🇪🇸 Cesc Fàbregas

[Leif 6,006]

If you take current Fabregas and plop him into the starting XI of Juventus, Barcelona or Bayern, the top teams of the moment & the past 5 years, they'd improve. Real are the only team who can't make space for him.

How is it that the best teams on earth, and every other team then surely, would play better with Fabregas onboard? They'd play better on the pitch, which is a +1, and at least maintain their current win/loss rate if not improve.

Because those teams unlike ours, are consistent in identifying who is/isn't starting XI material, an area in which we lack, resulting in Fabregas almost always playing with round blocks in square holes, and other players unperforming with him because of the same drawbacks, which affect each player to a different extent clearly.

He's a great playmaker, and no great playmaker would do well (as we've seen) with the systems we've been deploying.

Here are players who, in my opinion, were known for their passing, or were at least considered to be very solid playmakers, who then declined in that aspect once with us (in some instances to then move on, and explode): Mata, De Bruyne, Hazard (he had outstanding technique at Lille which is evidently limited right now), Salah, Willian, Fabregas. 

All attack-minded players who showed far better playmaking abilities before/after their stint with us. All of those players would be better in those teams I listed, which shows we're behind, and not ready to fully support the developments of such talented individuals (further proven by our loan system; why isn't Musonda here?)

The problem has never been the players, it has always been the systems, the management of the players, and the inconsistent player-manager-owner power.

We do not provide the environment for a player to play at his fullest potential. Fabregas will only make us miss him if he leaves, and no replacement we can bring in would be able to provide consistency better than what he can.

 

Fab for president. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by Leif

[the wes 7,212]

2 hours ago, Leif said:

I'm confused. None of us are blind, and we're all good at simplifying players and their strengths/weaknesses. So, why on earth aren't we saying, hey, this guy has the exact same skillset Pirlo had, and the same weaknesses, so let's err, play him in Pirlo's position considering we're essentially using the formation he played in. 

Kante & Matic is ENOUGH defensive power for a midfield. With Fabregas BEHIND them, there is no pressure on him to be some defensive wiz, and he gets complete freedom on the ball with protection all around him, instead of being chased down by anyone with legs and not having the pace to turn away. 

He is still a great player, better than good, and it's silly to suggest he's no longer a main player before trying him in his best position. (This super deep Pirlo position is where he played during his best Arsenal days, no?) 

I agree what your saying but u would need to change the formation till 3-5-2 to fit fabregas in but we are playing so well playing the 3-4-3 formation a system fabregas would struggle in 

[Leif 6,006]

I'll add, if Messi went to Juventus, Bayern, even Madrid or City, you'd be confident of him producing the Suarez or Aguero-like stats & performances we've seen.

Here at Chelsea? Bahaha. I don't think any of us believe we would properly accomodate him. He would not do too well. So that's my theoretical example that a player isn't necessarily bad, but the club, is actually riddled with even more problems than seems so.

This is worth the wordcount, since once Fabregas moves on, it'll suddenly be 'oh, he's among the top 10 playmakers on earth still, he'd be a bit handy.' We need to appreciate what we've got and use more scrutiny to see the real underperformers. A lot of people need shipped out sooner than Fabregas, and if they were, I doubt he'd be considered as someone we'd want to lose.

[Leif 6,006]

If the foundations of a house are not properly in place, all sorts of mess will happen, windows and doors will start falling off eventually. Do you blame the windows and the doors for being past it? 

[the wes 7,212]

51 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

Id upgrade Pedro in a heartbeat Never been overly impressed.

Snap mate Mahrez or Brahimi would nice upgrade from Pedro 

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

2 hours ago, Leif said:

I'm confused. None of us are blind, and we're all good at simplifying players and their strengths/weaknesses. So, why on earth aren't we saying, hey, this guy has the exact same skillset Pirlo had, and the same weaknesses, so let's err, play him in Pirlo's position considering we're essentially using the formation he played in. 

Kante & Matic is ENOUGH defensive power for a midfield. With Fabregas BEHIND them, there is no pressure on him to be some defensive wiz, and he gets complete freedom on the ball with protection all around him, instead of being chased down by anyone with legs and not having the pace to turn away. 

He is still a great player, better than good, and it's silly to suggest he's no longer a main player before trying him in his best position. (This super deep Pirlo position is where he played during his best Arsenal days, no?) 

I've been saying this too.

I'm sure that Conte's thought of it though.  Not sure why he hasn't tried it out.  I would have thought that the League Cup was the place to give it a go.  But, he did not (obviously).

[Captain Ahmed 528]

*CF4

 

[the wes 7,212]

Chelsea want to loan out midfielder Cesc Fabregas, 29, in January. (Times - subscription required)

[Pizy 18,909]

Before its decided that he needs to go, I'd at least like to see him in a midfield 3 with Kante and Matic. Even if it's just against the likes of Hull, West Brom, Sunderland, and the rest of the relegation fodder. Surely he'd have enough protection.

I just can't imagine any of the small teams in the PL would be able to deal with a midfield with he, Kante, and Matic in it. Cesc would almost be completely free to ping it around.

Hopefully he's fully fit soon so we can give it a shot.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

2 hours ago, Pizy said:

Before its decided that he needs to go, I'd at least like to see him in a midfield 3 with Kante and Matic. Even if it's just against the likes of Hull, West Brom, Sunderland, and the rest of the relegation fodder. Surely he'd have enough protection.

I just can't imagine any of the small teams in the PL would be able to deal with a midfield with he, Kante, and Matic in it. Cesc would almost be completely free to ping it around.

Hopefully he's fully fit soon so we can give it a shot.

And who would move to the bench? Pedro? Moses? Alonso?

They might not have the creativity, but they are quicker and unlike Cesc, they put pressure on opponents. 

Unless we go back to worse (which i hope wont happen), I dont see Cesc anywhere near first 11. 

He had lot of time to improve, but he cant be faster, more agile, more tenacious. Its just not what he is. Creativity alone is simply not enough in PL. He might be able to pull of Pirlo role in italy, but not here. 

And even then, Pirlo was brilliant under pressure, while Cesc is actualy very very poor. And that makes him weak link. Much like Oscar or current Ivanovic. I hope Conte sticks to this plan of keeping them on bench.

They are good to have on bench tho and if they want to help the team, they must accept bench role. If not, they can go because for 1st 11, name is just not enough. 

[manpe 10,861]

6 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

And who would move to the bench? Pedro? Moses? Alonso?

Pedro. 3-5-2. Free role to Hazard to roam around.

Azpi - Luiz - Cahill

Moses - Kante - Fabregas - Matic - Alonso

Costa - Hazard

 

Worth a shot in a low pressure game imo. Until then no need to fix what isn't broken and better to stick with 3-4-3 with the usual line-up.

[Fernando 6,585]

2 hours ago, manpe said:

Pedro. 3-5-2. Free role to Hazard to roam around.

Azpi - Luiz - Cahill

Moses - Kante - Fabregas - Matic - Alonso

Costa - Hazard

 

Worth a shot in a low pressure game imo. Until then no need to fix what isn't broken and better to stick with 3-4-3 with the usual line-up.

I think for that team someone like modric would be amazing . But now we just need to wait and see who we can get to replace Fabregas because we definitely will need that creative mind down the road . 

[Pizy 18,909]

9 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

And who would move to the bench? Pedro? Moses? Alonso?

They might not have the creativity, but they are quicker and unlike Cesc, they put pressure on opponents. 

Unless we go back to worse (which i hope wont happen), I dont see Cesc anywhere near first 11. 

He had lot of time to improve, but he cant be faster, more agile, more tenacious. Its just not what he is. Creativity alone is simply not enough in PL. He might be able to pull of Pirlo role in italy, but not here. 

And even then, Pirlo was brilliant under pressure, while Cesc is actualy very very poor. And that makes him weak link. Much like Oscar or current Ivanovic. I hope Conte sticks to this plan of keeping them on bench.

They are good to have on bench tho and if they want to help the team, they must accept bench role. If not, they can go because for 1st 11, name is just not enough. 

Like manpe said, I'd try him in place of Pedro/Willian but only if it's against an "easy" opponent. No way I'd risk him starting against a City/Liverpool/Arsenal at this point.

If we have someone like Burnley or any one of these sides who will just sit back and park the bus with little quality in the middle of the pitch Cesc should thrive. He's still lethal when he has time and space to dictate the tempo of the game.

[manpe 10,861]

4 minutes ago, Pizy said:

Like manpe said, I'd try him in place of Pedro/Willian but only if it's against an "easy" opponent. No way I'd risk him starting against a City/Liverpool/Arsenal at this point.

If we have someone like Burnley or any one of these sides who will just sit back and park the bus with little quality in the middle of the pitch Cesc should thrive. He's still lethal when he has time and space to dictate the tempo of the game.

Not to mention the form Diego is in, he would gobble up his passes all night long.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

4 hours ago, manpe said:

Pedro. 3-5-2. Free role to Hazard to roam around.

Azpi - Luiz - Cahill

Moses - Kante - Fabregas - Matic - Alonso

Costa - Hazard

 

Worth a shot in a low pressure game imo. Until then no need to fix what isn't broken and better to stick with 3-4-3 with the usual line-up.

I agree with this.  I'd like to see it too.  It's a shame that he wasn't fit before the EFL cup match.

I'd like to see it before we deem him surplus to requirements (anyone want Kenedy or Baba back as cover for Alonso?).

[DYC. 7,542]

I think people underestimate the importance of the shape. Moving to a 3-5-2 exposes you a lot more on the flanks defensively while it makes you more predictable when attacking. I'm not saying it won't work but there is absolutely no need to force Fabregas into the side because the team is functioning well. When Barca bought Fabregas he was initially forced into the team by Guardiola as well. But it messed up the balance and shape and he was eventually dropped. The team was stronger without him in it. While Pedro and Willian aren't flashy and can be frustrating on the ball, they play an important part to form the strong unit we are currently witnessing. That trumps the occasional individual brilliance Fabregas can provide right now.

What I would like to see is Conte continuing using him as an impact sub like he did earlier in the season. He proved very useful in that role. There hasn't been a need for him in recent weeks so his absence makes sense. Fabregas, Willian/Pedro and hopefully Batshuayi could provide Chelsea with some potent weapons off the bench. Something we haven't been lucky enough to have in the team in a long, long time.

[El P. 1,354]

12 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

And who would move to the bench? Pedro? Moses? Alonso?

They might not have the creativity, but they are quicker and unlike Cesc, they put pressure on opponents. 

Unless we go back to worse (which i hope wont happen), I dont see Cesc anywhere near first 11. 

He had lot of time to improve, but he cant be faster, more agile, more tenacious. Its just not what he is. Creativity alone is simply not enough in PL. He might be able to pull of Pirlo role in italy, but not here. 

And even then, Pirlo was brilliant under pressure, while Cesc is actualy very very poor. And that makes him weak link. Much like Oscar or current Ivanovic. I hope Conte sticks to this plan of keeping them on bench.

They are good to have on bench tho and if they want to help the team, they must accept bench role. If not, they can go because for 1st 11, name is just not enough. 

This. How can anyone even compare Pirlo with Fabregas is beyond me. Pirlo is God, my friends. Pirlo, Xavi, etc. Fabregas is nowhere near that level, and never was.

Pirlo was good in 3-5-2 because he has godly good technique in all aspects of creative game, and he played in Serie A.

Fabregas is one very overrated player.

[Adnane 1,101]

Cesc can only dream of Andrea's ball protection and technique, crucial skills for that particular "Pirlo" role in Conte's initial 3-5-2. 

I do think we're 20 times better without Cesc in the team, at least the actual Cesc, he has always been slow and sloppy, add 10 years of intense football to that and he's just past it, still has the casual brilliant pass in him but that's about it, can't compromise my team 85 minutes out of 90 just to afford that occasional moment. 

[DYC. 7,542]

1 hour ago, El P. said:

This. How can anyone even compare Pirlo with Fabregas is beyond me. Pirlo is God, my friends. Pirlo, Xavi, etc. Fabregas is nowhere near that level, and never was.

Pirlo was good in 3-5-2 because he has godly good technique in all aspects of creative game, and he played in Serie A.

Fabregas is one very overrated player.

Pirlo was a top, top player but the influence of Marchisio and Vidal on his ability to shine for Juve can not be underestimated. When you talk about genuinely all-round midfielders, offensively and defensively, and not lacking in any area (especially back then when they were a bit younger and in prime physical shape), those two were right up there. Allowing Pirlo to leave turned out to be big a mistake on Milan's side but the decision to let him go at the time was not nearly as outrageous as many make it out to be. Pirlo wasn't performing like a top player for Milan for a few years and the drop of quality around him in midfield played a big part in that. Less protection made him a lot more vulnerable and a lot less decisive. Vidal and Marchisio played major factors in his revival.

I disagree with the notion of him being brilliant under pressure btw. Pirlo was always vulnerable under pressure. Not like Fabregas but still. It's the reason why he played so deep. What set Pirlo apart and made him crucial and world-class despite his weaknesses was his prowess from set-pieces.

[El P. 1,354]

17 minutes ago, DYC. said:

Pirlo was a top, top player but the influence of Marchisio and Vidal on his ability to shine for Juve can not be underestimated. When you talk about genuinely all-round midfielders, offensively and defensively, and not lacking in any area (especially back then when they were a bit younger and in prime physical shape), those two were right up there. Allowing him to leave turned out to be big a mistake on Milan's side but the decision to let him go was not nearly as outrageous as many make it out to be. Pirlo wasn't performing like a top player for Milan for a few years and the drop of quality around him in midfield played a big part in that. Less protection made him a lot more vulnerable. Vidal and Marchisio played major factors in his revival.

I disagree with the notion of him being brilliant under pressure btw. Pirlo was always vulnerable under pressure. Not like Fabregas but still. It's the reason why he played so deep. What set Pirlo apart and made him crucial and world-class despite his weaknesses was his prowess from set-pieces.

I could agree that Pirlo had a lot of protection (Vidal-Marchisio / Gattuso-Seedorf-Ambrosini), but I don't think Pirlo and Fabregas were ever at the nearly same level.

Fabregas, with the same amount of protection, would still not be close to Pirlo, IMO.