be any clear about it.

infact anyone who thinks that courtois is going to be our no.1 GK next season is going to be in for a big suprise.

I doubt he will but knowing Mourinho, he is is not afraid to make bold decisions. However your point about Courtois, I agree but for me the best resolution then is to go out on loan rather than stay on the bench. It may be a continuous cycle but he is getting game time and a keeper in the caliber of Courtois deserves to be starting regularly.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I have always praised Cech for what he done in the UCL winning season but Courtois has done the same thing. When they won the Copa del Ray he was simply fantastic and was the reason they won the trophy. Courtois is an excellent keeper and it is really hard to say if he would of done this and that because he has already done his share to guide Atletico to trophies.

Also if Courtois went Barca he would no doubt be the undisputed no.1. Especially with the amount I hear they are prepared to spend on him however I see your angle but if they buy Courtois as a replacement for Valdes they are sorted.

Courtois had a great game in the Copa Del Ray final, but that doesn't even compare to Cech's performances in the CL. There is no denying that he is capable of the amazing but it's just how often can he do it and with what consistency. In that cup final game, he made two stunning saves: one an incredible recovery save from Ozil after he had miss-judged the cross and the second, I can't remember from whom. But can he do the 10+ incredible saves that Cech did against Barcelona over two legs? Or go the right way for 6 pens saving three of them?

Let's look at the recent Super games. In the European super, Cehc kept on making amazing saves fro 30 minutes of extra time. In the Spanish super, Thibaut made a couple of excellent saves, then let a very soft Neymar goal in. That's the difference.

1) So he gets a game against Swindon (or similar), a game or two after Christmas and maybe a cup run, and dead rubbers (games which don't count) in the CL to prove he's ready to play week-in and week-out?

I don't believe even you believe that's true because you know a bit about how football works.

2) Barca could spend £20 million+ on Courtois and then buy a second keeper to challenge him. I just think it's unlikely.

Again, let's be realistic otherwise what's the point?

3) I don't know that though. I'm fairly arrogant, but not to the extent that I'd say with any certainty what would've happened in the 2012 season.

Personally though, I'd prefer to stick to talking about the future. It's unknowable as well, but in a far more exciting way.

4) I'm sorry, but keepers don't win positions in training. Cech didn't - he got LUCKY because Cudicini got injured.

You're asking Courtois to give up on CL football and glory to take a chance on Cech being injured or for Mourinho to be so impressed by his performance against Torquay United in a League Cup game that he decides to make him number one?

If you were Courtois, Courtois's agent, his friend, his father or just someone who liked him would you advise him to do that?

1) Why ever not? He will get games and if he proves to be good enough he'll get more games until he becomes first choice.

2) De Gea and Lindergard.

3) Haha you're quite a dancer and I personally have never been able to dance. I've made my point very clear about this and no amount of dancing will change that you can objectively say that we would not have won the CL without Petr Cech. And that's just the most important example, I can give plenty more examples.

4) Nonsense. Keepers win their positions in training all the time. I just gave the example of Thibaut himself winning the first spot at Athletico in training.

This is really what it all comes down to. If he wants to play for Chelsea he will have to come here and prove his worth. Again, just like Schurrle moved from a main role at Leverkusen who are also in the CL to a smaller role here so he can have a chance to prove his worth and be first choice at a top club like Chelsea. This is what all professionals have to do.

[bushman 2,043]

Is really Courtois untested as indicated above ?

Personally, he has been tested well & proved himself admirably.

[didierforever 7,349]

I doubt he will but knowing Mourinho, he is is not afraid to make bold decisions. However your point about Courtois, I agree but for me the best resolution then is to go out on loan rather than stay on the bench. It may be a continuous cycle but he is getting game time and a keeper in the caliber of Courtois deserves to be starting regularly.

makes sense. also i think this is the most PROBABLE solution for the next season.

for the next season, the scenarios are (in decreasing order of probability)

1. cech no.1, thibaut on loan

2. cech no.1, thibaut no.2

3. thibaut no.1 , cech sold.

but on a personal level,i would want the no.2 to happen.