Why Are We Playing 4-2-3-1?

[bushman 2,043]

We don't have the right players for 4-2-3-1 as we don't have an actual playmaker or DM at the moment (Romeu injured, Mikel ACON). 4-3-3 is a better system for keeping possession and its much more balanced than the 4-2-3-1.

A 4-3-3 with an inverted MF 3 might work but still effectively a 4-2-3-1 really.

Rami---------Mikel

-----------------------

--------Mata--------

Well, I doubt it.

If we do not have the right players for 4-2-3-1, then does Rafa knows about it ?

Somewhere along the line I read Rafa was instrumental in inventing 4-2-3-1 in Spain.

However,I am not sure of it.

[OneMoSalah 8,889]

Well, I doubt it.

If we do not have the right players for 4-2-3-1, then does Rafa knows about it ?

Somewhere along the line I read Rafa was instrumental in inventing 4-2-3-1 in Spain.

However,I am not sure of it.

Instrumental in inventing it? I doubt it, it is just a varied 4-4-1-1, it was about before Rafa was. Anyway, he used it a lot yes. Valencia, Liverpool and Inter during his reigns were all 4-2-3-1 and so is Chelsea. Its his preferred formation obviously.

Ideally in the pivot you want a player next to your holding MF who can build and control the game from deep but who can still provide killer passes when chances are there, spray the ball into space in wide areas to move teams about etc. and right now we don't have such a player.

If you look at Modric's stats from the season before that summer we wanted him, never really got a lot of assists and goals but was the most important player in that Spurs team because he was dropping deep getting the ball into players in space who then got assists. We need a player similar to him.

[bushman 2,043]

Instrumental in inventing it? I doubt it, it is just a varied 4-4-1-1, it was about before Rafa was. Anyway, he used it a lot yes. Valencia, Liverpool and Inter during his reigns were all 4-2-3-1 and so is Chelsea. Its his preferred formation obviously.

Ideally in the pivot you want a player next to your holding MF who can build and control the game from deep but who can still provide killer passes when chances are there, spray the ball into space in wide areas to move teams about etc. and right now we don't have such a player.

If you look at Modric's stats from the season before that summer we wanted him, never really got a lot of assists and goals but was the most important player in that Spurs team because he was dropping deep getting the ball into players in space who then got assists. We need a player similar to him.

Sometimes, I do wonder whether he knows any other formations. Last night, he stuck shitty Torres to play a bit wider.

Why not play with two strikers instead ?

[OneMoSalah 8,889]

Sometimes, I do wonder whether he knows any other formations. Last night, he stuck shitty Torres to play a bit wider.

Why not play with two strikers instead ?

Because Soton were played a 4-3-3 I think and going 4-4-2 gives them an extra man in midfield, even if they were playing 4-2-3-1 it gives them an extra man if their AM drops. 4-4-2 is also better suited to a more direct approach which we were only trying at like the 89th minute.

[Jase 43,479]

Sometimes, I do wonder whether he knows any other formations. Last night, he stuck shitty Torres to play a bit wider.

Why not play with two strikers instead ?

He did actually switch to 4-4-2 eventually. Can see that with Ba and Torres upfront, Mata and Hazard wide and we were just lumping the ball forward to bypass Southampton's midfield.

[bushman 2,043]

He did actually switch to 4-4-2 eventually. Can see that with Ba and Torres upfront, Mata and Hazard wide and we were just lumping the ball forward to bypass Southampton's midfield.

He did ? I saw Torres plucking away wide, then.

Anyway, our striking force is not adequate. Take a look at Manu 4 striking options. No wonder they are scoring in bunches.

The way I see it. Rafa might not be the ideal coach & he is going soon. However, the team is too thin in my view. So much wastefulness is seen. Many of Chelsea´s youths are playing elsewhere.

[SeB 1,281]

Well, I doubt it.

If we do not have the right players for 4-2-3-1, then does Rafa knows about it ?

Somewhere along the line I read Rafa was instrumental in inventing 4-2-3-1 in Spain.

However,I am not sure of it.

He was one of the first to use it on a regular basis in Spain in the 90s indeed. That's his favourite system and that's also the only one we can play at the moment due to the amount of options we have in the squad: 3 reliable options at CM -> you can't play a system with more than 2 CM

[communicate 2,703]

Here's what he did yesterday on how Madrid has to cope with Ronaldo's lack of defensive work against Valencia. That's exactly our case this season with Mata/Hazard

What's funny when we think about Chelsea's situation until December is that on both flanks, nobody tracked back and there was no Modric to drop as additional third midfielder. And still people blamed the defence for poor defending !!

That's exactly what I was saying over and over again in the summer and how I knew we'd make a shit season

I think rb prefer to defend with 442 with st and am to close down high up . I actually saw oscar and hazard tried to track back even though their defending are just awful.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

In answer to this topic in a really blunt fashion: we are playing 4-2-3-1 because Benitez is a clueless prick who is too scared to change his system.

With the players we have, we should be playing 4-1-4-1, in my opinion. Granted it would be a narrow midfield as Mata and Hazard like to play centrally, but that is no real change as our natural width is supplied by the full-backs.

Essentially this is the same system we played under Ancelotti, but with an obvious change in personnel. Under Carlo the wide players offered more width which explains why we were then a better side offensively. However, it is the same principle:

Under Ancelotti:

Cech

Belletti/Ivanovic - Carvalho/Alex - Terry - Cole/Zhirkov

Mikel/Essien

Kalou/Joe Cole/Anelka - Essien/Joe Cole - Lampard/Ballack - Malouda/Zhirkov

Drogba/Anelka

Under Benitez:

Cech

Dave/Ivanovic - Cahill/Ivanovic - Terry/Luiz - Cole/Bertrand

Luiz/Mikel

Hazard/Moses - Lampard/Oscar - Ramires - Mata/Bertrand

Ba/Torres

When you consider the change since 2009, player-for-player, there isn't that much difference, besides the new 'wide' players being narrower. Essentially you can almost see it as a diamond:

Mikel - Ramires

Hazard - Mata

Lampard

The ability to switch between a flat-back midfield four with Mikel deeper, playing a five-man diamond, or even pushing the wingers up on into a 4-3-3 enables versatility. It makes sense, Rafa.

[Funkyflashman 187]

I really hate the 4231 and the obsession that comes with it.

Increasingly fed up

[zolayes 14,489]

I would like to see us show much more variety ,,,even 3 5 2 or 3 4 3 ,,, both much more attacking

[Leif 6,006]

Wanna know how to sort some of our problems? Here you go:

We must switch to a 4-3-2-1.

Why? Well -

Mikel flourishes (heh) as a sole defensive midfielder. He clearly feels awkward playing with a partner. So he'd play deep in the midfield '3' much like in a 4-3-3.

Now Ramires can slot back into his best position, RCM, where he is bursting with energy and can run all over the pitch, doing as he pleases (within reason).

Lampard or whoever can take up a more stable and rooted position at LCM, doing both attacking and defensive work. But of course, my plan would be implemented next season, meaning there might not even be a Lampard! (De Bruyne, anyone?) Assuming we sign a deep-playmaker such as Benat who can also do defensive work, he'll slot into Mikel's role, Ramires remains, and then we need another player bursting with energy in the LCM role to protect Benat (or whoever). Again, De Bruyne could fill this role quite well while also adding another top-passer to the team.

So, that's the midfield sorted. (Well, in one way. There's so many options with a formation like this!!)

The '2' would of course be Hazard + Mata. However, instead of Hazard's current inverted winger role and Mata's advanced-attacking-midfielder role, they'd both act as inside forwards-come-playmakers behind the lone striker. This means both players are closer together, which will result in more 'magic' and interchanging in roles. They'd typically play slightly deeper than the position Mata currently occupies unless we're up against some minnows. I feel that if you're too close to the lone-striker you can't pick him out with as much precision. Both players pushing too far up with the striker would leave the 3 players behind them too exposed to long-balls.

So, you're probably thinking - "Are you CRAZY!? This formation would be too narrow! Who would track back!?". Ah, so naive.

With Hazard & Mata in more central roles, they'll still be able to drift out wide and create a standard 4-3-3 when needed. When the 4-3-2-1 is in place however, yes, we need width both for attacking and defending. A few seasons ago, Cole would be perfect for this. Now? Not so much. Do you know who is perfect however? Baines. He has the best crossing accuracy out of all players in the top 5 leagues this season, he tracks back well after attacking, can take set-pieces and is a reliable, solid option. On the right, Azpi can continue to grow and develop and hopefully become a permanent fixture there; marauding forward yet instilling defensive soundness. This would probably also suit Bertrand a bit more as he does like to (try) whipping in a decent cross when there's no-one ahead of him.

For the more cautious games where the team will line-up in a 4-3-3, it would make more sense to drop Mata completely (depending on the scenario), sticking Hazard out left and having Moses coming in on the right. (Yep, that's right. In this formation Mata won't be an untouchable!)

Ivanovic or Azpi can then go on the right for the full-back position.

This formation, with 3 deep players in midfield instead of the current 2 means the defense will be much more protected AND there'll be more close-by passing options. This means less running around for Terry and less need to maraud forward for Luiz!

As for the striker, we'd need someone who's not afraid to close down the opponents, otherwise they'll build up from the back and try to exploit the lack of width compared to other formations. Falcao is a big no-no. Cavani is a big yes-yes. Lukaku would also thrive in this set-up I feel.

This formation would be quite contrasting to what we've usually had. It's very much an attacking formation with (potentially) Baines, Azpi, Hazard, Mata & the striker all attacking while De Bruyne also likes to get forward a bit, as does Ramires. Discipline in roles would need to be restored so players don't get carried away.

Voila.

Note: If you ever saw Milan's 4-3-2-1, I believe Kaka and Seedorf were in the '2' roles I'm talking about. Kaka was a genuine goal-threat, often more-so than the striker. This is the role I'm expecting from Hazard while Mata would be in the more disciplined Seedorf role.

[Mundaka 243]

Under Benitez:

Luiz/Mikel

For our linkup play i would only consider Luiz tho in that situation, especially if oscar is not playing.

[zolayes 14,489]

He did actually switch to 4-4-2 eventually. Can see that with Ba and Torres upfront, Mata and Hazard wide and we were just lumping the ball forward to bypass Southampton's midfield.

Déjà vu. Different players but same tactics ..if you can call hooting it forward a tactic

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

Pellegrini's 4-2-2-2 looks perfect for our team.

---------------Lewandowski-Hazard-----------------

----------------Mata------Oscar---------------

--------------Moutinho-----Witsel---------------

Cole--------Terry-------Luiz--------Azpi

--------------------Cech---------------------

[5354 204]

we do have a player who can spread the ball well... its lampard. lol

[Joe Cool 388]

we do have a player who can spread the ball well... its lampard. lol

Not particularly. He disappears in big games nowadays and lacks the vision/discipline of players like Xavi, Pirlo, or Alonso, which is why he fares so poorly in the pivot. It was a lot better for him when we played in the 4-3-3, because that gave him much more freedom to get forward due to the two other central midfielders covering. If we're to use the 4-2-3-1 effectively, we need to get an actual creator in midfield

[Funkyflashman 187]

Pellegrini's 4-2-2-2 looks perfect for our team.

---------------Lewandowski-Hazard-----------------

----------------Mata------Oscar---------------

--------------Moutinho-----Witsel---------------

Cole--------Terry-------Luiz--------Azpi

--------------------Cech---------------------

4222 looks good for THIS team. Crucially though, this isn't our team. Glad I could clarify

[Rmpr 8,977]

Viola.

LOOOOL! :lol2:

[kellzfresh 7,229]

There's nothing wrong with the formation, what's wrong though is the players we lack for it. 4231 needs a midfield creator and two fast people on the wings. Bayern, dortmund and realmadrid all use this formation and they are in the semifinals of the champs league.