No.10 Role

[FabHazard 655]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sZnRP_AcBi4

[Jack Uzzi 54]

Why would you want to sideline your best player of the last two years. Imho Mata should be the first player on the sheet and that can actually be in different positions.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

I don't think it's a matter of who's better, but rather a matter of inability; that is Mata's inability to play the number ten role that Jose wants in the team right now. The role has changed immensely since last season under Rafa where we were basically playing a 4-4-1-1 with Mata as a second striker.

First, Jose wants the number ten to play like a central midfielder in defense. He wants the 4-2-3-1 to turn into 4-3-3 in defense. Mata cannot do that, he doesn't have the physical strength, nor the defensive abilities to do so. Jose also wants the #10 to be the player chases the ball and put pressure on the opposition's deepest midfielder.

Secondly, and I'm really surprised that this has not been mentioned because, for me, this is the most important aspect, Jose wants the number ten to drop to receive the ball and then be the one that moves the ball to the wings or strikers. Last season, all Mata had to do was sit in the final third and wait for the ball to come to him. He can't drop and link-up with the pivot and fullbacks like Jose wants because he's very uncomfortable with his back to goal. The mistake which led to the corner that Basel scored from is an example of that. Last season, our biggest issue imo was our inability to move the ball from defense to attack and playing Oscar in the #10 role practically solves that.That's why, for me, he has to be first choice.

As for Mata, I think he will need to play on the wing. Yes, he doesn't have the pace to be effective there on the counter attack, but most of our games we will be dominating possession and he could be vital for the team by providing a creative spark. On the left wing, he is capable of proving some much needed width in some games. Oscar and KDB should be our two number tens, imo.

And as for Jose's comments, he knows exactly what he's doing. He's trying to motivate Mata who is a professional and will only try to work harder because of those comments.

Oh, and can we pleeease stop putting Oscar (and KDB for that matter) in the pivot for goodness' sake?! This isn't FIFA, players don't have perfect movement off the ball even if they're playing out of position. You can't squeeze all out AMs into the same formation, so please stop trying to.

Sums up the entire predicament.

But i still feel De Bruyne in the pivot can invoke a new perspective than Rami. You'll never know.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I think Di Matteo handled our current squad best from the AVB, Benitez and Mou.

He tried to suit our style to the players not the other way around and if he only had that striker and CDM we were crying for everything would look different.

And about that "pace" bullshit. I think too many people play FIFA these days to realize you don't have to be a fucking Ferrari to go past players. Do you know a certain Frank Lampard? Sneijder? Xavi?

Mata is still our best player and instead of making him better Mou is trying to shift him out.

Mourinho is trying to make him adapt to his style of play.

The problem with Di matteo's handling is that you play your tactics because of one player, if the player breaks his foot. The coach will have no game plan again.

How would you feel if you are employed as a coach and instead of using your knowledge to coach, you are forced to throw it all out of the window because one player in the team doesnt like it.

Mata is the one that needs to adapt for the team. Mourinho is not going to throw away 14 years of his coaching style to satisfy mata to play behind the striker and not defend.

Mourinho has his own style (team football) mata will adapt his game to fit this team style mourinho wants

[Cech's helmet 220]

I think Di Matteo handled our current squad best from the AVB, Benitez and Mou.

He tried to suit our style to the players not the other way around and if he only had that striker and CDM we were crying for everything would look different.

And about that "pace" bullshit. I think too many people play FIFA these days to realize you don't have to be a fucking Ferrari to go past players. Do you know a certain Frank Lampard? Sneijder? Xavi?

Mata is still our best player and instead of making him better Mou is trying to shift him out.

I have to agree about the Di Matteo part. everyone loved him, everyone played for him, we were a happy squad, we had spirit, thats why we won the champions league with that thin squad. the goal is to keep your players happy, Mou has been here for 2 months, and we already have this whole Mata fiasco.

You don't go out in the press and say " Oscar is my no10" "I don't want Oscar to be chasing fullbacks" talk about double standards... Mou has got it all wrong from the start. sorry but if this was Rafa or AVB we would be slashing them. just because it's Mou doesn't mean he's always right. he's wrong. go ask any football fan and you'll see who's the better no10 between Oscar and Mata.

It's a shame we have to go through this, we really shouldn't be making a "vs" thread between 2 of our players. Mou should bring us together, and its been 4 games and we the fans already are divided. exactly what happened in Madrid is going to happen here if Jose puts his ego ahead of the club.

You don't criticize the best player in the last 2 seasons and a fan favorite publicly after whats he done to us. Mou is not respecting Mata. respect is a 2 side thing.

[Tomo 21,733]

I have to agree about the Di Matteo part. everyone loved him, everyone played for him,

Maybe in his interim spell, but things were hardly rosy when he got the job full time.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

It's a shame we have to go through this, we really shouldn't be making a "vs" thread between 2 of our players. Mou should bring us together, and its been 4 games and we the fans already are divided. exactly what happened in Madrid is going to happy here if Jose puts his ego ahead of the club.

At least we dont have players who put their ego's ahead of the team like casillas and ramos or are you suggesting mata has that kind of attitude??

[Jcar92 66]

I don't think it's a matter of who's better, but rather a matter of inability; that is Mata's inability to play the number ten role that Jose wants in the team right now. The role has changed immensely since last season under Rafa where we were basically playing a 4-4-1-1 with Mata as a second striker.

First, Jose wants the number ten to play like a central midfielder in defense. He wants the 4-2-3-1 to turn into 4-3-3 in defense. Mata cannot do that, he doesn't have the physical strength, nor the defensive abilities to do so. Jose also wants the #10 to be the player chases the ball and put pressure on the opposition's deepest midfielder.

Secondly, and I'm really surprised that this has not been mentioned because, for me, this is the most important aspect, Jose wants the number ten to drop to receive the ball and then be the one that moves the ball to the wings or strikers. Last season, all Mata had to do was sit in the final third and wait for the ball to come to him. He can't drop and link-up with the pivot and fullbacks like Jose wants because he's very uncomfortable with his back to goal. The mistake which led to the corner that Basel scored from is an example of that. Last season, our biggest issue imo was our inability to move the ball from defense to attack and playing Oscar in the #10 role practically solves that.That's why, for me, he has to be first choice.

As for Mata, I think he will need to play on the wing. Yes, he doesn't have the pace to be effective there on the counter attack, but most of our games we will be dominating possession and he could be vital for the team by providing a creative spark. On the left wing, he is capable of proving some much needed width in some games. Oscar and KDB should be our two number tens, imo.

And as for Jose's comments, he knows exactly what he's doing. He's trying to motivate Mata who is a professional and will only try to work harder because of those comments.

Oh, and can we pleeease stop putting Oscar (and KDB for that matter) in the pivot for goodness' sake?! This isn't FIFA, players don't have perfect movement off the ball even if they're playing out of position. You can't squeeze all out AMs into the same formation, so please stop trying to.

"Mata cannot do that, he doesn't have the physical strength" Iniesta and Xavi are strong?

"strength, nor the defensive abilities to do so." Bayern Midfield at times Schweinsteiger(pivot)-kroos-Thiago(pivot). They aren't strong, fast or defensive... I talked more about this in this topic.

"Jose wants the number ten to drop to receive the ball and then be the one that moves the ball to the wings or strikers" Did you think that for watching Oscar playing or by actually listening to Mourinho's words? Because if It's by the first... It is just one of the characteristics of Oscar. He drops deep all the time to have more time and space to think the game(he is bad at receiving the ball with his back towards the goal) just like in Brazil with Internacional and São Paulo, with the NT and now Chelsea.

"He can't drop and link-up with the pivot and fullbacks like Jose wants because he's very uncomfortable with his back to goal." LOL WHAT? Where do you think that one will receive the ball with his backs to the goal in the majority of times? Deeper with least(fewer or least?)defensive players, with more space, in the start of plays and far away of the defenders... Or at the CAM position in which you are up front and have to look to your own field and goal in order to receive a pass, in which you have good defenders at your back crazy to take the ball and you are the key player?

"This isn't FIFA, players don't have perfect movement off the ball even if they're playing out of position. You can't squeeze all out AMs into the same formation, so please stop trying to." Well, Pep tried it at bayern... Lahm and thiago at pivot and Martinez at CB. It isn't impossible, why not try the DLP? Schweinsteiger started as a fullback, then side midfielder and then DLP(pivot). We'll never know if we don't try... And Hell, Oscar drops deeper by himself... He even play better at it. He is a DLP.

[Zoro 151]

Mata is the better number 10 hands down. Its not even a competition.

[Cech's helmet 220]

At least we dont have players who put their ego's ahead of the team like casillas and ramos or are you suggesting mata has that kind of attitude??

No player in this team puts his ego ahead of the team, and it's always been the case in this club. this is why we are known for our "never give up" spirit. we always have a happy squad. but right now, Jose is putting himself in an awkward position. every freaking football journalist/fan out there is shocked that Mata is not starting in his well earned no10 role. a playmaker who scored 21 goals and has over 30 assists is going to be benched? where is the respect? Jose created a problem out of nothing. I have no idea why he doesn't fancy Mata, but it's bizzare to think there is nothing going on.

[Jcar92 66]

No player in this team puts his ego ahead of the team, and it's always been the case in this club. this is why we are known for our "never give up" spirit. we always have a happy squad. but right now, Jose is putting himself in an awkward position. every freaking football journalist/fan out there is shocked that Mata is not starting in his well earned no10 role. a playmaker who scored 21 goals and has over 30 assists is going to be benched? where is the respect? Jose created a problem out of nothing. I have no idea why he doesn't fancy Mata, but it's bizzare to think there is nothing going on.

Actually in Brazil, Chelsea is know as a Team that had strong little groups of players in the team that would take down coachs and players that they don't liked(felipao, deco and others). Especially any coach that would not put the players with more time at the club. I'm not saying that is the truth, but i also heard the same from friends from Japan(have cousins there, I'm half japanese =] ).

Edit: Oh, you didnt say in the world... Oh well, so it may be just in Brazil anyway, who cares? xD

[Melanicus 5,208]

My Madrid friend said this is actually a good sign. He said Jose did the same thing to Ozil and Benzema. And he’s likely going to turn Mata into a Di Maria… But better because Mata is better. Do you remember the quotes from Jose early on when he said he’s hardest on the best players? They have to work harder and prove more to him than the others. I think (hope) that’s what’s happening here. Jose can see what Mata contributes. He’s not daft and I’m sure the club values Mata immensely particularly after last season. This is a work in progress and I suspect Mata knows too… Keep the faith and watch Mata prove his worth.

Jose showed Ozil a lot of tough love, basically made him play as a holding mid for a few weeks to better his game for the best interests of the team. That made Ozil a much better, more rounded player and I expect a similar situation with Mata. Seeing the media (and even some of you) make these claims about Jose not rating/liking Mata is getting real old. Trust Jose, he knows how fantastic Mata is and just wants to get the best out of him.

[IliyaDamyanov 43]

we should trust Jose , he knows what is the best for the team.....but I don't agree with him .

-------------------Ramires (as DM ) - Oscar-----------------------
-------------RW----------------Mata---------------------Hazard-------------
-----------------------------------ST--------------------------------------------

best team available for us . Oscar in the pivot as a playmaker will be perfect and we will have one DM on the field . I'm sorry but neither Van Gingel or Mikel are the best option for the CM . Oscar is playing very well in defence and we could use his and Ramires speed and finally we will have somebody who knows what to do with the ball . Perfect team for me !!!!

[kellzfresh 7,229]

No player in this team puts his ego ahead of the team, and it's always been the case in this club. this is why we are known for our "never give up" spirit. we always have a happy squad. but right now, Jose is putting himself in an awkward position. every freaking football journalist/fan out there is shocked that Mata is not starting in his well earned no10 role. a playmaker who scored 21 goals and has over 30 assists is going to be benched? where is the respect? Jose created a problem out of nothing. I have no idea why he doesn't fancy Mata, but it's bizzare to think there is nothing going on.

Thats what your not getting. Mata scored and made those assists in benitez style. Mata didnt score all those goals when mourinho was the coach. So mata has to prove himself to mourinho in his system.

I'm glad mata doesnt have a soft giving up mind like most of us think here. So he'll fight and adapt to mourinho's system sooner than we all think.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

My Madrid friend said this is actually a good sign. He said Jose did the same thing to Ozil and Benzema. And he’s likely going to turn Mata into a Di Maria… But better because Mata is better. Do you remember the quotes from Jose early on when he said he’s hardest on the best players? They have to work harder and prove more to him than the others. I think (hope) that’s what’s happening here. Jose can see what Mata contributes. He’s not daft and I’m sure the club values Mata immensely particularly after last season. This is a work in progress and I suspect Mata knows too… Keep the faith and watch Mata prove his worth.

Jose showed Ozil a lot of tough love, basically made him play as a holding mid for a few weeks to better his game for the best interests of the team. That made Ozil a much better, more rounded player and I expect a similar situation with Mata. Seeing the media (and even some of you) make these claims about Jose not rating/liking Mata is getting real old. Trust Jose, he knows how fantastic Mata is and just wants to get the best out of him.

This is what im saying, he's trying to raise mata's game and our fickle fans have fallen into the trap of the media. Embarrassing

[NishC300 1,865]

I must confess I'm rather confused.

I fail to understand what people mean by Mata doesn't perform in the big games. Last season, he destroyed Manchester United (the 'Champions') in every game he played, I'm sorry but doesn't Chelsea-United count as a big game for you. He performed superbly against Arsenal in both fixtures and had a brilliant game vs Spurs. He scored a brilliant goal to get us 3 points at Carrow Road. Scored against Everton last season and was good in the home fixture vs Shaktar. He consistently performed incredibly. If Mata is that bad people, then why are other teams dying to get their hands on him?

This work rate thing is being taken against Mata a lot, it's as though it's the only important thing. Moreover, I'm also wondering why we spent 30 mil on a #10 when we already have one like Mata. Willian doesn't possess the greatest work rate from what I know (I might be wrong so please correct me). So when this playmaker you people regard as unworthy of starting for Chelsea purely cos of work rate (i.e Mata) is bad, then why Willian? Have you not seen that Mata is the most intelligent player in the league (ofc it's Ozil now) and has brilliant passing vision. He can drift in beautiful long balls which I must say nobody in our team is currently capable of doing.

So then the question is why did we waste these 30 mil on Willian when we have Mata? Should we not have brought in a winger (as Ballack pointed on Sky that we have too many of the same players). True, you could argue that these days there aren't too many genuine wingers these days, but for 30 mil I guess we could find someone who provides width.If Arsenal managed to get Ozil of RM, would it have been possible for us to get Di Maria, which would possibly have resulted in RM not selling Ozil to Arsenal?

Then I hear the other thing, that these days it is the job of the full backs to provide the width for a team and not the wingers. Then the questions is why do we have Ivanovic and Cole playing at full back if it is their job to provide width? Surely we should have bought an attacking-minded full back (or maybe even let Wallace stay?). So if the full backs are supposed to provide the width then why aren't we using Azpilicueta and Bertrand since they are technically superior and have more pace. IMO Mata is still useful for us and now this Willian signing is starting to feel rather confusing to me.

Very tricky. This really is a weird dilemma.

[NishC300 1,865]

Sorry, I agree with these guys

[Stingray 9,441]

can we pleeease stop putting Oscar (and KDB for that matter) in the pivot for goodness' sake

Wel Oscar, ok!

But Kevin actually layed in attacking pivot role and I personally think he is good at it - even with to potential to be better there than on the flanks. So it is really not a FIFA thing, it is just that a lot on here haven't seen him play there and think it would be a mistake.

Imo he could take the role Lamps now has (so he doesn't have to play all the games).

On the Mata Oscar subject I will refrain from commenting because I don't like the question, especially with the 'versus'. Mta is great, Oscar is great - they have a different skill set and can be used accordingly. If one doesn't fit in the system - that is very well possible. Mou indeed expects a 10 to drop deep and that real is Oscars game. If it is more operating between the lines of the final third - then Mata (when confident/fit) is simply class.

It is all about choices really and NOT about who is best. I compare it to evolutionary adaptations really: organisms are adapted for a certain ecosystem, so they thrive in that ecosystem (e.g.. the elephant ears to cool the animal down). however, put an ice bear in Central Africa and he imply wouldn't make it - despite being such a fierce predator.

Key is when and in what tactical setup is one of the two the best 'fit'. Right now, that seems to be Oscar - but there will be games we need Mata. That is the reason why I want him nurtured a bit more. Still, as so often this can be an attempt to tickle the player and hope for a positive counterreaction. - which can backfire as well.